Moshiach/G-d

[ChavaK]

From another thread here:

if Yeshua is not G~d, then why would I even consider Him my Messiah or Saviour?

I did not want to side track the other thread, so thought I would
ask this separately.

Why would one believe that the moshiach needs to be G-d?
Is it because Christians/Messianics have tied the moshiach
to personal salvation, while Jews do not?

Would there be a difference between what Trin/Non-Trin
Messianics believe regarding the moshiach being G-d, and
whether one role of the moshiach is to atone for personal
sin?

 

[anisavta]

For me - here are my three opinions -
There are too many prophesies from the Tanakh stating that Moshiach is G~d and must be fulfilled as such. Not going to take the time to post them because that is another thread and has been bantered around alot in other ones.
There are prophesies in the Tanakh that show Moshiach as not just a political saviour but a spiritual one too and only G~d can save a soul from eternal death dictated by sin (rebellion against the Holy One blessed be He).
Yeshua Himself spoke clearly that He indeed was/is Messiah.

 

[ChavaK]

Not going to take the time to post them because that is another thread and has been bantered around alot in other ones.

Do you happen to know where that thread is?

Yeshua Himself spoke clearly that He indeed was/is Messiah.

Did he also explicitly say he was G-d?

 

[anisavta]

When He said, "I and My Father are One" it sure got Him in trouble with the Religious Jews. They tried to stone Him for blasphemy.

John 10:

• 22.
• Then came Hanukkah in Yerushalayim. It was winter,

• 23.
• and Yeshua was walking around inside the Temple area, in Shlomo's Colonnade.

• 24.
• So the Judeans surrounded him and said to him, "How much longer are you going to keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us publicly!"

• 25.
• Yeshua answered them, "I have already told you, and you don't trust me. The works I do in my Father's name testify on my behalf,

• 26.
• but the reason you don't trust is that you are not included among my sheep.

• 27.
• My sheep listen to my voice, I recognize them, they follow me,

• 28.
• and I give them eternal life. They will absolutely never be destroyed, and no one will snatch them from my hands.

• 29.
• My Father, who gave them to me, is greater than all; and no one can snatch them from the Father's hands.

• 30.
• I and the Father are one."
  • 31.
  • Once again the Judeans picked up rocks in order to stone him.
  • 32.
  • Yeshua answered them, "You have seen me do many good deeds that reflect the Father's power; for which one of these deeds are you stoning me?"
  • 33.
  • The Judeans replied, "We are not stoning you for any good deed, but for blasphemy -- because you, who are only a man, are making yourself out to be God [Hebrew: Elohim]."

As far as the other threads go - not really sure which ones they were. I'm pretty sure they are in the MW thread. There were several that I recall.
I know if you Google something like "prophesies that Jesus (or Yeshua) fulfilled" you'd get a good list of scriptures.

 

[visionary]

After the order of Melchezek, without father or mother, .Psalm 110:3-5 (King James Version)

3Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

4The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

5The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.


..

 

[ORI]

For me - here are my three opinions -
There are too many prophesies from the Tanakh stating that Moshiach is G~d and must be fulfilled as such. Not going to take the time to post them because that is another thread and has been bantered around alot in other ones.
There are prophesies in the Tanakh that show Moshiach as not just a political saviour but a spiritual one too and only G~d can save a soul from eternal death dictated by sin (rebellion against the Holy One blessed be He).
Yeshua Himself spoke clearly that He indeed was/is Messiah.

Not to loose the OP’s original question but how do you view Moshe, the greatest of our prophets? Are the miracles performed through him lessened because he was human?

 

[anisavta]

No miracle is lessened when it is by the Hand of HaShem.
But Moshe could not forgive sin. And we know he is not our Moshiach.

Moses speaks of Moshiach in Deut. 18:

• 15.
• "ADONAI will raise up for you a prophet like me from among yourselves, from your own kinsmen. You are to pay attention to him,

• 16.
• just as when you were assembled at Horev and requested ADONAI your God, 'Don't let me hear the voice of ADONAI my God any more, or let me see this great fire ever again; if I do, I will die!'

• 17.
• On that occasion ADONAI said to me, 'They are right in what they are saying.

• 18.
• I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their kinsmen. I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I order him.

