Movie

[Symes]

The latest movie from Mel Gibson on the Passion of Christ, is it Biblically correct or does it just follow tradition?

If you have seen it, what is your reactions to all the violence in it?

Do you think anyone watching it would ever become a Christian?

 

[Knight]

The latest movie from Mel Gibson on the Passion of Christ, is it Biblically correct or does it just follow tradition?

It's Biblical in areas where material was taken from the Bible.

If you have seen it, what is your reactions to all the violence in it?

Not near as bad as what the hype indicated. Yes, it was realistic but the scenes cut away very often and you weren't forced to watch each and every bit.

Do you think anyone watching it would ever become a Christian?

With the movie alone? I don't think so. This simply tells the story of Christ's suffering and death it does not answer the question "Why?". That part is up to us.

 

[Symes]

With the movie alone? I don't think so. This simply tells the story of Christ's suffering and death it does not answer the question "Why?". That part is up to us.

You have made a good point.

 

[HoT-MetaL]

God will use the movie to his glory.

But what I am afraid of is that people will take the movie as gospel. It is NOT gospel, Mel Gibson and his father's theology is not necessarily right - remember he is a catholic, and so his first source of authority is the church, and a lot of this is wrong.

God Bless, metal.

 

[Knight]

metal,

That is my concern as well.......

 

[thereselittleflower]

God will use the movie to his glory.

But what I am afraid of is that people will take the movie as gospel. It is NOT gospel, Mel Gibson and his father's theology is not necessarily right - remember he is a catholic, and so his first source of authority is the church, and a lot of this is wrong.

God Bless, metal.

I found nothing theologically wrong with the movie.

But to answer your question Symes, yes, I think it will lead people to God, I know of people who have turned to God because of it. When I first saw it, I was enveloped by the presence of the Holy Spirit from the moment he was nailed to the cross to the end of the movie. The way the movie was made, you are immersed in it, you do not feel yourself watching something, it is as though you were there.

Peace in Him!

 

[HoT-MetaL]

I found nothing theologically wrong with the movie.

But to answer your question Symes, yes, I think it will lead people to God, I know of people who have turned to God because of it. When I first saw it, I was enveloped by the presence of the Holy Spirit from the moment he was nailed to the cross to the end of the movie. The way the movie was made, you are immersed in it, you do not feel yourself watching something, it is as though you were there.

Peace in Him!

I study film at A-Level (currently the AS Course) - I would be careful to suggest that the holy spirit is engrossing you into the film. The whole cinema experience is there to do that, with any film. Think about it for a moment. Surround sound is designed to throw sound into your ears from every angle. The cinema lights are switched off, you cant see anything. The screen is designed to fit the natural view of the eye. The cinema is angled so that you cannot see anybody, and the seats (if this is a descent cinema) should allow you enough space so that you touch noone.

Please dont think im saying that youre wrong, im just saying use your discernment. Film is designed to engross you. Paul said that he did not come with persuasive words - the same principle can be applied here. On levels you associate with characters of films, thats what theyre designed to do - when watching a romance, you think "awww i wish my man would treat me like that." or "awww shes so lucky" etc etc.

My church, along with 6 others, have bought £20 000 worth of tickets (this made national news in the UK, frontpage of the times, all the local papers, and a lot of the national newspapers)... outside theyre having an alpha talk, and inviting people to do an alpha course. I agree that God will use the film for his glory, and people will be saved.

The thing that i like about the concept of the film is that it brings the focus back on Christ. So many people say Christians = Church = Boring. WHen people see what Christ has actually done then it is such a relevant and amazing thing - as long as their scriptural basis isnt suddenly based on a film, but they go on to study the word of god in its origninal form.

God Bless, metal.

 

[thereselittleflower]

I study film at A-Level (currently the AS Course) - I would be careful to suggest that the holy spirit is engrossing you into the film. The whole cinema experience is there to do that, with any film. Think about it for a moment. Surround sound is designed to throw sound into your ears from every angle. The cinema lights are switched off, you cant see anything. The screen is designed to fit the natural view of the eye. The cinema is angled so that you cannot see anybody, and the seats (if this is a descent cinema) should allow you enough space so that you touch noone.

