LDS More Problems With Brigham Young

[Rescued One]

Well for one thing I trust the Bible...

If that were true, you would reject Mormonism.

There is an overwhelming lack of understanding in the world in relation to these principles of salvation and exaltation given to prepare mankind for a place in the kingdom of God, and this lack causes many to stumble. There is no excuse on the part of members of the Church, for they have received the necessary revelation directly from the heavens in this Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. The great mission of the Son of God has been revealed in the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants more clearly than any other place. Many passages that have been misunderstood, and therefore mistranslated in the Bible, are clarified in these sacred volumes.
Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols. [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1957-1966], 4:.

This is what the LDS teach about the Bible:

Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13: 24-29
24 And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God.

25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God.

26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.

27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men.

28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.

29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.

 

[Rescued One]

You said: "You know that your church began by criticizing all existing churches that were not yours!"

Any church that does not empathize keeping the commandments is Biblically wrong.

Any church that invents false deities, fickle teachings and lies about the Bible is wrong.

 

[mmksparbud]

It is the differences between our religions that make for debate, not the similarities. I debate mostly from the Bible and the teachings thereof. I have found that many of the people on this debate forum do not agree with the Bible.

ROTFLOL!!! I lost count how many times I was scolded by you guys at first for talking about the differences between us and you guys would constantly tell me---"We need to talk about the ways we are similar, not the ways we are different!" I was the one stating---"This is a debating website---you can not debate similarities only differences!!"

Well, well, well---- Finally we agree on something!!!

 

[dzheremi]

I suppose we could debate on who is twisting the scriptures.

We could, but do you think you wouldn't know in advance how it would go? Are large numbers of Christians really suddenly going to agree with you, or large number of Mormons with me?

I mean, I could reorganize my sock drawer, paint my bathroom, or do any other thing that might actually improve my life with that time, but if you have specific things to say -- not just this "I know you are, but what am I" juvenile claptrap, which doesn't really merit a response (and I was wrong to respond to here) -- then I wouldn't hesitate to address them, so that you would not continue in your error regarding others' beliefs. I just want it known in writing beforehand (like this post right here) that I know full well that it will degenerate to "well that's just what these sinful men in the middle of the great apostasy say; that's not the Bible" whenever I quote any of the commentaries of the same by the fathers of any age or pedigree, and that likewise I will never accept anything that any Mormon leader says about anything, because Christ has no accord with Belial, or the makers of modern pagan pantheons like Joseph Smith.

But again, if you know that at the outset and still want to register your complaints, I will set up such a thread. (Since I don't think Mormons are allowed to make threads, right?)

Just know that when it is over, I will not accept anymore of your "tu quoque" fallacy in lieu of an actual substantial point, which you have not to date shown that you are even capable of making.

 

[dzheremi]

I suppose we could debate on who is twisting the scriptures.

There. I made a thread where you can say whatever it is you feel you need to say.

Merry much belated Christmas.

 

[He is the way]

Any church that invents false deities, fickle teachings and lies about the Bible is wrong.

And I say again: "Any church that does not empathize keeping the commandments is Biblically wrong."

 

[Rescued One]

And I say again: "Any church that does not empathize keeping the commandments is Biblically wrong."

I've said before that I've never been in a church that said we should not obey Christ. The Holy Spirit inspires Christians.You don't understand how God guides His sheep!

 

[He is the way]

I've said before that I've never been in a church that said we should not obey Christ. The Holy Spirit inspires Christians.You don't understand how God guides His sheep!

If everyone kept the two great commandments of LOVE there would be no reason for debate. Joy and happiness would pervade the earth, and it would be a much better place. We can be free from sin through repentance and works meet for repentance.

 

[mmksparbud]

If everyone kept the two great commandments of LOVE there would be no reason for debate. Joy and happiness would pervade the earth, and it would be a much better place. We can be free from sin through repentance and works meet for repentance.

Get real---there is no Christian church on this planet that says it is OK to break God's commandments! The only commandment there is any disagreement on is--of course---the 4th. And that is a matter of which day it is.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I don't see how Adam talked to God if he is God.

I don't disagree. Evidently Brigham Young interpreted it differently or considered the text of Genesis unreliable.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I suppose we could debate on who is twisting the scriptures.

There's really not much of a debate. You follow prophets and leaders who twist scripture to fit their theology (JST, for example); we follow those who actually recorded scripture.

 

[He is the way]

I don't disagree. Evidently Brigham Young interpreted it differently or considered the text of Genesis unreliable.

Did Jesus pray to Himself?

 

[He is the way]

There's really not much of a debate. You follow prophets and leaders who twist scripture to fit their theology (JST, for example); we follow those who actually recorded scripture.

Joseph Smith did record scripture.

 

[dzheremi]

Joseph Smith did record scripture.

Joseph Smith recorded fantasies that justified his pederasty and racism. They're not scripture by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[He is the way]

Joseph Smith recorded fantasies that justified his pederasty and racism. They're not scripture by any stretch of the imagination.

Pederasty and racism? Reference needed!

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Did Jesus pray to Himself?

Is this a lead, to attack Trinity?

I don't see how this helps to defend Brigham Young's belief in the Adam/God theory.

 

[He is the way]

Is this a lead, to attack Trinity?

I don't see how this helps to defend Brigham Young's belief in the Adam/God theory.

Brigham Young was not perfect, neither were any of the other prophets of God except Jesus Christ. They all made mistakes.

 

[dzheremi]

Brigham Young was not perfect, neither were any of the other prophets of God except Jesus Christ. They all made mistakes.

How does attacking the Trinity relate in any way to defending Brigham Young?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Brigham Young was not perfect, neither were any of the other prophets of God except Jesus Christ. They all made mistakes.

That's a pretty big mistake to make. I could understand if he gave into some human temptation to sin but to be so wrong on the identity of God as his living Prophet?

 

[He is the way]

How does attacking the Trinity relate in any way to defending Brigham Young?

Adam talked with God therefore Adam is not God. Jesus did not pray to Himself, therefore Jesus is NOT the Father. These are Bible truths. I am saying that Brigham Young was wrong.