Movie

[KennySe]

Mel Gibson had about 30 theologians as advisors in the script writing process.

 

[thereselittleflower]

It is more than a fairly bold statement. Too much of tradition is WRONG.

Hi Symes

Too much of what kind of tradition? There are 3 kinds, Sacred Tradition, Ecclesial tradtions, and man-made traditions.

Which are you referring to?

Peace in Him!

 

[Symes]

Hi Symes

Too much of what kind of tradition? There are 3 kinds, Sacred Tradition, Ecclesial tradtions, and man-made traditions.

Which are you referring to?

Peace in Him!

Any tradition that goes against anything in the Bible is wrong.

You cannot have the Bible saying one thing and tradition saying another.

Under those circumstances tradition is wrong.

 

[Symes]

My biggest hope for this film is that it might help unite Christians across denominational boundaries, which are man-made.

Now that would be just great if it did take place.

Let me assure you all that it will not.

It will be a case of those who have been convicted by the film following what it says.

That is the Roman Catholic way of salvation, it is following Mary, it boils down to a lot of tradition that does not follow the Bible.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Now that would be just great if it did take place.

Let me assure you all that it will not.

It will be a case of those who have been convicted by the film following what it says.

That is the Roman Catholic way of salvation, it is following Mary, it boils down to a lot of tradition that does not follow the Bible.

Symes

Do you realize you are breaking the rules of CF by making such baseless allegations against the Catholic Church?

What you have posted against the Catholic Church demonstrates to me that you really know very little to nothing about the Roman Catholic Church, what we really believe. You only know what you have been taught, and you have been taught wrongly.

May I suggest you come and visit us in OBOB (One Bread One Body) and aks US about what WE beleive instead of taking someone else's word for it.

Your statement above is very much in error about what we believe and do. We do not follow Mary, we follow Jesus. You also do not understand what we mean by Tradition. Our Sacred Tradition is in harmony with the scriptures. Please do not lump it in with the other types of tradition that exist, which I believe I elaborated on quite a bit earlier in this thread for metal.


I hope you will take the time to find out what we really believe instead of promoting myths about us . .


Peace in Him!

 

[thereselittleflower]

Any tradition that goes against anything in the Bible is wrong.

You cannot have the Bible saying one thing and tradition saying another.

Under those circumstances tradition is wrong.

Really? Then why did Jesus use Tradition instead of Old Testament Scriptures as the AUTHORITY He based His instruction on?


And again, you do not understand Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church . . Sacred Tradition and the bible say the same thing . .there is no contradicition.


Peace in Him!

 

[Heartman]

Is the movie complete scriptural, no. There are some rather serious departures. However, the Holy Spirit will use whatever He wants.

Heartman

 

[thereselittleflower]

Is the movie complete scriptural, no. There are some rather serious departures. However, the Holy Spirit will use whatever He wants.

Heartman

What serious departures did you see?


Peace in Him!

 

[clinzey]

And again, you do not understand Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church . . Sacred Tradition and the bible say the same thing . .there is no contradicition.

They don't really say the same thing. Church Tradition claims to explain, build and expound on Scripture. In one sense the Magesterium is simply interpretation, and interpretation of Scripture is not the same thing as Scripture itself.

 

[thereselittleflower]

They don't really say the same thing. Church Tradition claims to explain, build and expound on Scripture. In one sense the Magesterium is simply interpretation, and interpretation of Scripture is not the same thing as Scripture itself.

hi Clinzey

No. Sacred Tradition is oral teaching and instruction handed down by the Apostles and transmitted through the Early Church Fathers in addition to what was handed down in writing.

The Magesterium is the teaching authority of the Church and includes Sacred Tradition which includes Sacred Scripture.

Because Sacred Scripture does not contain everything that was handed down clearly enough to be understood through scripture alone, what is in Sacred Tradition rounds it out, explains fully what is not clearly or fully explained in Scripture.


That last sentence you posted is interesting . . . for I see a lot of interpretation being presented as though it was indeed scripture . .


Peace in Him!

 

[Symes]

And again, you do not understand Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church . . Sacred Tradition and the bible say the same thing . .there is no contradicition.

Who owns the leg you are trying to pull, it is not mine.

 

[Bro. Gabriel]

Hey guys, there's no need to degrade this into an argument.. especially since it doesn't apply to the point of the thread.

The Catholic Church is filled with many Spirit filled Christians who live good lives on faith, and there is no need to openly bash them as a whole. Every denomination of the Church has problems and problem members. None of them are perfect. (this coming from a Southern Baptist-raised college student)

 

[thereselittleflower]

And again, you do not understand Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church . . Sacred Tradition and the bible say the same thing . .there is no contradicition.

Who owns the leg you are trying to pull, it is not mine.

LOL Symes . . I am not pulling anyone's leg. I am just stating the facts.


Peace in Him!

