[MOVED] No christian should support BLM because it is anti-christian, marxist and promotes LGBT.

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Then the interpretation of objective is...subjective?

Possibly.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Society's most marginalized do not necessarily have qualifications or the ability to find dignified work,

Those who have no immediate ability should be helped, charitably. Not by giving them spaces they aren't qualified for, and marginalizing those with skills and talent.

In your economy your punishing hard work, skill and determination, and supporting idiocy at the highest levels...

That's not Christian, and it's not justice. If God wanted us all to be identical, He would have created us so.

 

[Michie]

You say people should support black lives matter. But you say people should not support Black Lives Matter. That is double speak. I have explained that there is a difference in the organization and the movement and slogan. But any time people say they support the movement or the slogan, you all think they mean the organization.

I say people should support black lives. Not the org. It’s not double speak. Saying black lives do matter does not equal double speak when you disown the organization and everything they stand for. I support black lives. I do not support the organization that identifies by that title and all they stand for. They do not own the belief that black lives matter therefore you must support them as an organization. I don’t.

 

[Philip_B]

I say people should support black lives. Not the org. It’s not double speak. Saying black lives do matter does not equal double speak when you disown the organization and everything they stand for. I support black lives. I do not support the organization that identifies by that title and all they stand for. They do not own the belief that black lives matter therefore you support them as an organization.

I just wish that your 'everything' was rather 'many things' because there are some things they stand for which I believe many christians would support.

That's not Christian, and it's not justice. If God wanted us all to be identical, He would have created us so.

That is true, however the diversity we display is not a diversity of value, for each of us carries within us the divine stamp - the image and likeness in which we were made.

 

[Hazelelponi]

That is true, however the diversity we display is not a diversity of value, for each of us carries within us the divine stamp - the image and likeness in which we were made.

I never said anyone has less inherent value...

Just that things like college entrance and job opportunities should go to those who are qualified for those spaces with abilities to perform the requirements set, and not just anyone regardless of qualification based on the group to which they belong.

Hard work is encouraged Biblically, and is rewarded. I don't see how group association taking the place of individual achievement and work is justice by any stretch of the imagination.

See Proverbs 31:10-31, a nugget about being industrious.

 

[Michie]

I just wish that your 'everything' was rather 'many things' because there are some things they stand for which I believe many christians would support.

I can’t support them as a Catholic being quite aware of everything they stand for. As I posted in this thread. Sorry.

 

[Lady Bug]

You say people should support black lives matter. But you say people should not support Black Lives Matter. That is double speak. I have explained that there is a difference in the organization and the movement and slogan. But any time people say they support the movement or the slogan, you all think they mean the organization.

She explained to me in this very thread the difference lol.

 

[hedrick]

Please be careful about calling BLM Marxist. Whatever else it may be it isn’t Marxist, and in fact might be a bit better off if it were somewhat more Marxist. There’s nothing Marxist about Black Lives Matter

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

She explained to me in this very thread the difference lol.

I explained the difference in this thread.

 

[Quartermaine]

It isn't . It is being attacked for openly advocating for Marxism

Evidence?

 

[hedrick]

Evidence?

A couple of the founders said at one point that they were trained Marxists. I believe that. Training in organizing radical politics would be helpful to them. However the BLM is Marxist only if you seriously redefine Marxism.

 

[Silmarien]

Those who have no immediate ability should be helped, charitably. Not by giving them spaces they aren't qualified for, and marginalizing those with skills and talent.

The question is how do we help those who have no immediate ability. Free job training? Welfare programs? Universal basic income? Any of this things is going to be social justice, so arguing about what how best to carry out social justice seems more useful to me than arguing about whether social justice is good.

In your economy your punishing hard work, skill and determination, and supporting idiocy at the highest levels...

That's not Christian, and it's not justice. If God wanted us all to be identical, He would have created us so.

I haven't discussed my economics one way or the other in this thread.

 

[Michie]

Former Detective Claims Black Lives Matter Founded On 'Pack Of Lies'

A Company That Profits Off Of The Black Lives Matter Movement

Is Black Lives Matter Marxist? No and Yes. | Brad Polumbo

The matter of Marxism: Black Lives Matter is rooted in a soulless ideology

 

[Quartermaine]

There's a huge difference between giving in Christian charity and state redistribution of advantages and resources to groups who someone somewhere has determined to be disadvantaged.

When your doing this, your basing everything on group, not on qualifications, on merit, on character, on work. Whether boy x or boy b gets into college? Now based on ethnic group rather than testing and ability. Whether girl a or b gets a job? Op.. again based on group not on qualifications and ability.

Whenever the most important feature is what group you belong to, and character, ability and determination means nothing, your perpetrating injustice upon people.. not justice.

What is just is deciding college admissions based on test scores and merit, deciding a new hire based on qualifications and ability. That is just.

Saying every resource gained by every individual in group A has been gained unjustly because group a is an advantaged group so group b can take from group a all they like is unjust.

There is no justice to be found in social justice, it's evil. It's every totalitarian state in history. It's how you end up shipping people off to gas chambers in cattle cars... because of the group they belong to, because they have the determined wrong ethnic background.

This is why identity politics is evil. Everything about this is evil. Any pastor pushing it has no idea who Christ is.