Please dont think im saying that youre wrong, im just saying use your discernment. Film is designed to engross you. Paul said that he did not come with persuasive words - the same principle can be applied here. On levels you associate with characters of films, thats what theyre designed to do - when watching a romance, you think "awww i wish my man would treat me like that." or "awww shes so lucky" etc etc.

My church, along with 6 others, have bought £20 000 worth of tickets (this made national news in the UK, frontpage of the times, all the local papers, and a lot of the national newspapers)... outside theyre having an alpha talk, and inviting people to do an alpha course. I agree that God will use the film for his glory, and people will be saved.

The thing that i like about the concept of the film is that it brings the focus back on Christ. So many people say Christians = Church = Boring. WHen people see what Christ has actually done then it is such a relevant and amazing thing - as long as their scriptural basis isnt suddenly based on a film, but they go on to study the word of god in its origninal form.

God Bless, metal.

Hi metal

I do appreciate your concern, I really do. It is good to know that people are looking out for you, watching your back so to speak.

I just want to clarify. I was not engrossed into the film by the Holy Spirit . . I was saying two things.

one, the film does an excellent job of pulling you into the story, of making it seem as though you are really there.

The other was the presence of the Holy Spirit enveloping me, enfloding me at the moment Christ was nailed to the cross. I have experienced thie Presence of the Holy Spirit many times like this, and I was using discerment. It was very obvious that this was separate from the movie 'experience'. I have heard others having the same type of expiernce at this moment.

When this happened to me, it was as though God were speaking into my heart, "behold the sacrifice, behold the lamb of God". Joy filled my heart from that point in the film on while most of those around me were crying all I could feel was this peaceful joy in teh presence of the Holy Spirit. That was not part of the intended movie 'experience'

And yes, it brings our focus back to Christ, to what he actually did for us.

I take it you haven't seen it yet, when is it being released in your country? It is an amazing film, but I did have to look away several times. Hearing what happens was enough in some scenes for me.

Peace in Him!

 

[HoT-MetaL]

Its being released on the 26th, a week this friday. I look forward to seeing it.

Sorry for my misconception, I see what you mean. I praise god that the holy spirit ministered to you durign the film, and hopefully he'll be there in power with those who need it!

God Bless, metal!

 

[Benedicta00]

Tradition and the bible do not clash, they are both consistent. So it’s biblical.

 

[HoT-MetaL]

Tradition and the bible do not clash, they are both consistent. So it’s biblical.

Its a fairly bold statement.
Whos tradition though?

Where in the bible are christmas tree's mentioned?
Traditionally angels are portrayed as naked babies with wings... find me a scripture to suggest this. Then find me a scripture to suggest that angels are almighty being's of god, who hold much power.

God bless, metal.

 

[welshchick]

I've seen the film, and thought it was quite good. there are parts of it which do not stick to Scripture, but on the whole it does.

i found it very interesting to see how they portrayed Satan.

For me, it has made me turn to God and be much more thankful for sending his Son to die for my sins.

Before, i just thought "yeh, Jesus was crucified" without thinking about what suffering he went through. seeing the film gave me a kind of reality check - Christ really suffered, suffered more than anyone could bear.

So from that piont of view, it has made me be more thankful to God for all His mercies.

 

[Bro. Gabriel]

I thought a lot of the evil elements of the movie were creepy, but seemed to be logically placed where they were.

It was violent, but realistic.

I think the movie fulfilled it's purpose as depicting the suffering of Jesus Christ.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Its a fairly bold statement.
Whos tradition though?

Where in the bible are christmas tree's mentioned?
Traditionally angels are portrayed as naked babies with wings... find me a scripture to suggest this. Then find me a scripture to suggest that angels are almighty being's of god, who hold much power.

God bless, metal.

hi metal

You know, this is a very common misconception that I keep forgetting about and should remember to clarify more often when I speak of Tradition.

So, I hope you will bear with me.

There are two basic types of traditions, well, actually 3. These are

Sacred Tradition

Ecclesial traditions

and man-made tranditions, like christmas trees, etc. . .


Where the misconception comes to play is in lumping all types of tradition into the last one. When someone does that, then of course, they all would seem to be meaningless. But that is not what Catholics and Orthodox do.

We separate out the traditions just like Jesus did.

Sacred Traditions isi that body of teaching (traditions) handed down orally by the Apostles to the Church and then by those who they ordained, and so forth. Some of this was recorded in scripture, but not all of it.