 

[clinzey]

Because Sacred Scripture does not contain everything that was handed down clearly enough to be understood through scripture alone, what is in Sacred Tradition rounds it out, explains fully what is not clearly or fully explained in Scripture.

See, I just see this as interpretation - and there is nothing that says that Church tradition is infallible or on the same level with Scripture.

That last sentence you posted is interesting . . . for I see a lot of interpretation being presented as though it was indeed scripture . .

I agree - most of us believe that our interpretation is the right one. That's how we can look at the same verses and come up with 2 totally different interpretations.

 

[thereselittleflower]

See, I just see this as interpretation - and there is nothing that says that Church tradition is infallible or on the same level with Scripture.

Hi Clinzey. I do understand how you see it and why. I used to as well.



But there is a significant verse that tells us to hold to stand fast and SPECIFICALLY to hold THE TRADITIONS, what was handed down orally just as much as what was handed down in writing. And these two together make up the traditions of the Church we are to hold to standing fast.

(2Th 2:15)

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

​

If we are only holding what was handed down in writing, we are only holding to part of what we are being instructed to hold to here.

I agree - most of us believe that our interpretation is the right one. That's how we can look at the same verses and come up with 2 totally different interpretations.

Yes, I agree . .


Peace in Him!

 

[Benedicta00]

and there is nothing that says that Church tradition is infallible or on the same level with Scripture.

But the Church is apostolic. Did Christ write a book or build a Church?

Did the apostles not learn from the feet of Christ? Well that is Tradition, and it is validly God's word because it came from His own mouth, orally taught handed down from Him to us beginning with his 12.

How do you think the written word was verified? It matched up with Tradition. How do you think the tradition- both oral and written would be protected from error? God established a Church with teaching authority beginning with the 12 apostles.

 

[Symes]

Shelb5

But the Church is apostolic. Did Christ write a book or build a Church?

Did the apostles not learn from the feet of Christ? Well that is Tradition, and it is validly God's word because it came from His own mouth, orally taught handed down from Him to us beginning with his 12.

How do you think the written word was verified? It matched up with Tradition. How do you think the tradition- both oral and written would be protected from error? God established a Church with teaching authority beginning with the 12 apostles.

I am just trying to stay on track here and move it back to the "Movie"

The reports that I have seen tell me that there is much in the movie that is not in the Bible.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Shelb5


I am just trying to stay on track here and move it back to the "Movie"

The reports that I have seen tell me that there is much in the movie that is not in the Bible.

And? ? ? ? ?

So? ? ? ?

Is everthing about Jesus expected to be found in the bible?

Why is it OK for Jesus to base His teaching on something that is not found in the Scriptures?

If it is OK for Jesus to use Tradition to illustrate His message , why is it wrong for a follower of Jesus to use Tradition to illustrate his movie?

Have you seen it yet?

I would be interested to hear what you think after you see the movie . . I think some of this will become a non-issue for you. I have a friend who is adventist and strong Christian who was deeply moved by the film.


Peace in Him!

 

[clinzey]

But there is a significant verse that tells us to hold to stand fast and SPECIFICALLY to hold THE TRADITIONS, what was handed down orally just as much as what was handed down in writing. And these two together make up the traditions of the Church we are to hold to standing fast.(2Th 2:15)

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

If we are only holding what was handed down in writing, we are only holding to part of what we are being instructed to hold to here.

But the tradition he is talking about is not the Church Tradition as we know it today. Their tradition was the story of Jesus.

 

[thereselittleflower]

But the tradition he is talking about is not the Church Tradition as we know it today. Their tradition was the story of Jesus.

Hi Clinzey

The Church Tradition (speaking only of Sacred Tradition, not other types of tradtions such as ecclesial traditoin) as we know it today is the same Tradition Paul was speaking of in that verse. The Tradition Paul was speaking of was both what was handed down in writing .. epistles . . and what was handed down orally.

It was more than just the story of Jesus. It was all that was necessary to Christianity, what was believed, how the faith was practiced, lived out. Some of that that was recorded in the written books we now have as the New Testament, but not all of it was. We do not have all the epsitles of Paul. We know there were others as he refers to them, but we don't have them all.

That he did not commit everything to his epistles is evident from the verse we are discussing. That there are those things that are significant that were only committed orally to the Church is also evident.

It is these two bodies of knowledge that were handed down by the aposltes to the Church that we call Sacred Tradition. What was chosen to be included in the New Testament was chosen because those books were part of Sacred Tradition. But those books do not contain the whole of Sacred Tradition clearly spelled out. Such an idea was never even hinted at through all those centuries, that the scriptures were somehow enough by themselves until Luther came on the scene 1100 years later.

The same people, the same Bishops who declared the Canon of New Testament Scriptures for the Church in the late 4th and early 5th centuries are the SAME bishops who continued to hand down Sacred Tradition along side the newly Canonized New Testament.

These were faithfully handed down through the centuries side by side, together, following Paul's admonition to stand fast and hold the Traditions . .


Peace in Him!