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Most evolutionists are Christian

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savedandhappy1

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You said you disagreed with the OP's math. If you disagree with it, you don't understand it.

I had hoped that slightly altered numbers would make it easier to understand.

I fail to see how anything I said was rude. Nor did I twist anything.

All right, savedandhappy1, let's see if you can understand this:

Don't consider the above statement rude? Or is belittling people not considered rude anymore?

Maybe if you typed slower and emphasized certain words I can understand better.:doh:

Now I remember why I don't come to these sections much, because no matter what I am trying to learn or post about I am consider just some uneducated ...................

May not have a degree in science but that doesn't mean that everyone or anyone who doesn't can't understand or care about a certain issue.
 
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Skaloop

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Hmmmmmmmmm, didnt' I post other stats? Showing that what he was saying wasn't the whole picture.

The numbers you provided do not directly address the issue that was raised in the OP. Your statistics show that the vast majority of Americans are Christian.

The OP, in his detailed analysis of the numbers, accepts this, but goes further to show that of that Christian majority, a certain number accept evolution and this number is greater than the number of atheists in America. As such, there are more Christians that accept evolution than there are atheists who accept evolution.

This is not at all suggesting that most Christians accept evolution. Nor is it saying there are more evolutionists than there are Christians, or that there are more atheists than there are Christians, or that 85% of the American population is not Christian. All it's saying is that there are more theistic evolutionists than there are atheistic evolutionists.

Wasn't he using his stats to try and say that his stats prove that Christians are as a whole the ones pushing and or proving evolution?

But it is not either/or for those concerning who is, as you say, "pushing and or proving evolution." That is being done by all evolutionists, be they Christian or atheist or anything in between. Studying evolution is religiously neutral. His stats do not say Christians as a whole are doing anything, they say that some Christians accept evolution.

You really don't think that math can be used for bias? The math might be correct, but is it presented in such a way that it make the picture different then what it really is?

In the case of the OP, no. It was clearly described, and the math and assumptions were clearly presented, as were links to the statistics used in the calculations. If there is a bias in his presentation, could you point it out specifically?
 
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savedandhappy1

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You're not helping your case. :doh:

And again, someone who thinks I am here for me. :doh:

Hate to break it to you but it isn't about you or me, it is about God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. It is about whether one believes the Word, and follows the God of the Bible or if they make a God they want, because they can't understand the God of the Bible. Or they aren't comfortable with Him. Whichever or if it is someother reason, I don't know. I'm going to look at what the Lord says and then look at what science says and it they don't look the same, I'm going with the Lord,

You all need to get over yourself, and lets get back to discussing the topics in this forum, please.
 
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Skaloop

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Hate to break it to you but it isn't about you or me, it is about God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. It is about whether one believes the Word, and follows the God of the Bible or if they make a God they want, because they can't understand the God of the Bible.

I thought it was about the number of evolutionists who are Christian being greater than the number of evolutionists who are atheist. It has nothing to do with god, jesus, a spirit, or the bible. It's statistics, which is a secular study.
 
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savedandhappy1

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The numbers you provided do not directly address the issue that was raised in the OP. Your statistics show that the vast majority of Americans are Christian.

The OP, in his detailed analysis of the numbers, accepts this, but goes further to show that of that Christian majority, a certain number accept evolution and this number is greater than the number of atheists in America. As such, there are more Christians that accept evolution than there are atheists who accept evolution.

This is not at all suggesting that most Christians accept evolution. Nor is it saying there are more evolutionists than there are Christians, or that there are more atheists than there are Christians, or that 85% of the American population is not Christian. All it's saying is that there are more theistic evolutionists than there are atheistic evolutionists.

So, can you tell me why this is important? Can you tell me why it would even matter?

So alot of Christians don't believe the Bible, but rely on man instead of God. Is that something new or good?

Does this matter when it comes to salvation? You know I'm not sure, because if you can't believe the creation story can you believe that Christ really came to earth, that He dead on the cross and 3 days later rose from the dead?

I have heard many who profess to be Christians say they don't believe that Christ was God's son, but just believe He was a good prophet and man. I have heard the creation story denied, the great Flood story denied, and Jesus Christ's resurrection denied by people who call themselves Christians.

I have heard more then one professed Christian say they don't believe there is a hell, or that a loving God would send anyone to a hell. I have heard alot of the Bible dismissed or re-written to make Him more comfortable to the person. Each day I hear more and more of the things that we know about the Lord and the things that have been taught and believe, since the founding of the Church, thrown out for things that seem more................

We are to believe by faith for a reason, and we are warned several times in the Bible to not add to it or take away from it. Yet it seems that daily that is exactly what is being done.

I am attending a free class right now about creation vs. evolution, and yes it is being taught by a Christian science teacher, who is showing that evolution isn't as clear as so many try to say it is.

The teacher ask that we bring questions so that he could better cover the things that we wanted to better understand or that we questioned. So I thought I would come to this forum to find out what is the main things being taught as truth not just theory, and just how really truthful those things are.

I should point out that the stats I posted had nothing to do with this class, but was found through my research.

But it is not either/or for those concerning who is, as you say, "pushing and or proving evolution." That is being done by all evolutionists, be they Christian or atheist or anything in between. Studying evolution is religiously neutral. His stats do not say Christians as a whole are doing anything, they say that some Christians accept evolution.

In the case of the OP, no. It was clearly described, and the math and assumptions were clearly presented, as were links to the statistics used in the calculations. If there is a bias in his presentation, could you point it out specifically?

No, he isn't saying some Christians. Even the title says Most, which is why I was trying to show that the way the stats read were deceiving. We can make just about anything say what we want it to say, and not really be lying. This is why we must really look at the full picture, and both sides to all issues we feel are important.