This Sacred Tradition is unchanging. We do not tamper with the teachings of the apostles handed down to us through Sacred Tradition.


Ecclesial traditions (notice now the small "t") are those traditions that the Church has the authority to institute regarding the practice of our faith, and can change as the need arises. Celibate clergy is an ecclesial tradition and can be changed. Whether we receive communion kneeling or standing is an Ecclesial tradition that can be changed, it is not set in stone.


Man-made traditions are those that bring us comfort in our day to day lives and during special celebrations. The christmas tree is one of these. There is nothing sacred about it, it is not somthing ruled on by the Church that says we have to have one in our homes. These types of traditions carry on family practices and values from one generation to another.


The danger is when we roll the other 2 into this last one, or even roll the first into the second and fail to distinguish between them.

Paul speaks to the first one very clearly, to Sacred Tradition:

(2Th 2:15)
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
​

Not everything was commited to their epistles. Some was simply taught orally and passed on orally. It is this combined teachng transmitted both orally and in writing that the Church holds to as Sacred Tradition.

Jesus who spoke against man made traditions and ecclesial traditions that went against the word of God had this to say in an example of Sacred Tradition:

Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
​

There is no reference to the seat of Moses in all of the Old Testament. Yet Jesus refers to this example of Sacred Tradition as the authority upon which He bases his teaching of obedience. He AFFIRMS this Sacred Tradition as having authority and weight requiring the assent and obedience of the faithful.

When we refer to Sacred Tradition we are not referring at all to man made traditions, or even ecclesial ones, we are referring to the unchanging teachings of the Apostles which Paul told us to hold to. This is why what the Early Church beleived and practiced is so important to us. Their beliefs and practices confirm the Sacred Tradition handed down to us today.


I want my faith to be the same faith as the Early Christians. I don't want it to be the result of what someone divorced (either by choice or not) from this tremendous body of knowledge and teaching comes up with from reading the scriptures on their own, whether they get advice from others or not. I want it to be really and truly the truth.


Peace in Him!

 

[HoT-MetaL]

Great Post, certainly corrects some misconceptions that ive had!!!

The thing is... if God called you to break tradition, I just dont see some people doing that. Communion, for example, was taken lying down at a meal, after much socialising. Think about how the Romans had their meals. It certainly wouldnt have been in a church, kneeling down, before a statue of mary. Where did it all get so twisted?!?!

Tradition sometimes needs to move on with the times. Look at the Salvation Army. At the time they took this sinful music, the brass band, and turned it into worship to god! They saw AWESOME movements of the holy spirit! It was amazing.
Look at the salvation army today. Every christmas they come out and play. People put some pennies in their pots. and then for a year they go into hiding. And now theyre no longer relevant.

The problem that I have is that dead religion has made the church irrelevant. The church is compromising - look at the gay bishops (lets not get into the debate). We preach the act of homosexuality is wrong, and then we employ one. Whats the deal with that? And who wants to stand up and sing a slow boring hym, with people who look like theyre sucking lemons? Noone! God gave us the ability to express worship, to worship how we want to worship him, in spirt and in truth. And yet if i sang at the top of my voice, raised my hands, and danced in worship to God, in a roman catholic church, you can guarantee i would be thrown out.

God Bless, metal.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Great Post, certainly corrects some misconceptions that ive had!!!

Hi metal

That's great! I am glad!

The thing is... if God called you to break tradition, I just dont see some people doing that. Communion, for example, was taken lying down at a meal, after much socialising. Think about how the Romans had their meals. It certainly wouldnt have been in a church, kneeling down, before a statue of mary. Where did it all get so twisted?!?!

well, hopefully I can clear up another misconception for you here. I am not sure where you get the idea that people in the Catholic Church receive communion kneeling down before a statue of Mary!

That does NOT happen!! There used to be kneeling rails around the alter area, like in many Protestant Churches where are kneeling rails around the pulpit area. Some Catholic Church still have these and people kneel there to receive communion. The rest of us go up to the priest and receive it standing and go back to our seats to kneel in prayer.

Again, this is an Ecclesial tradition that can be changed as the Church sees the need to do it. What CANNOT be changed is what Communion is. What Communion IS forms part of Sacred Tradition and is unchangable.

