Not remotely.
LOL, I never said your understanding of LDS teaching is consistent with your understanding of Biblical teaching.
Perhaps I misread your comment but I saw it as a claim that LDS teaching is consistent with the Bible and that I dispute.
No, you read it correctly. While you could point to something you believe is non-biblical, I would explain why I don't believe it is, and we'd go round and round sure that if only the other would see reason, then they'd agree with us.
Instead, I accept that you believe there are contradictions. More-so, I understand why it appears that there are inconsistencies, and I don't begrudge you at all for your belief.
Dominic, which Christianity do you fully understand? I ask this because President and "Prophet" of the LDS Church, Mr. Hinkley states that Mormons do not believe in the same Messiah as all other Christians:
"No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages." (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7).
This is certainly true, for Joseph Smith Jr. claimed to be a better Church leader than Yeshua Himself, which cannot be true, for Yeshua is perfect. See here:
"God is in the still small voice. In all these affidavits, indictments, it is all of the devil--all corruption. Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet . . . " (History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 408-409)
I am Catholic, believe it or not.
I'm not quite sure how you can believe 100% of the teachings of the Catholic Church, yet still believe in Joseph Smith's writings, as they contradict each other. Joseph Smith said there are many gods, that Yahweh was once a human, and denied the Trinity (among other things).
So this is what you were talking about. It sounds very extreme doesn't it, yet the LDS church teaches that if you follow what you believe to be good, what you believe to be the word of God, then surely you will not be damned.
He has a total of four books if you exclude the book of Mormon.
So, are you suggesting that people's opinion on a matter aren't the final authority on what is and isn't true?
Joseph was addressing the popular teaching at the time that Jesus was literally begotten by the Holy Ghost in the classical manner. We don't know the details of Jesus' conception, other than that he is God the Father's literal son, and that the Holy Ghost attended Mary. The contradiction only comes from wild speculation concerning what should be the most sacred of events and does not exist with (again this word) an understanding of what is being said.
Without the actual quote of Brigham's to reference, I would have to speculate, though I have no doubt he said it, he said a great many things, and was very direct and blunt with everything. There were 2 main way polygamy was entered into, revelation or need. Brigham very much believed in an obligation to care for the poor and widows. A great number of polygamous marriages were of widows who would have been without a household at that time. Many others were intended to seal and unite the Lords people together. Regardless of the reason, it was a commandment, and not one most people relished. Between one wife being more than enough, and outside derision, there were many people skirting this 'commandment' while maintaining faithfulness to the rest. So Brigham was most surely addressing those people, who had an 'obligation' they were not fulfilling, and not a general statement concerning salvation.
And the "other President" did not prophecy the exact opposite. The Lord rescinded the commandment through a revelation. Though since you brought it up, Brigham did state that he did not believe polygamy would be a lasting commandment, and often made known his desire that it would be lifted to ease the problems it caused.
I don't know about you, but this seems like a pretty blatant contradiction:
"I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told. Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51).
"[20] But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." (Matthew 1:20, KJV)
Also, how can Mormon prophets contradict each other? Brigham Young says that all who do not practice polygamy are damned, yet another President "prophesied" the exact opposite (because Utah needed to become a state).
I don't believe it!
Which 4 books are you referring to? Joseph wrote or dictated a good amount.
Jesus was begotten of the Father, but conceived of the Holy Spirit.
The one thing I have not really looked into is this polygamy thing.
You better believe it!
Pearl of great price and some other things.
The Four Standard Works of Mormonism are the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, and Doctrines and Covenants, if I am not mistaken.
Could you explain and define "begotten" and "conceived" for us? If so, you might also want to add these definitions to my Mormon Lexicon thread.
Thanks.
Okay, well this seems to be the problem in the discussion: you believe that the Father is/was a human. Exaltation, I know. The thing is, I just don't understand exaltation. I side with Matt Slick on this one -- A logical proof that Mormonism is false | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
I have just put forward a question about this to some contacts I have. I'll get back to you most likely some time today explaining what the teachings of God the Father once being human are all about.
I do not know enough to actually be able to tell you myself.
I look forward to your answer, exaltation is one of the most confusing LDS teachings.
------
Props to all of my Mormon (and half-Mormon) brothers and sisters in this thread. The zeal you have for your religion has lead you to be able to answer my questions far better than the Mormons I know in real life.
P.S.: I hope I don't come off offensively to anyone, I'm just as curious as the next guy.
P.S.: I hope I don't come off offensively to anyone, I'm just as curious as the next guy.
Most mormons you'll meet will not be very open with you....
Some of the LDS posters here are open and courteous; others, not so much. (But that's true of the general population, as well, isn't it?) Trouble is, even the LDS posters often have differing ideas of what is and isn't officially taught as LDS doctrine. It changes, you see, and apparently it's not always easy to keep up with. For example, some things that used to be stressed in Mormonism are no longer...emphasized (I believe that was the word Gordon B. Hinckley used), even though officially they remain doctrine. It's no wonder it causes them confusion.
Some of the LDS posters here are open and courteous; others, not so much. (But that's true of the general population, as well, isn't it?) Trouble is, even the LDS posters often have differing ideas of what is and isn't officially taught as LDS doctrine. It changes, you see, and apparently it's not always easy to keep up with. For example, some things that used to be stressed in Mormonism are no longer...emphasized (I believe that was the word Gordon B. Hinckley used), even though officially they remain doctrine. It's no wonder it causes them confusion.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?