Most reliable method of preserving doctrine?

[sunlover1]

easier than visiting all of the places individually, i would presume.

The authority was placed in them by Christ, just as the authority of their appointed successors is also from Christ.

Yes, that's what I said too. Given by God.
But what authority do you suggest was 'given to
their appointed successors"?

I don't know what you're talking about or is this something that's
not Scriptural.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Yes, that's what I said too. Given by God.
But what authority do you suggest was 'given to
their appointed successors"?

The same authority to 'bind and loose', like the binding decree that was issued in Acts 15.

 

[sunlover1]

The same authority to 'bind and loose', like the binding decree that was issued in Acts 15.

That would be all of us really.
Or do you believe that Jesus only meant
the apostles when He said that we would
do this and even greater things than He..?

I believe that He meant "the church" and that
binding and loosing is included in the lesser.
He breathed on me too!

 

[ivebeenshown]

That would be all of us really.
Or do you believe that Jesus only meant
the apostles when He said that we would
do this and even greater things than He..?

I believe that He meant "the church" and that
binding and loosing is included in the lesser.
He breathed on me too!

I don't think you have the authority to make a binding decree on all Christians to abstain from X food, or X activity, or to loose Christians from any such binding decrees that were set in place by those who truly have authority.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

3. Yes, the EO is fully "united" to the EO (officially, formally, institutionally and to the extent that itself regards such). But it's united to NOTHING else but itself. Is THAT the "unity" you think Jesus was praying for? Self alone with self alone?

EO agrees with self, yes. But as I have shown in this thread, the 5 or so apostolic churches teach and agree on many similar things. That is not unity, no, but it is alot closer to it than 30,000 different factions who only agree with self. If EO and OO merge (which I hope to see within my lifetime) then EO and OO will agree with each other, and will become the Orthodox Church. Then what? Maybe the ACOE is next. Then all three will agree with each other. Clears steps towards unity are being made.

In protestantism, perhaps one denomination will absorb another, only to have another one pop up in it's place. It's an endless game of "whack-a-mole" which will ultimately lead to more and more division, and further straying from Christ's intention for his church (unity). If self only agrees with self (i'm talking about individuals here) and each individual has the same authority as another, how could there ever be a resolution to unity? People have opinions. So long as this continues, and the authority is in the individual's interpretation, you will have factions (and many of them).

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

What do you think is 'the most reliable method of preserving doctrine?'

1. You are imposing an assumption upon those who don't share it. I do not ASSUME that all 2,875 points of the current Catholic Catechism was taught by Jesus + all 12-14 Apostles (and that corpus of teaching will grow with each new edition of said Catechism, the RCC suddenly "remembering" lots more that it has "preserved).


2. You seem to be confusing canning with norming. Sola Scriptura is about norming, not canning. Read the link I provided for you.


3. I do not know, and can only theorize, but where possible, writing it down is typically a good was to "preserve" stuff. It's why legal contracts and laws and rulings are written down. When I rented my apartment, I signed a WRITTEN document - with including this rather interesting clause - "no oral agreements, however presented, are regarded as binding upon either party." Written trumps oral. While there is some sense of the Law "written on the heart" of people since Adam and Eve (and still to this day), soon into the literate era, God literally inscribed it on two stones (which were highly regarded and esteemed). I do not claim to know WHY God does all that He does, but my personal opinion would be the best way to preserve ideas is to write them down - in black and white, objectively knowable and unalteable - fashion. It seems likely that was why God wrote the first Scripture some 3400 years ago - and contined to add to it for another 1600 years.







.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Yes, that's what I said too. Given by God.
But what authority do you suggest was 'given to
their appointed successors"?

I don't know what you're talking about or is this something that's
not Scriptural.

no no, it's all in there

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

EO agrees with self, yes. But as I have shown in this thread, the 5 or so apostolic churches teach and agree on many similar things

Yes, as you agree, the EO agrees with ITSELF - exclusively. AT LEAST as much can be said for any other of the 50,000 denominations. Is THAT what you think Jesus was praying for? Self agreeing only with self?


Friend, I can pick 5 denominations out of the 50,000 and note that they often agree on SOME issues. Is THAT what you think Jesus was praying for? Do you conclude that ergo those 5 denominations are infallible/unaccountable/exempt from the issue of truth?


