LDS More Problems With Brigham Young

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I do not believe that Brigham Young advocated the Adam God theory. I believe His speech was written down wrong in the JOD. The "--" indicates that part of his talk is missing.

Even Fair Mormon admit's he taught this doctrine.

Look at what Brigham said:


He made the best known, and probably earliest, controversial statement in a sermon given on 9 April 1852:

Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken—He is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later. They came here, organized the raw material, and arranged in their order the herbs of the field, the trees, the apple, the peach, the plum, the pear, and every other fruit that is desirable and good for man; the seed was brought from another sphere, and planted in this earth. The thistle, the thorn, the brier, and the obnoxious weed did not appear until after the earth was cursed. When Adam and Eve had eaten of the forbidden fruit, their bodies became mortal from its effects, and therefore their offspring were mortal.[1]

Also every other source I can find online indicates that he taught this doctrine. So given that it is apparent fact that Brigham Young believed and taught a false conception of God, would you say this implicates his credibility somewhat?

 

[dzheremi]

Mormons are clearly in denial. It's the only way they can sustain their belief in this complete nutjob.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Brigham Young knew that Adam spoke to God in the garden of Eden. It is obvious that part of Brigham Young's speech is missing from this text.

Pure speculation on your part. Saying that someone dozed off is a lame excuse to something you can't explain.

 

[He is the way]

Even Fair Mormon admit's he taught this doctrine.

Look at what Brigham said:


He made the best known, and probably earliest, controversial statement in a sermon given on 9 April 1852:

Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken—He is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later. They came here, organized the raw material, and arranged in their order the herbs of the field, the trees, the apple, the peach, the plum, the pear, and every other fruit that is desirable and good for man; the seed was brought from another sphere, and planted in this earth. The thistle, the thorn, the brier, and the obnoxious weed did not appear until after the earth was cursed. When Adam and Eve had eaten of the forbidden fruit, their bodies became mortal from its effects, and therefore their offspring were mortal.[1]

Also every other source I can find online indicates that he taught this doctrine. So given that it is apparent fact that Brigham Young believed and taught a false conception of God, would you say this implicates his credibility somewhat?

The Adam God theory has never been a official doctrine of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. It is NOT included in any of our scriptures. It is NOT a commandment from God. It is NOT taught in any of our lesson manuals. Do you believe Davids writings or did his immorality take away from his credibility? Even Isaiah made a prophesy that did not come to pass.

 

[He is the way]

Mormons are clearly in denial. It's the only way they can sustain their belief in this complete nutjob.

People who live in glass houses should not throw rocks.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

The Adam God theory has never been a official doctrine of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. It is NOT included in any of our scriptures. It is NOT a commandment from God. It is NOT taught in any of our lesson manuals. Do you believe Davids writings or did his immorality take away from his credibility? Even Isaiah made a prophesy that did not come to pass.

I never said it was official doctrine, only that one of your Prophets taught it and considered it a revelation from God. Does a Prophet need the Church's sanction to deem something he has received from God true? One wonders why Mormons are so insistent on Prophets in order to have a legitimate Church in that case then (when you are free to dismiss them when they become inconvenient).

Surely, at the very least, this means the Idea is a legitimate one right?

 

[dzheremi]

People who live in glass houses should not throw rocks.

And people who don't know what the hell they're talking about have no grounds to make any comment like you've just made. The difference is that I've looked into what Brigham Young actually said, and have no interest in trying to soften it to make the satanic Mormon cult look better than it is.

 

[He is the way]

I never said it was official doctrine, only that one of your Prophets taught it and considered it a revelation from God. Does a Prophet need the Church's sanction to deem something he has received from God true? One wonders why Mormons are so insistent on Prophets in order to have a legitimate Church in that case then (when you are free to dismiss them when they become inconvenient).

Surely, at the very least, this means the Idea is a legitimate one right?

I don't see how Adam talked to God if he is God.

 

[He is the way]

And people who don't know what the hell they're talking about have no grounds to make any comment like you've just made. The difference is that I've looked into what Brigham Young actually said, and have no interest in trying to soften it to make the satanic Mormon cult look better than it is.