• 19.
• Whoever doesn't listen to my words, which he will speak in my name, will have to account for himself to me.

The Jewish people of Yeshua's day, after Yeshua feed a large crowd of them with a few fish and loaves of bread figured He must be the prophet Moshe spoke of in John 6:

• 14.
• When the people saw the miracle he had performed, they said, "This has to be `the prophet' who is supposed to come into the world."

Then when Stephen gave his "sermon" before he was stoned used Moshe as an illustration in pointing to Yeshua as Moshiach in Acts 7:

• 35.
• "This Moshe, whom they rejected, saying, 'Who made you a ruler and judge?' is the very one whom God sent as both ruler and ransomer by means of the angel that appeared to him in the thorn bush.

• 36.
• This man led them out, performing miracles and signs in Egypt, at the Red Sea and in the wilderness for forty years.

• 37.
• This is the Moshe who said to the people of Isra'el, 'God will raise up a prophet like me from among your brothers'

 

[visionary]

Not to loose the OP’s original question but how do you view Moshe, the greatest of our prophets? Are the miracles performed through him lessened because he was human?

Better question, who really performed the miracles, when Moshe obeyed God?

 

[dvd_holc]

Do you happen to know where that thread is?
[/color][/size][/color][/font]Did he also explicitly say he was G-d?

Jesus explicitly said He was God by the use of the imagery associated as God's.

 

[dvd_holc]

What does it mean to be divine?

 

[dvd_holc]

Also, several places in the Bible...from the Beginning, God appeared in 3's, but yet, He is described as being one...Genesis 1:1-3, creation was done by three who is God...and when was Moses was protect by the rock, God was spoken of in three. And in the Shema, God is spoken of as three...

 

[visionary]

IS not divine the same as Holy?

 

[ShirChadash]

Also, several places in the Bible...from the Beginning, God appeared in 3's, but yet, He is described as being one...Genesis 1:1-3, creation was done by three who is God...and when was Moses was protect by the rock, God was spoken of in three. And in the Shema, God is spoken of as three...

How so? (can you supply the specific verses, and show your point?)

 

[ChavaK]

Jewish law dictates that the Messiah will be divine, yes, but that he will NOT be G-d

Can you explain what you mean when you say moshiach will be "divine"?

 

[anisavta]

The Messiah will be a human being and not G-d "in the flesh".

Does not Emmanuel mean - G~d with man?

 

[visionary]

Divine - possessing Deity; having qualities or characteristics possessed by God.

 

[visionary]

Since God possesses the highest authority in the universe, only He can make the ultimate laws of right and wrong. When men violate those laws, only God can grant forgiveness and declare the terms of forgiveness.



Psalm 3:8 - Salvation belongs to Jehovah.

Psalm 37:39 - Salvation of the righteous is of Jehovah.

Isaiah 43:1,14 - Jehovah who created is also the Redeemer. He says, "I have redeemed you."

Isaiah 43:11 - Besides Jehovah there is no savior.

Titus 3:4,5 - God our Savior saved us according to His mercy.

Isaiah 45:15,17 - Jehovah, God of Israel, is the Savior who provides everlasting salvation.

 

[visionary]

Certain characteristics are unique to God.

Col 2:9 Yeshua possesses all the fullness of Deity
Heb 1:3 He is the very image of the Father
Phil 2:6 He had the form of God


Micah 5:2 A ruler would come from Bethlehem, but his goings forth were actually "from of old"
(Hebrews QEDEM), "from everlasting" (Hebrews OLAM)..90:1-4: Genesis 21:33; Isaiah 40:28; Deuteronomy 32:40

 

[dvd_holc]

How so? (can you supply the specific verses, and show your point?)

My statement assumes you know the bible...nevertheless,

Genesis 1:1 God
verse 2 Holy Spirit
verse 3 the Word

Exodus 34:ADONAI passed before him and proclaimed: "YUD-HEH-VAV-HEH!!! Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [ADONAI] is God, merciful and compassionate, slow to anger, rich in grace and truth;

So God was present and said: God 3 times

And do I really have to the Shema?

Sh'ma Yis'ra'eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad.
1, 2, 3...

 

[Kris10leigh]

What does it mean to be divine?

Good question! I have wondered this myself.