Mormon Questions

[CrownCaster]

You just got a testimomy of the Book of Mormon and you didnt know it!

ROTFLMBO!

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Hopefully soon. *crosses fingers*

Ya, I can just see it now "tonight we will be hearing the harmony of The church of jesus christ of latter-day saints tabernacle choir." As if the name of the lds church alone isn't already long enough, let's just add 2 more words to it! lol

Hey Ammon, wondering if you had found any medical information about the coffee and tea containing "tanic acid" rather than "tannins", that I asked you for earlier?

 

[happyinhisgrace]

sitting all warm and cozy by the fireplace, reading the Book of Mormon and thinking to oneself "what exactly is a curlom and did they really have wooden submarines way back then?" When out of no-where, three 3 nephites jump out of the flames of the fire place carrying gifts of car keys, a full gas can and a leihona and prepared to perform a special holiday dance that will reaffirm that the Book of Mormon is true. http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001

You just got a testimomy of the Book of Mormon and you didnt know it!

 

[neocon]

....................Fourth, the doctrine is that we are directed to abstain from Coffee, Tea,....................

Nothing mystical here- Coffee and Tea were forbidden in Brigant Young's time as the hard money was needed to bring in necessities from the East as opposed to luxuries. The easiest way to get people to obey was to have a 'revelation' as oppposed to reasoned debate.

 

[Christianboy25]

You just got a testimomy of the Book of Mormon and you didnt know it!

 

[ST:DS9]

Ya, I can just see it now "tonight we will be hearing the harmony of The church of jesus christ of latter-day saints tabernacle choir." As if the name of the lds church alone isn't already long enough, let's just add 2 more words to it! lol

Hey Ammon, wondering if you had found any medical information about the coffee and tea containing "tanic acid" rather than "tannins", that I asked you for earlier?

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/dec2001/1007419335.Ch.r.html
http://www.soycoffee.com/
http://www.farsinet.com/hottea/tannic_acid_in_tea.html
http://www.bartleby.com/65/ta/tannin-t.html
http://www.medical-library.net/sites/framer.html?/sites/_dhea_dihydroepiandosterone.html

I did a search on Google, and this is just a few. If I am understanding it right, tannic acid is a form of tannin. But either case tannin and tannic acid is bad for the body.

If you do a google search you should find more places about tannins and tannic acid in Coffee and Tea.

 

[MormonFriend]

Fourth, the doctrine is that we are directed to abstain from Coffee, Tea, Alchohol, and illegal drugs. This too comes by way of revelation, but it is unclear as to why, exactly, these substances are considered evil. Coffee and tea have caffeine, but so does Coke, and yet we are only advised not to drink Coke, not commanded to abstain. Coffe and tea also have tanic acid, which eats away the lining of one's stomach... even the decaf versions. Nevertheless, it is not know exactly why we are to abstain, only that we are to do so, and so we do so.

One aspect that has been surmized is we are to avoid all things that are addictive. Elder Oaks in our last conference stated that we surrender our free agency when we yield to addictions.

 

[MormonFriend]

Will "Mormonfriend" change his name?

I seem to remember him saying he did'nt mind the name.....


......stay tuned......

<><

That is "Mr." MormonFriend to you!

 

[cromis]

Just a couple of quick comments -

Why do Mormons believe that people are ranked in heaven, and that there are different levels of the celestial kingdom?

The notion that there are different levels in the Celestial Kingdom is not universally accepted by LDS. The discussion hinges around an interpretation of the phrase "celestial glory" found in the D&C.

Apart from that, the notion that there are three kingdoms of glory is universally accepted.

Secondly, why are Mormons forbidden to drink tea if it is decaffeinated

Without getting into the other discussion of "why", herbal teas are not forbidden. This is usually taken to mean the traditional "black" or "green" tea.

Later, Jason wrote:

It's not doctrine, but it's policy. Which means that if some future LDS president decides that he want's to drink coffee, he can and can change the "policy".

The Word of Wisdom wasn't even considered a specific commandment which had to be complied with prior to 1851. At that time, it was placed before the body of the church and ratified as a binding commandment on the church. Eventually, this was reflected (in a specific definition) in the policies regarding certain aspects of worship. Those not complying with the Word of Wisdom are not given offices in the Priesthood, not allowed to hold church callings, and not allowed to participate in temple worship. Apart from this, there is no ecclesiastical sanction for not following the Word of Wisdom.

Illegal drugs are not an explicit part of the Word of Wisdom (just as caffiene is not). However, the use, possession, and sale of illegal drugs is considered, well, illegal, which means that those who indulge in those behaviors are subject to ecclesiastical sanctions far beyond not keeping the Word of Wisdom (excommunication is always considered an option in dealing with convicted felons).