Do you realize you are engaging in the very thing you are railing about as unjust?

 

[BNR32FAN]

The question is how do we help those who have no immediate ability. Free job training? Welfare programs? Universal basic income? Any of this things is going to be social justice, so arguing about what how best to carry out social justice seems more useful to me than arguing about whether social justice is good.



I haven't discussed my economics one way or the other in this thread.

what do you mean by immediate ability?

 

[Quartermaine]

I never said anyone has less inherent value...

Just that things like college entrance and job opportunities should go to those who are qualified for those spaces with abilities to perform the requirements set, and not just anyone regardless of qualification based on the group to which they belong.

I'd ask you fro information on who exactly is doing this but the fact is that it just isn't happening . It has been a long standing propaganda piece among closet racists.

 

[RDKirk]

I'm going to paste what I just said in another topic:

"Support BLM" is a broad concept. For that matter, "BLM movement" itself is a broad concept, not identical to the BLM sentiment, nor identical to the BLM organization.

First, there is the basic sentiment that "the life of a black suspect in the hands of police matters as much as the life of a white suspect in the hands of police." Pretty much all black people assent to that sentiment, and it's that sentiment which the vast majority of us have in mind when we agree that "black lives matter."

In other words, the police should have been as gentle with Sandra Bland as they were with Dylann Roof.

When white people argue against "black lives matter," most black people assume that to mean those particular white people believe the life of a black suspect should not matter to police as much as the life of a white suspect.

It's like saying, "Don't strangle puppies." Anyone can assent to "Don't strangle puppies." Even corporations can assent to "don't strangle puppies."

Assenting that puppies should not be strangled does not imply that kittens should be strangled instead, and we believe any honest person should realize that.

The Twitter hashtag #BlackLivesMatter is, for most black people, simply a communication tool. If a local black activist--who may be an activist on many issues affecting black people in that particular community--may use #BlackLivesMatter simply to publicize a local protest march without any connection with the women who originated the hashtag.

Because the BLM Movement represents, at its base, the sentiment that "the life of a black suspect in the hands of police matters as much as the life of a white suspect in the hands of police," it's easy for people and even corporations to assent to.

Then there are people who pick up a microphone and claim to be spokespeople for the "BLM Movement." They have broadened the "movement" to include whatever their pet peeve happens to be--which may or may not gain broad assent among black people, and even if it does, black people across the board may not tie it to our assent to the sentiment that "the life of a black suspect in the hands of police matters as much as the life of a white suspect in the hands of police."

In some cases, white people are clutching their pearls (real or imaginary) over the proclamations of "BLM spokespeople" who black people largely ignore, like Shaun King (who we call, derisively, "Talcum X" because he only chose to identify as black when it suited his purposes).

As well, black people are hip to the fact that the women who originated the #BlackLivesMatter hashtag are not themselves primarily concerned with the matters of black lives, but use the hashtag for many other purposes beyond the sentiment that "the life of a black suspect in the hands of police matters as much as the life of a white suspect in the hands of police." We simply don't pay anywhere near the attention to those folk as white people do.

I have to hear about the latest antics of the BLM organization or various "BLM spokespeople" from conservative whites...because black people don't speak of them among ourselves. They have no significance to us.

Those who have read the website of the "official" BLM organization don't assent to much of it. We assent to the broader local issues of our own known local activists.

 

[RDKirk]

lol you think I have power. Oh and btw let’s not forget that brother Martin was a Reverend, he is a man of God.

That was hotly disputed as well by many white Christians at the time...and still is.

edit: one more thing, I don’t recall as many blacks opposing Rev Martin Luther or the civil rights movement as I see opposing BLM. Kind of ironic don’t ya think? Or perhaps those blacks who oppose BLM are just racists to?

If you see that black opposition to BLM is greater than black opposition to Martin Luther King, then why are you worried about it?

 

[hedrick]

Here’s what some actual socialists think of BLM. Black Lives Matter cashes in on black capitalism

I've spent quite a while looking at their web site and others commenting on it. There's no question that BLM sees a confluence between white supremacy and what they call "white capitalism." I don't see much actual intent to take down capitalism as a whole, except in sites critical of them.

Some BLM statements use typical overblown radical rhetoric. But that doesn't make them anti-American or even against a free market economy.

I'm actually more concerned that in this thread we're seeing signs of people identifying Christianity with conservative American politics. I think official representatives of major religious communities are being careful to avoid that. Major figures from Catholic, Orthodox, and (at least) traditional Reformed are publicly in support of BLM, though I doubt they're in the majority. I'm concerned that CF is allowing people who are more conservative than their actual tradition to give the wrong impression of what is actually going on.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Any of this things is going to be social justice, so arguing about what how best to carry out social justice seems more useful to me than arguing about whether social justice is good.

Free job training isn't social justice, nor justice by any definition... Social justice as defined by those in it and defining it, is redistributive in nature. And in Christianity, justice itself is not optional.

As a Christian, I cannot speak of state benefits to its citizens or any portion of such a debate as justice in any form, because these things don't involve justice, by a Christian definition of the word.

I haven't discussed my economics one way or the other in this thread.

You used a term with a definite definition that employs economics... I addressed that, according to its own definition.