What I am saying is that you like to question my beliefs when your own beliefs are also questionable.

 

[Rescued One]

Like I said, "I don't watch these types of videos as I don't want to popularize them. People like to add a lot of their own precepts to them. If someone has a point to make let them just say it."

So who were these church leaders? Because my research says there weren't any. In fact apostle Orson Pratt, rejected the Adam God doctrine and the Adam God doctrine died with the death of Brigham Young.

Well, let's hope no one watches Mormon propoganda videos or General Conferences.

 

[Rescued One]

I don't see how Adam talked to God if he is God.

Your gods have mouths and voices, don't they? Think about it!

 

[Rescued One]

The Adam God theory has never been a official doctrine of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. It is NOT included in any of our scriptures. It is NOT a commandment from God. It is NOT taught in any of our lesson manuals. Do you believe Davids writings or did his immorality take away from his credibility? Even Isaiah made a prophesy that did not come to pass.

I never found a heavenly mother in your faux scriptures!

 

[dzheremi]

What I am saying is that you like to question my beliefs when your own beliefs are also questionable.

So go ahead and question them, in an appropriate thread (this is not that thread). Again, the difference being that I do not have to run away from what the bishops of my Church have taught, unlike how Mormons are clearly running away from what Brigham Young taught. Apparently Brigham Young's theology is not worth defending. I would never say the same about Orthodox theology, which is a hill I will gladly die on.

So maybe you can defend your religion for once without reference to me or my religion...?

 

[dzheremi]

Well, let's hope no one watches Mormon propoganda videos or General Conferences.

I do (the conferences, not so much the feel good propaganda videos), but only because if I was to leave it up to Mormons here I wouldn't catch half the things that their leaders actually say, since they downplay or deny the stuff that is clearly meant for the believing Mormon but sounds really weird and bad to actual Christians...kinda like they do with Brigham Young's Adam-God theory!

 

[He is the way]

Well, let's hope no one watches Mormon propoganda videos or General Conferences.

Then don't watch.

 

[Rescued One]

What I am saying is that you like to question my beliefs when your own beliefs are also questionable.

You know that your church began by criticizing all existing churches that were not yours!

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints affirms to the world that after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ and the subsequent death of his apostles, there was a falling away--- an altering or a rejecting of his revealed word. The long night of apostasy lasted well over a millennium. During this period, man-made creeds and practices were substituted for the plan of salvation that Jesus had taught."
Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual, 1986, p. 59

Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10
“Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil.”

 

[He is the way]

So go ahead and question them, in an appropriate thread (this is not that thread). Again, the difference being that I do not have to run away from what the bishops of my Church have taught, unlike how Mormons are clearly running away from what Brigham Young taught. Apparently Brigham Young's theology is not worth defending. I would never say the same about Orthodox theology, which is a hill I will gladly die on.

So maybe you can defend your religion for once without reference to me or my religion...?

It is the differences between our religions that make for debate, not the similarities. I debate mostly from the Bible and the teachings thereof. I have found that many of the people on this debate forum do not agree with the Bible.

 

[dzheremi]

It is the differences between our religions that make for debate, not the similarities. I debate mostly from the Bible and the teachings thereof. I have found that many of the people on this debate forum do not agree with the Bible.

Not agreeing with your religion's twisting of our scriptures is most emphatically not "not [agreeing] with the Bible."

 

[He is the way]

You know that your church began by criticizing all existing churches that were not yours!

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints affirms to the world that after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ and the subsequent death of his apostles, there was a falling away--- an altering or a rejecting of his revealed word. The long night of apostasy lasted well over a millennium. During this period, man-made creeds and practices were substituted for the plan of salvation that Jesus had taught."
Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual, 1986, p. 59

Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10
“Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil.”

You said: "You know that your church began by criticizing all existing churches that were not yours!"

Any church that does not empathize keeping the commandments is Biblically wrong.

 

[He is the way]

Not agreeing with your religion's twisting of our scriptures is most emphatically not "not [agreeing] with the Bible."

I suppose we could debate on who is twisting the scriptures.