To get back to Jason's remarks - probably any significant relaxing of the current interpretation of the Word of Wisdom (which is relatively conservative in its scope) would need to be addressed by the church as a whole, and not just by the prophet. I admit though, that in this case, the definition embedded in the policies tends to be much more the focus than the definition created in the revelation - the doctrinal statement.

The policy statement which is usually uwsed the most is the question raised in the temple recommend interview:

"What is your understanding of the Word of Wisdom? Will you live this law by abstaining from tea, coffee, alcohol, tobacco [or other harmful drugs]?"

This is about as explicit as it gets (officially).

Ben

 

[CrownCaster]

sitting all warm and cozy by the fireplace, reading the Book of Mormon and thinking to oneself "what exactly is a curlom and did they really have wooden submarines way back then?" When out of no-where, three 3 nephites jump out of the flames of the fire place carrying gifts of car keys, a full gas can and a leihona and prepared to perform a special holiday dance that will reaffirm that the Book of Mormon is true.

PLEASE DONT EVER DO THAT TO ME AGAIN! MY SIDE HUUUUURTS!!!!

 

[CrownCaster]

One aspect that has been surmized is we are to avoid all things that are addictive. Elder Oaks in our last conference stated that we surrender our free agency when we yield to addictions.

mormons surrender their free agency when they submit to baptism. Are you signed up for "tithing settlement" yet?

 

[trinity2359]

You just got a testimomy of the Book of Mormon and you didnt know it!

Too funny!

 

[happyinhisgrace]

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/dec2001/1007419335.Ch.r.html
http://www.soycoffee.com/
http://www.farsinet.com/hottea/tannic_acid_in_tea.html
http://www.bartleby.com/65/ta/tannin-t.html
http://www.medical-library.net/sites/framer.html?/sites/_dhea_dihydroepiandosterone.html

I did a search on Google, and this is just a few. If I am understanding it right, tannic acid is a form of tannin. But either case tannin and tannic acid is bad for the body.

If you do a google search you should find more places about tannins and tannic acid in Coffee and Tea.

Thanks STD, I will read each of those when I have the time (hopefully sometime today). Everything I have ever read says that tannins are good for the body and contain healing properties. This should be interesting reading.

 

[unbound]

sitting all warm and cozy by the fireplace, reading the Book of Mormon and thinking to oneself "what exactly is a curlom and did they really have wooden submarines way back then?" When out of no-where, three 3 nephites jump out of the flames of the fire place carrying gifts of car keys, a full gas can and a leihona and prepared to perform a special holiday dance that will reaffirm that the Book of Mormon is true. http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001

 

[joebobned]

There's not really a whole lot of relevence behind my post...but IMO, as an LDS, I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything by abstaining from alcohol, tobacco, illegal drugs, coffee, or tea.

Most of those have obvious and visible side effects that are easy for me to avoid.

 

[JaneKaty13]

Gee, and I thought it was just a lot of people singing and a burning log.

 

[ST:DS9]

Thanks STD, I will read each of those when I have the time (hopefully sometime today). Everything I have ever read says that tannins are good for the body and contain healing properties. This should be interesting reading.

Oh sure, now you are calling me names, you're calling me a sexually transmitted disease (STD) J/K

Well, I did more research on tannins. Tannins may cause migraines in some people. But there are good effect of tannins also, and seems to be more common then the migraines.

But from what I have read, there is tannic acid in coffee and tea, which is definetly bad for the body.

 

[skylark1]

But from what I have read, there is tannic acid in coffee and tea, which is definetly bad for the body.

STDS9, please check the chemical formula for tea tannins and tannic acid. They are not the same.

The formula for Tannic Acid (Acidum Tannicum) is:

C14 H10 O9
​

The formula for Tea Tannins is:

