mortal sin

[flameingcrouton]

I was reading 1 John this morning, and I got to chapter 5 and it talked about sin not unto death. I asked some catholics about it, and they said that is where the idea of mortal sin comes from. I was wondering what the baptist view on mortal sin, and also on 1 John:16 is.

 

[bethdinsmore]

As a Baptist, I have been taught that a Christian can do something (or maybe more than one thing - different for each person) that would result in God choosing to take us Home early. An example is in Acts 5, Ananias and Sapphira. I John 5:16 seems to indicate that if we see a Christian in a sin we should pray for him, but we should not pray that God would not call him home early if it is a sin unto death.

Note this says the person would die, not lose their salvation.

Aloha in Jesus

 

[aReformedPatriot]

I was reading 1 John this morning, and I got to chapter 5 and it talked about sin not unto death. I asked some catholics about it, and they said that is where the idea of mortal sin comes from. I was wondering what the baptist view on mortal sin, and also on 1 John:16 is.

Good Question,

"The Bible clearly rejects the distinction between mortal and venial sin, As Paul says in Galations 3:10, quoting from Deuteronomy 27:26, "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: 'Cursed us everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the book of the law.'" If this is so, how can anyone say that certain sins, that is, certain ways of breaking God's law, do not bring one under this curse? James further reminds us that "whoever keeps the whole law, and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it" (Jas 2:10). Certainly a "venial sin" would be a "stumbling at one point."

...Rejecting the distinction between mortal and venial sins, however does not imply that are no differences or gradations in the seriousness of sin." (Anthony Hoekema, Created in God's Image p. 178).

1 John 5:16 on the other hand deals with the unpardonable sin. In the first part of the verse John encourages others to pray for the one whose sin does not lead to death, in the latter, one is encouraged not to pray for the one whose sin that leads to death. The context indicates that the former can be forgiven by God, "God will give him life" but says nothing for the latter.

"John Stott ties this sin with the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit described by Jesus in the Gospels, and suggests that the death to which this sin leads is, in fact "'the second death,' reserved for those whose names are not 'writen in the book of life' (Rev. xx.15,xxi.8)." (183-84).

 

[Wayseeker]

as Baptists we beleive that the blood of Christ covers all future sins and, since all sins are equal in the eyes of the LORD, no sin exists which can overcome our salvation. We are still held accountable for our sins and punished for them, but not to the point of losing salvation. Sin unto death is one way we may be punished. This usually occurs when a christian does some heinous act that would affect the witness of the church.

 

[MrJim]

as Baptists we beleive that the blood of Christ covers all future sins and, since all sins are equal in the eyes of the LORD, no sin exists which can overcome our salvation. We are still held accountable for our sins and punished for them, but not to the point of losing salvation. Sin unto death is one way we may be punished. This usually occurs when a christian does some heinous act that would affect the witness of the church.

Hey-welcome Wayseeker to the CF B/A forum!

 

[mesue]

ALL sin separates us from God therefore ALL sins are mortal. There's only one thing that can bring us into the presence of God and that's through the His Son Jesus Christ.

The sin unto death is a physical death for the saved and both physical and spiritual death for the lost. If I, a saved person, fall into temptation and comitt adultery and contract HIV, I will physically die. But I will not lose my salvation.

 

[aReformedPatriot]

The sin unto death is a physical death for the saved and both physical and spiritual death for the lost. If I, a saved person, fall into temptation and comitt adultery and contract HIV, I will physically die. But I will not lose my salvation.

What you say is essentially correct, however, I do not believe this is what this text is talking about. All sin leads to death, both physical and spiritual and this body is destined to die.

However, the spiritual is what is being discussed here. The very fact that God would deliver the one from "death" cannot mean a physical death as bodily death is what our flesh is cursed to do. Given that, the context refers to the spiritual not the physical.

Peace be with you,
Mark

 

[JPPT1974]

If you are a Christian, you have both a physical and spiritual birth.
If you are not a Christian, you have only a physical birth but both a spiritual and physcial death.
You are going to you know where if you don't have Christ as your Savior & Lord.

 

[DrDaveMD]

Some sins are worse then others, that is just common sense.

