More than half of minority teacher applicants fail test

[Vylo]

Yep. I couldn't agree more.

So... the fact that somebody has a college degree does not automatically make him/her either smart nor well educated.

Too many variables.

Beyond that. A degree itself is 100% meaningless. You can buy a degree online for $185. A degree has to first be from an acredited school. Then it means something at least, but then you have to look at which college it was at.

People see my college (TCNJ), and are impressed (if they recognize the name, since it was changed from Trenton State College). People see Princeton, Yale, Harvard, and they are impressed. Rutgers hold prestige too, especially in NJ. Have a degree from a most county college though, and you might get overlooked for some positions. Also depends on major and job. If I went looking for a job as a social worker, I'd be hired in days if not hours. I have engineering licenses, so I don't have any trouble finding stationary engineering jobs either.

But if I wanted to be a lawyer, even if I had a law degree from TCNJ, it wouldn't impress anyone. Our college isn't known for it. We catered primarily to Education, Biology, Nursing, and our Engineering department was growing in reputation.

 

[trunks2k]

How would you know that since you weren't in college 20 years ago?

Taking into account the amount of work we had to do, how difficult that work was, and the number of kids that dropped out or failed, I find it hard to believe that it was much harder 20 years ago. Granted, for my program some things were easier, but that was due to technology (i.e. being able to work from home, and being able to search google). Also, while the school had significantly increased it's size over the past 20 years, the rate of graduating students remained pretty constant while the school's prestige has consistently risen.

When you have three CS students spending an (quite literally) entire weekend working together on three Calc IV problems to the point that the entire dorm room is covered with calculus (we had this awesome white board paper that stuck to the walls) still couldn't get the answer to at least one question, and then spent the next entire class working on the problem with the professor, and barely finished in time, I think that's a good indicator of the level of difficulty. I've also had multiple CS assignments that ate up entire weeks of my time, and of the entire class of 50 people, only 5 people got it working correctly (including myself). Stuff like that was not uncommon.

 

[Vylo]

Sociology is for sissies!

Actually, sociology is absolutely fascinating to me. What kind of job did you land in? One that's directly due to your degree? Just curious...

Actually I'm a boiler worker, just like my father. I found sociology and theology fascinating, and I can get a job in the field no problem, but it pays nothing. I am also interested in engineering (I actually started as an electrical engineering major). I ended up working at the college boiler room during the summer, and got interested in it and got my blue on blue seal. I then went into an internship for with the Board of Public utilities for the renewable energy program. Budget cuts happened and no job was available. When the job hunt started, I saw social work jobs paying 30-40k, and boiler jobs paying 50k +. It was a no brainer for me. I went to work at a methane burner near NYC, and now I work at a chocolate factory near home, back in their boiler room. I enjoy working with small turbines, while my father seems to like the monster ones (his plant produces over 1000 MW).

Right now I'm in something of a lull. My next plan is to get electrical training and PLC training so I can do work on controls.

I'm saving tons of money, so my future is somewhat open. I might go back into the social field, I have considered going back to college and getting a degree in theology, and even another in engineering.

 

[trunks2k]

Rutgers hold prestige too, especially in NJ. Have a degree from a most county college though, and you might get overlooked for some positions. Also depends on major and job.

But if I wanted to be a lawyer, even if I had a law degree from TCNJ, it wouldn't impress anyone. Our college isn't known for it. We catered primarily to Education, Biology, Nursing, and our Engineering department was growing in reputation.

*Nod* I went to Drexel. When it comes to engineering and computer science it's a school that looks very good on a resume. My mom was worried about my job opportunities after graduating since the job market in my field is not what it used to be. She ended up meeting a manager for some big software company, and was asking him what my prospects would be like. She told him where I was going to school and he said I had absolutely nothing to worry about - I'd probably have offers before I even left school. Which was true. Months before I was done with school, I had three job offers.