C20 H20 O9
​

http://www.teatalk.com/science/tannin.htm




Tea Composition, Consumption, and Polyphenol Chemistry

Tea is grown in about 30 countries but is consumed worldwide, although at greatly varying levels. It is the most widely consumed beverage aside from water with a per capita worldwide consumption of approximately 0.12 liter per year. Tea is manufactured in three basic forms. Green tea is prepared in such a way as to preclude the oxidation of green leaf polyphenols. During black tea production oxidation is promoted so that most of these substances are oxidized. Oolong tea is a partially oxidized product. Of the approximately 2.5 million metric tons of dried tea manufactured, only 20% is green tea and less than 2% is oolong tea. Green tea is consumed primarily in China, Japan, and a few countries in North Africa and the Middle East. Fresh tea leaf is unusually rich in the flavanol group of polyphenols known as catechins which may constitute up to 30% of the dry leaf weight. Other polyphenols include flavanols and their glycosides, and depsides such as chlorogenic acid, coumarylquinic acid, and one unique to tea, theogallin (3-galloylquinic acid). Caffeine is present at an average level of 3% along with very small amounts of the other common methylxanthines, theobromine and theophylline. The amino acid theanine (5-N-ethylglutamine) is also unique to tea. Tea accumulates aluminum and manganese. In addition to the normal complement of plant cell enzymes, tea leaf contains an active polyphenol oxidase which catalyzes the aerobic oxidation of the catechins when the leaf cell structure is disrupted during black tea manufacture. The various quinones produced by the enzymatic oxidations undergo condensation reactions which result in a series of compounds, including bisflavanols, theaflavins, epitheaflavic acids, and thearubigens, which impart the characteristic taste and color properties of black tea. Most of these compounds readily form complexes with caffeine. There is no tannic acid in tea. Thearubigens constitute the largest mass of the extractable matter in black tea but their composition is not well known. Proanthocyanidins make up part of the complex. Tea peroxidase may be involved in their generation. The catechin quinones also initiate the formation of many of the hundreds of volatile compounds found in the black tea aroma fraction. Green tea composition is very similar to that of the fresh leaf except for a few enzymatically catalyzed changes which occur extremely rapidly following plucking. New volatile substances are produced during the drying stage. Oolong tea is intermediate in composition between green and black teas.
http://www.farsinet.com/hottea/

 

[ST:DS9]

STDS9, please check the chemical formula for tea tannins and tannic acid. They are not the same.

The formula for Tannic Acid (Acidum Tannicum) is:

C14 H10 O9
​

The formula for Tea Tannins is:

C20 H20 O9
​

http://www.teatalk.com/science/tannin.htm




Tea Composition, Consumption, and Polyphenol Chemistry

Tea is grown in about 30 countries but is consumed worldwide, although at greatly varying levels. It is the most widely consumed beverage aside from water with a per capita worldwide consumption of approximately 0.12 liter per year. Tea is manufactured in three basic forms. Green tea is prepared in such a way as to preclude the oxidation of green leaf polyphenols. During black tea production oxidation is promoted so that most of these substances are oxidized. Oolong tea is a partially oxidized product. Of the approximately 2.5 million metric tons of dried tea manufactured, only 20% is green tea and less than 2% is oolong tea. Green tea is consumed primarily in China, Japan, and a few countries in North Africa and the Middle East. Fresh tea leaf is unusually rich in the flavanol group of polyphenols known as catechins which may constitute up to 30% of the dry leaf weight. Other polyphenols include flavanols and their glycosides, and depsides such as chlorogenic acid, coumarylquinic acid, and one unique to tea, theogallin (3-galloylquinic acid). Caffeine is present at an average level of 3% along with very small amounts of the other common methylxanthines, theobromine and theophylline. The amino acid theanine (5-N-ethylglutamine) is also unique to tea. Tea accumulates aluminum and manganese. In addition to the normal complement of plant cell enzymes, tea leaf contains an active polyphenol oxidase which catalyzes the aerobic oxidation of the catechins when the leaf cell structure is disrupted during black tea manufacture. The various quinones produced by the enzymatic oxidations undergo condensation reactions which result in a series of compounds, including bisflavanols, theaflavins, epitheaflavic acids, and thearubigens, which impart the characteristic taste and color properties of black tea. Most of these compounds readily form complexes with caffeine. There is no tannic acid in tea. Thearubigens constitute the largest mass of the extractable matter in black tea but their composition is not well known. Proanthocyanidins make up part of the complex. Tea peroxidase may be involved in their generation. The catechin quinones also initiate the formation of many of the hundreds of volatile compounds found in the black tea aroma fraction. Green tea composition is very similar to that of the fresh leaf except for a few enzymatically catalyzed changes which occur extremely rapidly following plucking. New volatile substances are produced during the drying stage. Oolong tea is intermediate in composition between green and black teas.
http://www.farsinet.com/hottea/

Yet in that same website on a different page, they say there is Tannic Acid in tea. (Farsinet)

 

[happyinhisgrace]

I've got to go with what skylark posted here. Tea seems to have a lot more benefits to it than it does bad effects. I also agree that there is no tanic acid in tea.

Tea is great for so many things. Tea and coffee are good for asthma (I know this first hand, unfortunatly), there is tea that helps you sleep, tea that minimizes menstral cramps, tea that help curve appitites, green tea is used in treatment of cancer patiants, there are teas that increase your energy level, teas to help get rid of headaches and keep them from reacurring. There are teas that help maintain a healthy digestive system, tea is a great thing for the body in many situations. It is silly that is against the WofW. As if God would tell people not to drink something that he created that helps our bodies in so many ways.