The Catholics may be wrong on a lot of things, this is not one of them.

 

[aReformedPatriot]

Some sins are worse then others, that is just common sense.

The Catholics may be wrong on a lot of things, this is not one of them.

Perhaps you do not understand. I do agree that their are gradations in terms of the seriousness of sins for example John 19:11 states, "Jesus answered him, 'You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above. Therefore he who delivered me over to you has the greater sin.'" And I am not sure many here would disagree with this.

The Catholic view of Mortal Sin states that when one commits an offense against God and the Church in a "grave or serious" manner they basically lose their Justification. If a Catholic were to die with a mortal sin on his soul before he is able to perform the Sacrament of Penance the he will go to hell. For instance, missing mass on a sunday when one is perfectly able to go is a mortal sin. You hold to this view as a Baptist?

When we are justified, God declares us not guilty which takes place at regeneration/salvation. This is how we can stand before God uncondemned and how we can know that we are not going to hell.

 

[humbleservant86]

The Catholic view of Mortal Sin states that when one commits an offense against God and the Church in a "grave or serious" manner they basically lose their Justification. If a Catholic were to die with a mortal sin on his soul before he is able to perform the Sacrament of Penance the he will go to hell. For instance, missing mass on a sunday when one is perfectly able to go is a mortal sin. You hold to this view as a Baptist?

It must be hard to be Catholic!

 

[Monica02]

It must be hard to be Catholic!

Mathew, chapter 7 verses 13-14:

Enter through the narrow gate...small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

[Ave Maria]

It must be hard to be Catholic!

You're right. It is hard to be Catholic. But then again, it was never meant to be easy.

 

[MrJim]

You mean I just can't sin and it's ok?

It was stated earlier that all sin has been covered by Christ's sacrifice. So you can sin every day in every way and still be ok. If you are going to be "punished" then the sin isn't really forgiven?

 

[mesue]

Some sins are worse then others, that is just common sense.

The Catholics may be wrong on a lot of things, this is not one of them.

ALL sin separates us from God, even the "little" ones. Otherwise, Christ is dead in vain.

 

[aReformedPatriot]

You mean I just can't sin and it's ok?

It was stated earlier that all sin has been covered by Christ's sacrifice. So you can sin every day in every way and still be ok. If you are going to be "punished" then the sin isn't really forgiven?

Thats not whats being said here. God never says he does not punish sin, what he does say is that we are no longer condemned. God chastizes those he loves, last I recall, that is punishment.

Anyone who believes that they can sin all they want because of Christ actually mocks Christ and his purpose and probably is not saved. The new Christian is reffered to as someone who is a babe in Christ is still living by the flesh which is why sanctification is nesscessary. 1 John says that one who is saved does not persist in sin and that we can have a solid idea of who is and is not a Christian by the fruit they produce.

 

[aReformedPatriot]

Mathew, chapter 7 verses 13-14:

Enter through the narrow gate...small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

The Christian walk is not a cake walk. It is difficult. What she was probably refferring to are the works one does to merit grace which is impossible.

 

[Hisbygrace]

What you say is essentially correct, however, I do not believe this is what this text is talking about. All sin leads to death, both physical and spiritual and this body is destined to die.

However, the spiritual is what is being discussed here. The very fact that God would deliver the one from "death" cannot mean a physical death as bodily death is what our flesh is cursed to do. Given that, the context refers to the spiritual not the physical.

Peace be with you,
Mark

I tend to agree with you. As a Baptist I believe that the sin that leads to physical and spiritual death is the rejection of Christ..

 

[flameingcrouton]

You mean I just can't sin and it's ok?

It was stated earlier that all sin has been covered by Christ's sacrifice. So you can sin every day in every way and still be ok. If you are going to be "punished" then the sin isn't really forgiven?

Just because you are forgiven, doesn't mean the consuquences are gone. If you murder someone's child, they may forgive you, but you will still go to jail. Forgivness doesn't mean you're off the hook from you're actions.

 

[flameingcrouton]

Mabey I need to clarify on the answers I need. I of course apriciate everyone's input, but I was more concerned about the baptist interpretation of the particular verse from 1 John. thnx