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QUOTE where I said Ezekiel 36:27 refers to perfection.The whole time after I linked that verse, you were saying Paul can't be an example of this verse, because he was sinning. You sent several posts disputing that Paul had the law written on his heart and mind, because he sinned.
Although, your explanation for your interpretation of chapter 7, might be why we are having this discussion. You don't see chapter 7 as an example of him declaring his desire to keep the Torah, while struggling with sin. But if you read chapter 7 all the way through chapter 8 to the end, you will see that it's true. It's about him struggling to be free of sin, and hating himself when he falls, all the while placing his salvation ultimately on Jesus when he does inevitably fail.
Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Yep context.?
It's about context man, and chapter 8 gives context to what chapter 7 is talking about, so therefore to say that we are limiting our discussion makes no sense, considering that would limit our understanding.
It does make sense if you understand the truth?
It's about context man, and chapter 8 gives context to what chapter 7 is talking about, so therefore to say that we are limiting our discussion makes no sense, considering that would limit our understanding.
No, the leaders of the church did OT expect gentiles to learn the rest of the laws in the local churches. For years after the council of Jerusalem they reconfirmed their decision to Paul to only require gentiles to observe the four laws mentioned in Acts ch15( Acts21:25)
Whichever way you look at it, gentile converts were only asked to follow four laws, and years later that was confirmedOnce again, if you look at the verses surrounding that verse, it's apparent that circumcision is what is being discussed.
Acts 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.The elders then reference their previous decision laid out in Acts 15, when the Pharisees had brought up the very same subject. Yes, if you ignore the entire rest of the chapter in Acts 15, it does seem like they are doing away with the law. But I'm not going to ignore the entirety of Acts 15, and neither should you.
I agree we should still keep the law, but what are the laws we are to keep?In verse 18, He says that not until heaven and earth pass, shall the law have to be removed. Heaven and earth are still here, so not only does this mean that the law is still meant to be obeyed.
Is righteousness something determined by man or God? The Pharisees strived for a righteous life as known and shown to other men. God has a different way to judge righteousness. That is to do good as he determines.Then in verse 20:
20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
This is saying that, the righteousness of the Pharisees, was by the letter, and not of faith. So, in order to have more righteousness than a Pharisee, one must only believe, and trust in God.
It puzzles me that the same High Priest prophesied that it is better for one man to die than all. How can one both bring death to God's Son and also prophesy? What Jesus is saying is that the High Priest as an office had authority from God and should still be obeyed.But, we are to still keep the laws as the Pharisees said to, as stated by Jesus here: Matthew 23:1-3 - 1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
He is saying that the Pharisees teach the law of Moses, and that His disciples are to obey and to keep that law. To listen to them, because they preach the law of Moses, but only not to do as they do, because they place their faith in justification in themselves, and in man, not in God.
The law was never done away with, because it's displaying the Character of God. God cannot change. What is sin against Him yesterday, is sin against Him today and forever.
True, the eternal law is the one discovered by Adam and Eve when they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. So the eternal law is to do good, not every word of Moses, for many lived and where judged before Moses wrote the commandments of the Bible.People try to say that people after Moses were the only ones to have known the law, but this biblically speaking, isn't so.
The feasts where what people that followed God did as part of following God. Jesus instituted a new covenant with the sign of the Lord's Supper. This is the only feast we need to observe as we follow God. This testified by the destruction of the temple that was the center of your much acclaimed feasts.Besides, the feast days should be something we should want to celebrate. They all point to Jesus. All of them. Jesus has already fulfilled the first 4, and the last three He will come to fulfill as well.
In my post I suggested no one did so.Who has suggested Christ expects us to be sinless?
I certainly do not argue that. I was raised in one. And I was crushedThere are churches that do associate righteousness with avoidance of sin. Are you going to argue that?
Jesus never once sinned. On any level. Yet:
Deuteronomy 4:2 - 2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
So, we see here, that if Jesus would have changed the meaning of the law, He would've been guilty of sin. Does that make sense? Did our Savior sin? No. Because He didn't do away with the law, He simply revealed the deeper meaning behind the law. This is why David was forgiven for murder, because He was gifted and saw ahead, to the true meaning of the law. This is why Moses was justified, because He had faith in God, and loved the Father, instead of fearing Him as the rest of Israel did at the time. This is why Abraham was justified, because He had faith in the Father. This is why Noah was justified after getting drunken, because he had faith in his Father. All of these people had the law, yet they understood God's love and forgiveness and mercy. How would this be possible without the supposed "second law"? It wouldn't be. But most importantly, our Savior, would have been guilty of sin. I implore you to see, that the meaning of Jesus saying I desire mercy, not sacrifice, is because He never desired the sacrifices men were giving up. He desired men to read the scriptures, and to believe them. They all teach us that a savior is coming, to justify us. It's right there, plainly in His word, yet people still feel that they will get justification by the law, when this isn't so. The law is and never was for our justification, but how we show our love. As Jesus says, I show the world I love the Father, because as He gives me commandment, even so I do.