I was raised during the time when it was taught that the Bible said and so I believe it, and that settles it. After growing in the Lord and His Word I see how that teaching isn't enough or totally right, through.

1 Peter 3:13-17
13 And who is he who will harm you if you become followers of what is good?
14 But even if you should suffer for righteousness’ sake, you are blessed. “And do not be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.”
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;
16 having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed.
17 For it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.

We see in the scriptures that we are to always be ready to tell why we believe the way we do, and so I am studying more of the Word and the things that are being presented out there so that I an do just that.
 
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savedandhappy1

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I thought it was about the number of evolutionists who are Christian being greater than the number of evolutionists who are atheist. It has nothing to do with god, jesus, a spirit, or the bible. It's statistics, which is a secular study.

Yep, a secular study which is being used to push evolution by saying that most Christians believe evolution. Which then makes it have something to do with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, because anytime it has to do with Christians it has something to do with them.
 
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Mallon

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Yep, a secular study which is being used to push evolution by saying that most Christians believe evolution. Which then makes it have something to do with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, because anytime it has to do with Christians it has something to do with them.
No one has ever said "most Christians believe in evolution", savedandhappy1! What is being said is that of the people in the US who believe in evolution, most of those people are Christians. This has been explained to you time and again, and still you won't listen. You are being very dense. Stop for a moment, get off your righteous high horse, and listen to what's being said.

Edit: I should probably appologize for the terse nature of my above comment, savedandhappy1. I'm sorry. It's very noble that you want to promote the cause of Christ. But in doing so, you don't appear to want to listen to anyone, and instead want to project onto others, which really does little to promote Christianity. We're all Christians here (with a few exceptions), so we're all working under the assumption that God is the creator of all. Now, let's move on and have a dialogue.
 
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Skaloop

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Yep, a secular study which is being used to push evolution by saying that most Christians believe evolution. Which then makes it have something to do with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, because anytime it has to do with Christians it has something to do with them.

You are not understanding. Nobody is saying most Christians are evolutionists, we are saying most evolutionists are Christian. And that is an undeniable fact; most evolutionists are Christian. But your reverse assertion doesn't follow from that.

It's like saying most astronauts are men. That does not mean that most men are astronauts.

If you can't grasp these basic issues of reading comprehension and statistics, how will you be able to weed out the lies you are being fed in your creation vs. evolution class? Because you are being fed lies if your teacher has in any way suggested that evolution is "just a theory." For two reasons. First, it is not "just" a theory. It is a fact as well, and an observable one at that. Secondly, being a theory in science is a good thing. There is nothing higher than a theory. And evolution is a better supported theory than gravity. If your teacher says otherwise, he is a liar or ignorant.

What sort of questions did you ask him? Perhaps we can provide answers that he could not. Or at least see for ourselves if he is teaching the reality about evolution, or lies about it.
 
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Assyrian

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Does this matter when it comes to salvation? You know I'm not sure, because if you can't believe the creation story can you believe that Christ really came to earth, that He dead on the cross and 3 days later rose from the dead?
Yes.

Of course I would disagree with you characterisation of 'not believing the creation story', I just don't interpret it literally. I am sure you don't take Jesus' 'this is my body' literally but I wouldn't say you don't believe Jesus.

Does it matter when it come to salvation? No. That is based on our relationship with Jesus, not our view of origins, though the issue can be a stumbling block.
 
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savedandhappy1

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Yes.

Of course I would disagree with you characterisation of 'not believing the creation story', I just don't interpret it literally. I am sure you don't take Jesus' 'this is my body' literally but I wouldn't say you don't believe Jesus.

Does it matter when it come to salvation? No. That is based on our relationship with Jesus, not our view of origins, though the issue can be a stumbling block.

So, can stumbling blocks not affect things in such a way that it could keep some people from salvation?

Could not the fact that some Christians do the things, I listed in the other post, cause confusion?

Is God the author of confusion?

See this is why I question if it affects salvation.

By the way thank you for your pleasant, but yet thought provoking replies to my post. I love speaking to people who can state their beliefs and why with out it seeming to coming out as something else.
 
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pastorkevin73

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Here is an interesting factoid:

If you took all of the the people in the U.S. who accept evolution and put them in a big room, the majority of people in that room would be Christians.

There are simply more Christian evolutionists than atheist/agnostic evolutionists.

I find this interesting.

^_^

I wonder how many of the are Christian like a lot of people mean, by name only and not true belief or if they are Bible believing, born again Christians (as if there were any other kind).
 
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Revelation1217

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alexwylde

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No, he isn't saying some Christians. Even the title says Most, which is why I was trying to show that the way the stats read were deceiving.

The subject here isn't "Christians". It is "evolutionists". If you read the topic, it says this: Most evolutionists are Christian.
Note that it doesn't say this: Most Christians are evolutionists.
So the title is not in any way talking about "Most Christians", it is talking about "Most evolutionists".

We can make just about anything say what we want it to say, and not really be lying. This is why we must really look at the full picture, and both sides to all issues we feel are important.

We can make just about anything say what we want it to say... especially when we don't read what it says for itself. ;)

I apologize if I appear rude. I'm simply pointing out error in your reading of this thread.
God bless.
 
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RiemannZ

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^_^

I wonder how many of the are Christian like a lot of people mean, by name only and not true belief or if they are Bible believing, born again Christians (as if there were any other kind).

Just go ahead and say it like you want to: No True Christian accepts evolution.
 
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Mallon

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Many people are starting to wake up to the fact that Darwinism is an anti-intellectual fairytale.
People have been saying that since the time of Darwin. Still, the overwhelming majority of scientists accept evolutionary theory. Here's a good bit of research debunking those claims that a growing number of scientists reject evolution:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty1Bo6GmPqM
 
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