Tradition sometimes needs to move on with the times. Look at the Salvation Army. At the time they took this sinful music, the brass band, and turned it into worship to god! They saw AWESOME movements of the holy spirit! It was amazing.

And again, this would fall under eccelsial tradition which does change with times.


Look at the salvation army today. Every christmas they come out and play. People put some pennies in their pots. and then for a year they go into hiding. And now theyre no longer relevant.

The problem that I have is that dead religion has made the church irrelevant. The church is compromising - look at the gay bishops (lets not get into the debate). We preach the act of homosexuality is wrong, and then we employ one. Whats the deal with that? And who wants to stand up and sing a slow boring hym, with people who look like theyre sucking lemons? Noone! God gave us the ability to express worship, to worship how we want to worship him, in spirt and in truth. And yet if i sang at the top of my voice, raised my hands, and danced in worship to God, in a roman catholic church, you can guarantee i would be thrown out.[/quote]
I hear what you are saying about the problems in the christian community at large.

And as far as getting kicked out of a Catholic Mass, well you would probably be asked to sit quietly and observe. But I will share with you a lesson God taught me several years ago, actually is still teaching me ..


Don't look on outwards appearances. I was part of the Four Square Church for quite a while. Then, after I was married and started a family, God had us going to a quiet little Nazarene Church for several years. I was chafing at the bit many times for it seemed so dead. Then God began doing some deep work in my spiritual life, and started to show me how I was passing judgement on those whom really love Him and whom He loves .. and He would pass me over when the power of God was surging through my hands and use someone else who I had deemed of no consequence. Thus began a very humbling journey.

God showed me that He was as much there in that little quiet Nazarene Church as He was in the most vibrant and Spirit filled worship service I had ever attended. He showed me that I was looking at the wrong thing, outward appearances, outward evidences of life. But that is not what He looks at.

When God finally called us back into the most wonderful Church I had been in yet, I talked to our pastor who confirmed that we were to go to this new church. I then went to the sancturary and prayed for the people at that church. When I put my hand on the pulpit such power surged through that pulpit into my arm that it was staggaring and I was afraid. God gave me that very dramatic experience to show me to never judge what is alive or dead in this way.

There is so much I could share with you, so many things God showed me.

But I will say this. You would probably think that the Church I attend now is dead . . but it is not, it is very much alive. When the priest consecrates the bread and wine, a wave of God's presence begins to wash back through the Church, and it gets stronger. There have been times when I have gone forward that by the time I have reached the priest I have been shaking from the presence of God there. God has touched my spirit more deeply in a Catholic service than ever before.

There is so much more I could share.

But I have learned (I hope) that it is important to not confuse subdued with dead, and loud and excited with alive. . .


Peace in Him!

 

[Nirvana*]

The latest movie from Mel Gibson on the Passion of Christ, is it Biblically correct or does it just follow tradition?

If you have seen it, what is your reactions to all the violence in it?

Do you think anyone watching it would ever become a Christian?

well it follows almost 80% bible and 20 % scriptures from scholors and it also uses many metaphors from the own Mel Gibson(which he is no scholor nor big religion guy)

well when i saw it i did not react to the blood and gore i was thinking of something else i was thinking of Jesus and his journey to save us and clean up all our sins so basically i could not remember but o well it was pretty gore indeed...but ive seen more gore in games and other movies so...

and the last anwser i doubt that a non-christian would watch the movie and also instead of sayin ohhh poor guy now im going to be in his religion because he suffered so much it wont be like that they would say so what many other people have been tortured even worse (in the dark ages) because they were not even catholic (where did i get this info? from a friend who is an atheist talk to him some time )

 

[Symes]

well it follows almost 80% bible and 20 % scriptures from scholors and it also uses many metaphors from the own Mel Gibson(which he is no scholor nor big religion guy)

Mel Gibson may not be a scholar but he a devout Roman Catholic along with his father. I would say he is a "big religion guy"

 

[Bro. Gabriel]

My biggest hope for this film is that it might help unite Christians across denominational boundaries, which are man-made.

 

[Symes]

Tradition and the bible do not clash, they are both consistent. So it’s biblical.

Its a fairly bold statement.
Whos tradition though?

It is more than a fairly bold statement. Too much of tradition is WRONG.