As I understand it, the EO doesn't agree with even ONE other denomination even on issues of the very highest level: DOGMA! Um, recall 1054? Recall the DOGMA of the INFALLIBLE and superior Roman Pontiff? Orginal Sin? Purgatory? Immaculate Conception of Mary? Transubstantiation? D.O.G.M.A.'s.

factions who only agree with self.

Yup, just like your denomination.





.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

......

2. You seem to be confusing canning with norming. Sola Scriptura is about norming, not canning. Read the link I provided for you.
.....

What is the purpose of using the norm if not to bring about resolution of belief and practice?

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

What is the purpose of using the norm if not to bring about resolution of belief and practice?

That has nothing to do with canning....




.

 

[ivebeenshown]

1. You are imposing an assumption upon those who don't share it. I do not ASSUME that all 2,875 points of the current Catholic Catechism was taught by Jesus + all 12-14 Apostles (and that corpus of teaching will grow with each new edition of said Catechism, the RCC suddenly "remembering" lots more that it has "preserved).

I asked you one question, please, just answer it...

2. You seem to be confusing canning with norming. Sola Scriptura is about norming, not canning. Read the link I provided for you.

I have read your post many times over, and I still think Sola Scriptura is nonsense...

3. I do not know, and can only theorize, but where possible, writing it down is typically a good was to "preserve" stuff. It's why legal contracts and laws and rulings are written down. When I rented my apartment, I signed a WRITTEN document - with including this rather interesting clause - "no oral agreements, however presented, are regarded as binding upon either party." Written trumps oral. While there is some sense of the Law "written on the heart" of people since Adam and Eve (and still to this day), soon into the literate era, God literally inscribed it on two stones (which were highly regarded and esteemed). I do not claim to know WHY God does all that He does, but my personal opinion would be the best way to preserve ideas is to write them down - in black and white, objectively knowable and unalterable - fashion. It seems likely that was why God wrote the first Scripture some 3400 years ago - and continued to add to it for another 1600 years.

A rather lengthy reply to a simple question, but thank you.

How do you reckon that the Spirit inspiring an infallible writing is more reliable than the Spirit working through living beings to ensure that doctrine is preserved? Isn't God equally reliable here and there, then and now?

 

[Ortho_Cat]

That has nothing to do with canning....

I suppose what you call canning, I call unity of faith and practice.

 

[cygnusx1]

"Most reliable method of preserving doctrine?"

scripture .

everything else is flawed.

 

[ivebeenshown]

"Most reliable method of preserving doctrine?"

scripture .

everything else is flawed.

'Everything else' including the un-inspired interpretation of Scripture.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

I suppose what you call canning, I call unity of faith and practice.

Great! This forum is about preserving....

And you've already admitted that your denomination has such with NONE but itself.




.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

"Most reliable method of preserving doctrine?"

scripture .

everything else is flawed.

By this I suppose you mean the practice of Sola Scriptura. How is it's track record for preserving doctrine among the believers who adhere to it? Perhaps you could list for me some of the doctrines that the believers share in common.

 

[simonthezealot]

All true doctrines are grounded from the word, which is eternal and needs no preserving on our account...
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
1 Peter 1:25 but the word of the Lord stands forever." And this is the word that was preached to you.
Psalm 89:2 I will declare that your love stands firm forever, that you established your faithfulness in heaven itself.
Psalm 119:88 Preserve my life according to your love, and I will obey the statutes of your mouth.
Psalm 119:152 Long ago I learned from your statutes that you established them to last forever.
Psalm 119:160 All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal.
Isaiah 40:8 The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever."

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Great! This forum is about preserving....

And you've already admitted that your denomination has such with NONE but itself.

No, we share many beliefs and practices in common with other apostolic churches, a clear indication of good preservation.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Also note that the commonalities I listed in the OP are no trivial matters; many pertain to core issues of the faith such as salvation, the sacraments, the eucharist, and baptism. The more important, the better preserved, seems to be the trend.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

All true doctrines are grounded from the word, which is eternal and needs no preserving on our account...
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
1 Peter 1:25 but the word of the Lord stands forever." And this is the word that was preached to you.
Psalm 89:2 I will declare that your love stands firm forever, that you established your faithfulness in heaven itself.
Psalm 119:88 Preserve my life according to your love, and I will obey the statutes of your mouth.
Psalm 119:152 Long ago I learned from your statutes that you established them to last forever.
Psalm 119:160 All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal.
Isaiah 40:8 The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever."

But God did use the Church as a means to preserve the scriptures, along with her doctrines and practice.