Most reliable method of preserving doctrine?

[Ortho_Cat]

Precisely. If you trust that God can work through men in the church to canonize scripture, then why don't you trust that he can work through them to establish other doctrines?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Precisely. If you trust that God can work through men in the church to canonize scripture, then why don't you trust that he can work through them to establish other doctrines?

Good question!

 

[sunlover1]

Precisely. If you trust that God can work through men in the church to canonize scripture, then why don't you trust that he can work through them to establish other doctrines?

"Other" doctrines...
Do you mean extra-biblical doctrines?

 

[Thekla]

To maintain teachings that are not explicit in Scripture, but received nonetheless.
(And to combat false teachings that claim Scriptural support.)

 

[Rhamiel]

no.

edification and understanding go hand in hand [ 1 Cor 12-14 ]

One of the first things the Reformers did was to translate scripture into the language of the people they were ministering to .... this was almost always opposed !

there was the Douay Rheims Bible, and many partial translations even before this into enlgish and other languages
what was opposed was bad translations done by people lacking proper education or translations that had bad translations used to support political movements or heretical sects

 

[Ortho_Cat]

"Other" doctrines...
Do you mean extra-biblical doctrines?

For example, at the 3rd Council of Carthage in 397, the 27 NT writings we acknowledge today were canonized. Why do many protestants reject the OT canon also established at this council, and on what basis?

• The Council of Carthage, called the third by Denzinger,[4] on 28 August 397 issued a canon of the Bible quoted as, "Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua son of Nun, Judges, Ruth, 4 books of Kingdoms, 2 books of Chronicles, Job, the Davidic Psalter, 5 books of Solomon, 12 books of Prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Tobias, Judith, Esther, 2 books of Ezra, 2 books of Maccabees, and in the New Testament: 4 books of Gospels, 1 book of Acts of the Apostles, 13 letters of the Apostle Paul, 1 letter of his to the Hebrews, 2 of Peter, 3 of John, 1 of James, 1 of Jude, and one book of the Apocalypse of John."

Councils of Carthage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

For example, at the 3rd Council of Carthage in 397, the 27 NT writings we acknowledge today were canonized. Why do many protestants reject the OT canon also established at this council, and on what basis?

• The Council of Carthage, called the third by Denzinger,[4] on 28 August 397 issued a canon of the Bible quoted as, "Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua son of Nun, Judges, Ruth, 4 books of Kingdoms, 2 books of Chronicles, Job, the Davidic Psalter, 5 books of Solomon, 12 books of Prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Tobias, Judith, Esther, 2 books of Ezra, 2 books of Maccabees, and in the New Testament: 4 books of Gospels, 1 book of Acts of the Apostles, 13 letters of the Apostle Paul, 1 letter of his to the Hebrews, 2 of Peter, 3 of John, 1 of James, 1 of Jude, and one book of the Apocalypse of John."

Councils of Carthage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1. Why does the EO agree with NONE but itself exclusively on what is and is not Scripture?


2. Are you saying that the third Council of Carthage is the "preserver" of stuff, or is your point that the EO or RC or both ignores the Third Council of Carthage even though it is infallible and is the best preserver of things?




.

 

[sunlover1]

I agree. And he chose well.

Odd that God inspired the book, but not the title But anyway, if you get a chance to read it, it's about the Apostles and the early church, and the church under their direction.

I've read it, it's about God the Spirit.

That's missing the point. It's NOT an account of Nathaniel the Gourd-Seller who followed Jesus for three years.

Each book is written by one of the 12 Jesus chose, or someone who wrote on their behalf, and Paul, also chosen

I understand that you think that it's me missing the point.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

1. Why does the EO agree with NONE but itself exclusively on what is and is not Scripture?


2. Are you saying that the third Council of Carthage is the "preserver" of stuff, or is your point that the EO or RC or both ignores the Third Council of Carthage even though it is infallible and is the best preserver of things?




.

Eh? RCC and EO accept this canon. EO includes a few extra book in its appendices for edificatory purpose.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Eh? RCC and EO accept this canon.

List of books in the Christian Bible, Roman Catholic Bible, Greek Orthodox Bible


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_the_Bible


http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/ethrcot.stm


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon (scroll down to the comparison chart)





.

 

[Thekla]

How can Sola Scriptura preserve doctrine when comprehending doctrine requires interpretation and arbitration ?

