[MOVED] Is ignorance an excuse?

[eleos1954]

We live in a remarkable time in history in regard to information and the availability of the Bible and many valuable study resources and historical data .... most of us are without excuse.

ok ... so I say "most" let me explain ...

Acts 17:30
English Standard Version
The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,

In history past ... obviously there were people who had no knowledge of God and died earthly death.

Even so, today .... way back in the bush ... or congo ... (ie. very remote places) (countries who ban Christianity)... this is still the case.

So, we have many people who have died or will die without the knowledge of our Lord.

So, what do you think is the eternal destiny of these people and why? Please provide scriptural references.

 

[Charlie24]

We live in a remarkable time in history in regard to information and the availability of the Bible and many valuable study resources and historical data .... most of us are without excuse.

ok ... so I say "most" let me explain ...

Acts 17:30
English Standard Version
The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,

In history past ... obviously there were people who had no knowledge of God and died earthly death.

Even so, today .... way back in the bush ... or congo ... (ie. very remote places) ... this is still the case.

So, we have many people who have died or will die without the knowledge of our Lord.

So, what do you think is the eternal destiny of these people and why? Please provide scriptural references.

Paul made it clear in Rom. 1:18-20, that man has no excuse to not know about God.

Paul is speaking of what theologians call, the universal objective knowledge of God.

It says that the creation you see demands a Creator. It suggests the eternal powers of God.

Knowing there is a Creator, even the most primal should give notice and conduct themselves accordingly.

 

[eleos1954]

Paul made it clear in Rom. 1:18-20, that man has no excuse to not know about God.

Paul is speaking of what theologians call, the universal objective knowledge of God.

It says that the creation you see demands a Creator. It suggests the eternal powers of God.

Knowing there is a Creator, even the most primal should give notice and conduct themselves accordingly.

according to what?

 

[Charlie24]

according to what?

I'm just showing you what Paul said. If you don't believe it, take it up with him.

 

[cloudyday2]

There is this:
"For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God." 1 Peter 4:6 NASB (from biblehub.com)

 

[Lukaris]

Paul said in Romans 2 that people have an obligation to know right from wrong. The Old Testament has examples of this ( Psalms 15, Ezekiel 18:4-9, etc.). The Lord says those who do good will be saved & those who do evil will not be saved ( John 5:22-30).

 

[eleos1954]

I'm just showing you what Paul said. If you don't believe it, take it up with him.

not arguing with Paul .... it seems the sense of right and wrong is within all of us .... since the fall of Adam & Eve ... always has been ... always will be ... regardless if one has been exposed to Him through any kind of biblical knowledge or not ... that is ... mankind does indeed have the knowledge of good and evil and got that knowledge from the fall.

Genesis 3:22, NIV: "And the LORD God said, 'The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

If man knows both good and evil then eternal life is not possible. That's why there is death.

Yet, there is satan and the fallen angels? Who evidentially knew good from evil and started out in heaven.

That being the case .... at the first resurrection ... we will be transformed not knowing what evil is? (if so, fine with me!)

Just pondering some things.

 

[eleos1954]

Paul said in Romans 2 that people have an obligation to know right from wrong. The Old Testament has examples of this ( Psalms 15, Ezekiel 18:4-9, etc.). The Lord says those who do good will be saved & those who do evil will not be saved ( John 5:22-30).

How do people who have never been exposed to the Word of God know what sin is?

 

[Charlie24]

not arguing with Paul .... it seems the sense of right and wrong is within all of us .... since the fall of Adam & Eve ... always has been ... always will be ... regardless if one has been exposed to Him through any kind of biblical knowledge or not ... that is ... mankind does indeed have the knowledge of good and evil and got that knowledge from the fall.

Genesis 3:22, NIV: "And the LORD God said, 'The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

If man knows both good and evil then eternal life is not possible. That's why there is death.

Yet, there is satan and the fallen angels? Who evidentially knew good from evil and started out in heaven.

That being the case .... at the first resurrection ... we will be transformed not knowing what evil is? (if so, fine with me!)

Just pondering some things. )

Jesus is the example of what we will be. At His resurrection He was the same person but now immortal, a glorified body, flesh and bones.

He could walk through walls, disappear and reappear at a snap. So shall we be and without the sin nature. It will not be possible for us to sin anymore.

Angels do not have a body of flesh, they cannot have a glorified body. They will be subject to the child of God in the Kingdom.

 

[cvanwey]

We live in a remarkable time in history in regard to information and the availability of the Bible and many valuable study resources and historical data .... most of us are without excuse.

ok ... so I say "most" let me explain ...

Acts 17:30
English Standard Version
The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,

In history past ... obviously there were people who had no knowledge of God and died earthly death.

Even so, today .... way back in the bush ... or congo ... (ie. very remote places) (countries who ban Christianity)... this is still the case.

So, we have many people who have died or will die without the knowledge of our Lord.

So, what do you think is the eternal destiny of these people and why? Please provide scriptural references.

Here's an even more intriguing question. What is to become of a still-born, diseased infant, or toddler? Heaven or hell? Free pass or eternal damnation?

 

[Lukaris]

How do people who have never been exposed to the Word of God know what sin is?

