[moved from C&E] Religions call people Atheists.

[Nathan Poe]

Arrest me -- I'll plead 'guilty'.

As my pastor says, when they outlaw a [certain topic] here in America as a hate crime, and the government says we can't preach against it anymore, then they will have to come and arrest me.

On the plus side, you'll finally be important enough for the government to pay attention to -- not that I think your "preaching" will amount to a hill of beans, but still...

 

[Nathan Poe]

But I come here and I see intelligence is measured by how strong an atheist one is.

Actualy, AV -- on a board discussing physical and life sciences, "intelligence" is measured (in a limited manner, admittedly) by one's ability to discuss... wait for it... physical and life sciences in a meaningful, coherent, and accurate manner.

If strong Atheists seem better at that, well, maybe it's a coincidence, or maybe...

 

[AV1611VET]

On the plus side, you'll finally be important enough for the government to pay attention to -- not that I think your "preaching" will amount to a hill of beans, but still...

I don't preach -- wasn't called to.

1 Timothy 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

 

[AV1611VET]

Actualy, AV -- on a board discussing physical and life sciences, "intelligence" is measured (in a limited manner, admittedly) by one's ability to discuss... wait for it... physical and life sciences in a meaningful, coherent, and accurate manner.

And what about on a board discussing creation and evolution?

 

[Nathan Poe]

And what about on a board discussing creation and evolution?

Same idea -- same results.

 

[Son of the King]

And what about on a board discussing creation and evolution?

Originally Posted by Nathan Poe .....a meaningful, coherent, and accurate manner.


I know your not fooled by this comment AV. He has been nothing but rude, insulting, ignorant, flaming, proud, arrogant, belitteling...just to name a few, in 99 % of his responses. Why you respond to such I dont understand AV, but I must commend you on keeping a Christian like attitude regardless of the many snideful remarks by such as Nathan Poe.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Originally Posted by Nathan Poe .....a meaningful, coherent, and accurate manner.


I know your not fooled by this comment AV. He has been nothing but rude, insulting, ignorant, flaming, proud, arrogant, belitteling...just to name a few, in 99 % of his responses. Why you respond to such I dont understand AV, but I must commend you on keeping a Christian like attitude regardless of the many snideful remarks by such as Nathan Poe.

You flatter me, SotK -- but as anyone who's put up with AV for any length of time will tell you, AV cheerfully accepts any kind of attention as long as it's attention.

Fact of it is, in the twin topics of Physical and Life Sceiences/Creation and Evolution, AV hasn't put forth anything worth seriously responding to in quite some time -- if ever, actually.

 

[AV1611VET]

Originally Posted by Nathan Poe .....a meaningful, coherent, and accurate manner.


I know your not fooled by this comment AV. He has been nothing but rude, insulting, ignorant, flaming, proud, arrogant, belitteling...just to name a few, in 99 % of his responses. Why you respond to such I dont understand AV, but I must commend you on keeping a Christian like attitude regardless of the many snideful remarks by such as Nathan Poe.

God bless you, my friend!

Thank you!

I know this sounds cruel, but I have to remind myself of how Satan operates, viz.:

Acts 16:16 ¶ And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
Acts 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

 

[MoonLancer]

What's 'quite easily' to you? 1 day? 1 week? a year?

at what? You have given no context so no answer could possibly be given.

Also learning is just one aspect of intelligence. I was responding to Dovemans blatant misunderstanding of what knowledge is. If asked what intelligence was i would have given a very different answer.

But I come here and I see intelligence is measured by how strong an atheist one is.

Actually i think they probably just use the standard definition of intelligence which i think wikipedia summs up nicely. It just so happens that creationists tend to fail many of the aspects of intelligence. Specifically understanding, reasoning, abstract thought and learning. I think they excel at communication where scientists fail this quit often. Its easy to communicate god did it which requires no explication, vs something that requires a lot of explaining to understand.

 

[AV1611VET]

Its easy to communicate god did it which requires no explication, vs something that requires a lot of explaining to understand.

Is it, now?

You think you can do what I do with ease, do you?

 

[MoonLancer]

Is it, now?

You think you can do what I do with ease, do you?

when I'm not tied down to pesky things like facts, sure.

also no offense but your a poor example.

More often then not you turn people away from what you preach.

 

[wensdee]

You think you can do what I do with ease, do you?

When you don't need to show evidence or even make any sense it's very easy to let your mind wonder and say the first thing that comes into your head, especially when you have an imaginary miracle wielding god to call on when someone finds a hole in your argument, which I might add is every time, if you start in a dream you remain in a dream, so yes what you do is easy because it's your dream and you make the rules.

 

[Greg1234]

Exterminate the ignorance which was prevalent in the past.

Darwinism may not be applied.

 

[Tomatoman]

Sorry, guys, but the default human position is not, as has been proposed here, atheism, but is in fact theism. We, the human race, homo sapiens, have an inbuilt inclination to believe in gods. Every human population on earth whose culture we know anything about has had a religion of some sort and gods of various kinds.