For example, Christ never once mentions or supports the use of Sola Scriptura.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

lol, bible.ca isn't the most accurate source for EO and RC canons. They obviously have a bone to pick. RC and EO have same canon as Carthage (397,419) and Hippo except some EO have a few extra minor books included in its appendices (e.g. prayer of Manesseh, Psalms 151). Ethiopian Orthodox are OO, I don't know if they were represent at the councils or not. Nevertheless, although they have more books, they still accept those presented at Carthage.

Point being, we accept all the books at the council of Carthage (OT and NT), P does not. Why?

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

How can Sola Scriptura preserve doctrine

Read http://www.christianforums.com/t7544221/ . Where is "preserve" mentioned anywhere?

For example, Christ never once mentions or supports the use of Sola Scriptura.

The example is Christ using it (as illustrated 50 times, just as recorded in the 4 Gospel Books) - that's the example. But where are the examples of Him using RCC or EO Tradition normatively (or even just MENTIONING it entirely in passing in regard to nothing)?





.

 

[Thekla]

Read . Where is "preserve" mentioned anywhere?

In the OP.

The example is Christ using it (as illustrated 50 times, just as recorded in the 4 Gospel Books) - that's the example. But where are the examples of Him using RCC or EO Tradition normatively (or even just MENTIONING it entirely in passing in regard to nothing)?
.

He also repeatedly quotes and "does" Jewish Tradition -- perhaps because you are unfamiliar with Jewish Tradition (including but not exclusive to oral Tradition), you haven't noticed it.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

List of books in the Christian Bible, Roman Catholic Bible, Greek Orthodox Bible


Books of the Bible - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The Bible: Compare the Ethopian Orthodox & Roman Catholic Old Testaments


Biblical canon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (scroll down to the comparison chart)
.

I love the title of that first source, as if RC and GO were something seperate from Christians...

Anyways, as I stated in my OP, all apostolic churches accept the books canonized at Carthage and Hippo and use them in their services. Why do most protestants reject them?

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

RC and EO have same canon as Carthage (397,419) and Hippo except some EO have a few extra minor books included in its appendices (e.g. prayer of Manesseh, Psalms 151). Ethiopian Orthodox are OO, I don't know if they were represent at the councils or not. Nevertheless, although they have more books, they still accept those presented at Carthage.

So, which is it? Is the list of Books IDENTICAL in the OO, EO and RC or not?

Which is "following" the Third Synod of Carthage? Which accepts the exact books - and only those books - mentioned at that meeting? The EO? The RC? The OO?

Why does NONE agree with the EO on what is and is not Scripture? It has a "grand" agreement of just one - itself with itself, exclusively, solely, uniquely - in that matter. Why?






.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Read http://www.christianforums.com/t7544221/ . Where is "preserve" mentioned anywhere?

In the OP.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7544221/ is not in the OP.

He also repeatedly quotes Jewish Tradition

Okay. List the several times Jesus uses Jewish Tradition normatively and state, "Jewish Tradition says...." or "It is written in Jewish Tradition that...." or any time He reference such normatively. Just give the quotes.



.

 

[Montalban]

I've read it, it's about God the Spirit.

Working through his church, Apostles; priests, deacons, andbishops

I understand that you think that it's me missing the point.

I won't say anything then

 

[ivebeenshown]

Why does NONE agree with the EO on what is and is not Scripture? It has a "grand" agreement of just one - itself with itself, exclusively, solely, uniquely - in that matter. Why?

Not that I would claim EO is 'the true Church', but as we have previously discussed, self agreeing with self does not necessitate that self is correct -- though if self does not agree with self, then self is moot (i.e., an invisible Church which disagrees on the nature and definition of the Trinity, aka God himself, or Baptism)

 

[Thekla]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7544221/ is not in the OP.

The link did not appear in the post by you that I quoted, sorry.

But I did think that we were responding to the OP ... no ?

Okay. List the several times Jesus uses Jewish Tradition normatively and state, "Jewish Tradition says...." or "It is written in Jewish Tradition that...." or any time He reference such normatively. Just give the quotes.
.

Tradition doesn't work that way


As for more - start with the "it is written" thread; if you are truly interested, you can do more research online.

Is it your belief that only some of what Christ taught was "normative" ?