This is absolutely true, because circumcision is of the heart (something you desire, and long for) and when you do it, it's for the praise of your Father, not of man. That is the difference, because you can't follow the law justly, if you're doing it so men awe at how righteous you are. It has to be because you love God, and want to do as He commands you, because it's on your heart, and you desire Him and His judgements.
Because we show that we love Him, by keeping His commands. I don't keep the law to be saved. That'd be following the letter. I don't keep the law to be saved, I keep it because I feel it's something He wants me to do, based on reading the scriptures. Too many things don't add up for me to NOT keep the law. People say that Moses gave the law, and before that no one had the law, therefore God changes, because God gives His law to some, and not others, but if you read through Genesis, all of Genesis states otherwise. Noah offered up burnt sacrifices according to the law, with clean animals. Cain and Abel gave a tithe of first fruits. Abraham was stated to have kept the laws Genesis 26:5, and gave burnt offerings according to the law, with a Ram (a clean animal), it goes on and on and on these examples attesting to the fact that God's law always was. Yet, even though in Genesis 26:5, Abraham kept the laws statutes, judgements and commands, he was still justified by faith. So was David, so was Moses, so were all the Patriarchs of Israel, as were all of the prophets. They looked forward to Jesus, which even Jesus Himself says, all of the early scriptures attest to Him. What Jesus came to do, was to call us to what the scriptures show us. That even though it talks of a law, the purpose of that law was to get us to know that we needed a savior, and that the early scriptures all tell of Him. Whether it's in genealogies, prophecies, regardless, it's everywhere, and people chose to place faith in themselves, and not in God, as I once did, but am not any longer.
I'm not choosing between the two, they are one in the same. The grace of God didn't free me from the law, it punished me from the curse of the law, and from the punishment therein. Not the law itself. Is the law of God sin? No, it's righteousness, and holy, it is peace, and it gives life. Following it, has blessed me, immensely, and I do it, not for salvation. I do it, not for justification, but out of love, faith, and hope for, and in my Father. Jesus Himself says that He came NOT to destroy the law, but to fulfill it, and that the law wouldn't pass until heaven and earth pass away. Both heaven and earth are still here, therefore so is the law. Even then, when in heaven, the law will not be gone. We will still be following it, but because there will be no sin, there will be no need for the law, because we won't be capable of transgressing it.
Maybe you could clarify it what you meant,
Maybe you should learn how to read, the verses are very clear.
And they were highlighted.
If you cannot grasp the meaning, my explanation won't do you any good either.
No the Law was not done away with.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
In all honesty, we never needed sacrifices in the first place.
Right, physical circumcision for salvation serves no purpose, as it does not save anyone. If you circumcise to follow the Law, you are required to follow the entirety of the law. Being an uncirumcised male doesn't make you any more or less of a Christian than a circumcised male.We are to circumcise our children though, although it's not for salvation. Although, even if they aren't circumcised, it's not the end of the world. They can then make the decision to later on in life if they wanted. I'll circumcise my children, because there are blessings in doing so, but I digress.
.No need to be rude about it. I was honestly just trying to understand what you were saying.
You initially said
This statement makes it sound as if you believe the gentiles were following the entirety of the OT law (as in temple sacrifices, circumcision, etc....). If that is not what you meant, you need to clarify what you believe. Don't assume everyone knows what is going in your head. Now if you believe the temple sacrifices, food restrictions, and circumcision were done away with, then part of the law would be done away with, which would be the opposite of what you stated: "No the Law was not done away with". However, I am lead to believe that you believe that the gentiles had the entirety of the OT law (10 commandments, temple sacrifices, circumcision, etc....) written on their hearts, as you said "No the Law was not done away with. This is what needs to be clarified.
Yes. The way changes when the priesthood changes and that happens when the covenant changes.
Dear DevinP. Jesus told us in Matthew 22: 35-40: The first Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself."
in verse 40 we are told: On these two Commandments hang ALL the Law and all then Prophets. God is Love, and God wants loving sons and daughters. These two Commandments say all what God wants us to know. There is nothing greater than Love, Love for God and love for our neighbour. ( all we know and all we meet)
The Bible tells us to give up all selfish thoughts and wishes, Love God with our hearts, souls, and minds.
Love is very catching, and before long, we shall be the men and women which God wants us to be. Love covers ALL wrong wishes and wants, Love will make us God`s loving children, and Love is stronger than all other wishes. The Law might be done away with, but LOVE covers all wishes which God wants from us.
Let us remember that God is Love, and God wants loving children. Let us try and turn this selfish world into a world, where God and Love will rule. Why not give it a serious TRY? I say this with love, DevinP.
Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
I will still be sticking to the whole "those in the Spirit are not under the law because they fulfill the law spiritually and go beyond it since they are more than conquerors in Christ".
I just don't feel like stoning people to death for absurd reasons, sorry.
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