The interesting question is WHY we have this inclination. For that we have to look to psychology and the way the human mind evolved. Evolutionary psychology they call it. The human mind is geared for interacting with other human minds. All our conscious thoughts are about things we can tell other people about. The mind is a big social interaction tool, obsessed with status, social politics and sex. If you want proof of this watch people when they are gossiping. You will see total, undivided, wrapt attention. They are switched on. This is why soap operas and reality tv shows are so popular. they all focus in on the same themes, the themes our mind has evolved to be obsessed with: other minds, what they thinking, when they are cheating, what they are saying about us behind our backs etc.

Now, if you have a creature that is obsessed with other human minds, what do you imagine that creature will conclude when confronted with unexplainable phenomena? Do you suppose they might get the idea that a mind of the human type is responsible for that phenomena? Sounds a reasonable assumption doesn't it. And that is exactly what we see. Gods of weather, gods of the sun, gods of the moon, gods of the harvest, gods of good fortune, gods of anything you care to mention. Ultimately ending up with the gods, or a god, who made everything. And what do all these gods have in common? They all have human minds.

That is why it is so hard to persuade people that their religion is wrong. It is going against the way their mind has evolved to think.

 

[Greg1234]

The interesting question is WHY we have this inclination

Man is created. There is only a loss of identity with a glimmer of retention from that creative influence.

And there is not an inclination towards theism. A falling tree is acting in response to a slew of environmental factors. Without the implementation of an external force to curb that inevitable courtship with the earth, then it will keep falling. Analogically, that "falling tree" is consciousness, the "external force" is free will, the "environment" is the material plane. Hence, in some places atheism is referred to as weak will. You cannot leave out the deterministic laws of attraction, of action and reaction, or the fact that consciousness, like other phenomena, is subject to them.

 

[AV1611VET]

When you don't need to show evidence or even make any sense it's very easy to let your mind wonder and say the first thing that comes into your head, especially when you have an imaginary miracle wielding god to call on when someone finds a hole in your argument, which I might add is every time, if you start in a dream you remain in a dream, so yes what you do is easy because it's your dream and you make the rules.

Nope -- you're way off-base.

First, I don't let my mind wander and say the first thing that comes into my head. As I said, these are educated suppositions.

Second, I can't just say anything and get away with it. That's the thing about interpreting the Scriptures literally. It makes even those who are hostile to It agree to what It says.

Third, I don't make the rules. I follow a set of Boolean standards -- and you know it.

 

[AV1611VET]

We, the human race, homo sapiens, have an inbuilt inclination to believe in gods. Every human population on earth whose culture we know anything about has had a religion of some sort and gods of various kinds.

The interesting question is WHY we have this inclination.

As the Bible says:

Ecclesiastes 3:11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

The proper translation of this clause is the following: "Also that eternity hath he placed in their heart, without which man could not find out the work which God hath made from the commencement to the end." God has deeply rooted the idea of eternity in every human heart; and every considerate man sees, that all the operations of God refer to that endless duration. See Ec 3:14. And it is only in eternity that man will be able to discover what God has designed by the various works he has formed.

God has given man a desire and affection to seek out the things of this world, and to labour in it.

... words of difficult interpretation. A preferable rendering would be: "Also he hath set the world in their heart, because that no man can find out," etc. The meaning would then be that God, understanding the inability of men to attain, by philosophic inquiry, to a full comprehension of his works and ways, has wisely set the world in their heart; that is, has occupied them to a large extent with its cares and labors, as a discipline that is good in its place and for the ends of probation. Their wisdom and happiness lie, then, not in vain endeavors to comprehend what is incomprehensible, but rather in submitting themselves in faith and patience to the appointments of their heavenly Father. Our version gives the same idea in the form of a result instead of a reason: "He hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out," etc.

It is true, God hath put the world into mens hearts, or made them capable of observing all the dispensations of God in the world; but this is to be understood with a limitation, because there are some more mysterious works of God, which no man can fully, understand, because he cannot search them out from the beginning to the end.

 

[Tomatoman]

Man is created. There is only a loss of identity with a glimmer of retention from that creative influence.

And there is not an inclination towards theism. A falling tree is acting in response to a slew of environmental factors. Without the implementation of an external force to curb that inevitable courtship with the earth, then it will keep falling. Analogically, that "falling tree" is consciousness, the "external force" is free will, the "environment" is the material plane. Hence, in some places atheism is referred to as weak will. You cannot leave out the deterministic laws of attraction, of action and reaction, or the fact that consciousness, like other phenomena, is subject to them.

You're quite mad aren't you.

 

[Tomatoman]

As the Bible says:

There we are, the power of evolution.

 

[wensdee]

As I said, these are educated suppositions.

If they are I would hate to imagine the education you must have had, using logic and common sense were certainly not included.