But had I graduated Drexel with a degree in, say, biology, then I'd have a much tougher time.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

Actually I'm a boiler worker, just like my father. I found sociology and theology fascinating, and I can get a job in the field no problem, but it pays nothing. I am also interested in engineering (I actually started as an electrical engineering major). I ended up working at the college boiler room during the summer, and got interested in it and got my blue on blue seal. I then went into an internship for with the Board of Public utilities for the renewable energy program. Budget cuts happened and no job was available. When the job hunt started, I saw social work jobs paying 30-40k, and boiler jobs paying 50k +. It was a no brainer for me. I went to work at a methane burner near NYC, and now I work at a chocolate factory near home, back in their boiler room. I enjoy working with small turbines, while my father seems to like the monster ones (his plant produces over 1000 MW).

Right now I'm in something of a lull. My next plan is to get electrical training and PLC training so I can do work on controls.

I'm saving tons of money, so my future is somewhat open. I might go back into the social field, I have considered going back to college and getting a degree in theology, and even another in engineering.

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing!

It is interesting, isn't it, how many blue-collar jobs pay far more than white-collar jobs - some of which require advanced college degrees?

I love what I do, but there have been many times, over the last 20 years, when I've thought, "Dang, it would be so nice to punch out at 5:00 PM and not be getting called at all hours of the day or night - to have a job with more neatly defined parameters!".

Anyway, though I too share your fascination with sociology, I didn't get a degree in it.

 

[Sphere]

Yes, exactly.

In addition, you can graduate from college with a D average.

I would propose that Affirmative Action makes it much easier to maintain a D average as well.

Depends on the school I suppose. No one is graduating from my university with a D average, MINIMUM GPA (for associates and bachelors) acceptable before suspension(or dropped from the school) is a 2.5. Which while abysmal is actually a little higher than "C". As per individual courses and credits, a C- or below is considered a failing grade and isn't counted towards progress on your degree. For the most part, a C- or below is 75% or lower. At the masters level, a 3.0 GPA has to be maintained(3.5 for PH.D) and any grade lower than a B (about an 85%) for any graduate level work isn't counted.

 

[Sphere]

Yes, it was later in the article the talked of teacher assessment, which was misleading. In that case, this is a no brainer. Minorities who got through college because of who they are rather than how hard they worked are failing tests, proving that Affirmative Action doesn't work.

Education has to be dumbed down for Affirmative Action to be successful. What's the point of allowing unqulaified, or lesser qualified students into college if they are just going to be flunked out.

Again, depends on the school. My courses have routine failure rates of roughly 50%. My favorite professor had a failure rate of roughly 75%, and taught with a law school curve. Meaning on a test if everyone got a 100% and you got a 99%, that is considered an "F". I won't deny that there could be some schools out there which give unfair advantage to minorities, but they would definitely represent the exception rather than the rule.

 

[trunks2k]

I won't deny that there could be some schools out there which give unfair advantage to minorities, but they would definitely represent the exception rather than the rule.

I think this is generally what's going on in regards to the complaints about AA. It seems to me that all the stuff about unqualified minorities being hired over qualified non-minorities seems to be based solely on anecdotes. Does it happen some places? Sure, it probably does. Does it happen in a significant percentage of places? I'm not convinced it does.

 

[AirPo]

Certaintly not enough to account for a more than double failure rate.

 

[Zigarrote]

RacismIsBad

Yay, I'm inferior!

I’m sorry you feel that way. Let it be noted, I don’t know you, nor have I ever made a statement about you personally. It’s perfectly clear that I was speaking about group generalities. There are always individual exceptions which tend to prove the rule. Perhaps you are an exception. If so, congratulations.

I guess going to an Ivy League institution for graduate school and being in the 90 percentile on my GRE had to come from the "infusion" of European blood (about 13%).

I’m sure it contributed. It certainly couldn’t have hurt.

Or perhaps it was the "infusion" of Indian blood? Or the Chinese blood? Because it's obvious the majority African blood makes me less than others.

Score one for racism!

Please refer back to my initial comments. I stand by them, but you are free to read things into them that aren’t there, if that excites you.

Criminology

Subtle message, in that heap of lies you have there. I think it explains you well.

Unfortunately for you, those are the facts, not a “heap of lies”. Granted, you may be ignorant of the subject, in which case my suggestion is that you do a little research (it’s easy!) and enlighten yourself, instead of calling me a liar. Good day.