Our conscience is where we basically know right from wrong as St. Paul mentions in Romans 2. The commandments the Lord mentions in Matthew 19:16-19 & St. Paul mentions in Romans 13:8-10 are mostly what have been commonly understood even if often abused throughout history.

These are the standard of which we are judged ( Daniel 12:1-4, John 5:22-30 etc. ) & as Solomon noted way back ( Ecclesiastes 12). By God’s law you might be saved or damned.

The Lord took matters further to give us proof that we may be saved but must still be accountable ( John 3:16-21, Ephesians 2:8-10 etc.).

 

[eleos1954]

Our conscience is where we basically know right from wrong as St. Paul mentions in Romans 2. The commandments the Lord mentions in Matthew 19:16-19 & St. Paul mentions in Romans 13:8-10 are mostly what have been commonly understood even if often abused throughout history.

These are the standard of which we are judged ( Daniel 12:1-4, John 5:22-30 etc. ) & as Solomon noted way back ( Ecclesiastes 12). By God’s law you might be saved or damned.

The Lord took matters further to give us proof that we may be saved but must still be accountable ( John 3:16-21, Ephesians 2:8-10 etc.).

By God’s law you might be saved or damned.

so ... Gods Law has always been in the conscience of His created intelligent beings and always will be.

 

[Lukaris]

so ... Gods Law has always been in the conscience of His created intelligent beings and always will be.

That has how I have always understood it. The law of Moses is particular to the Jews but there was a law given to Noah in Genesis 9 & Job ( for ex., I believe) ( Job 1:1)lived by such a law.

 

[eleos1954]

That has how I have always understood it. The law of Moses is particular to the Jews but there was a law given to Noah in Genesis 9 & Job ( for ex., I believe) ( Job 1:1)lived by such a law.

well ... where I was coming from is ... sin is transgression of the law .... and God created all His intelligent beings (including angels) with the knowledge of His law. They sinned ... so they had knowledge of His law.

sin actually began in heaven with lucifer and the 1/3 angels

so in looking at all the different "laws" throughout biblical history the only ones that are eternal have to be the 10 that God wrote with His own finger. Those same tablets are under the mercy seat of His throne in the sanctuary in heaven.

His word says all are without excuse ... so the 10 must be in the conscience/heart/mind every intelligent being He ever created. Other laws were given for different reasons. This then would answer the original OP .... even people who in past history, now and into the future before His return who have never heard of Him have been made/are made aware of His law (the 10) and can therefore be saved ... or lost according to their receptiveness to the law that is in their conscience.

Like I said just pondering here ;o)

 

[Caliban]

We live in a remarkable time in history in regard to information and the availability of the Bible and many valuable study resources and historical data .... most of us are without excuse.

ok ... so I say "most" let me explain ...

Acts 17:30
English Standard Version
The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,

In history past ... obviously there were people who had no knowledge of God and died earthly death.

Even so, today .... way back in the bush ... or congo ... (ie. very remote places) (countries who ban Christianity)... this is still the case.

So, we have many people who have died or will die without the knowledge of our Lord.

So, what do you think is the eternal destiny of these people and why? Please provide scriptural references.

It seems that with access to information and scholarship, the trend points toward non belief.

 

[eleos1954]

It seems that with access to information and scholarship, the trend points toward non belief.

Does no way point to non-belief .... points to better understanding God's loving character.

 

[Caliban]

Does no way point to non-belief .... points to better understanding God's loving character.

Actually, since the Information Age began, secularity has radically increased. Religious belief in in decline in all democracies with free access to education. How do you explain this without concluding that the more people learn about religious claims, evidence, and facts--the more they withhold theistic belief?

Young people certainly do not find the God of the Bible to be "loving." They tend to find intolerance in the teachings of the Bible and religious institutions.

 

[eleos1954]

Actually, since the Information Age began, secularity has radically increased. Religious belief in in decline in all democracies with free access to education. How do you explain this without concluding that the more people learn about religious claims, evidence, and facts--the more they withhold theistic belief?

Young people certainly do not find the God of the Bible to be "loving." They tend to find intolerance in the teachings of the Bible and religious institutions.

What teachings are they listening to? People need to study His word for themselves.

Some can't get by secular teaching/beliefs ... and His word tells us this will be the case with many ..... many love the world and worldly ways rather than God and His ways.

Lies of satan abound.

 

[ewq1938]

 

[Jonaitis]

We live in a remarkable time in history in regard to information and the availability of the Bible and many valuable study resources and historical data .... most of us are without excuse.

ok ... so I say "most" let me explain ...

Acts 17:30
English Standard Version
The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,

In history past ... obviously there were people who had no knowledge of God and died earthly death.

Even so, today .... way back in the bush ... or congo ... (ie. very remote places) (countries who ban Christianity)... this is still the case.

So, we have many people who have died or will die without the knowledge of our Lord.

So, what do you think is the eternal destiny of these people and why? Please provide scriptural references.

I could be wrong, but the Congo is identifies majorly Christian.

However, ignorance of God doesn't exist. Romans 1:18-32 clearly explains that God is evident to all men and women in all places. It is a mistaken belief that all men are innocent before God if they have never heard of Jesus Christ, but Scripture clearly states that all men are sinners and deserve wrath. We have all rebelled against God, and this is evident within us and our conscience.