More on Trumpets

[MidnightCry]

Rev. 8:2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets.

Rev. 8:6 Then the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared to sound them.

Why are the angels given seven trumpets and why do they sound them?

Trumpets can be found many places in the Old Testament. Trumpets were used to announce the presence of God (Exodus 19:16-19, 20:18), the surrounding of Jericho (Joshua 6:4-20), the gathering of the people (Judges 3:27, 6:34), the announcement of news (1st Samuel 13:3, 2nd Samuel 6:15, 2nd Samuel 20:1), the signal that war is finished (2nd Samuel 2:28, 2nd Samuel 18:16, 20:22), and the announcement of a new king (1st Kings 1:34, 39, 41; 2nd Kings 9:13). The seven trumpets do all these things. The seven trumpets are the wake-up call to the Church; and they announce the time of tribulation has begun.

The trumpets also accomplish other objectives. One objective is confrontation. God wants to confront the false religions of the world with "gospel truth." The first four trumpets will set the stage for this confrontation. When billions of people see the sudden destruction of wicked places all over Earth and the death of 25% of the world's population, everyone will be in a state of shock and anguish. Mankind will realize that they are dealing with an angry God. Political and religious leaders will unite with a solution to appease God. Their solution will stand in direct opposition to what God actually wants, and the confrontation between man's solution and God's plan will begin.

Another objective of the seven trumpets is redemption. The shock of the first four trumpets will shatter religious paradigms. All people, despite religious backgrounds, will listen and intelligently consider a gospel that is different from anything they have ever heard. Right now there is great antagonism between Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Atheists, Catholics, Protestants and Pagans.Overwhelming destruction will cause people to listen to the gospel like never before. Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

We know that the Bible is for all people. Revelation tells us what will happen all over the globe and involves all nations before the return of Christ. The trumpets will affect the entire world.

That is why it makes no sense to place the trumpets in the past. What purpose do they serve by having occurred long ago and affecting only a small population of people?

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Interested to see where you go with this...

 

[MidnightCry]

Are the trumpets literal or symbolic?

Each trumpet judgment produces a literal result. For example, fire comes down from the sky and burns up a third of the trees and vegetation. A third of the ships sink after a great mountain impacts the sea. Real people die from drinking poisoned water after a blazing star impacts Earth. These events are consistent with the laws of physics, so it is possible the first four trumpets are literal descriptions of literal events.

In other words, what else would fire, trees, and vegetation symbolize in the first trumpet if not fire, trees, and vegetation? What else sinks real ships and causes real people to die if not two great asteroid impacts? What do the sea creatures and people drinking poisonous water represent if not real sea creatures and real people? What else could the sun, moon, and stars represent if not the sun, moon, and stars that are normally visible?

If the book of Revelation forever remains a book of symbolism, we face two insurmountable problems. First, what kind of language would God have to use if He wanted mankind to regard the fire, trees, and vegetation in the first trumpet as literal fire, trees, and vegetation? What words would God have to use if He wanted us to understand that during the third trumpet desperate people will drink poisoned water out of rivers and springs and die?

If God wants the world to know that the first four trumpets are literal events, what would He have to say? We know that the four phenomena (peals of thunder, rumblings, lightning, and the earthquake) that precede the fiery hail of the first trumpet are literal, and we can see that the first four trumpets are consistent with the laws of physics, so treating the first four trumpets as symbols is not a valid argument.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[MidnightCry]

When the fourth seal is broken, a powerful campaign will begin to reveal Jesus Christ to the world. God's awesome wrath will stun Christians and non-Christians alike. The wrath of Jesus will rip up the Earth and tear down billions of false beliefs at the same time. The net effect of God's wrath is that the world will be forced for a short time to hear the testimony of Jesus.

Jesus is waiting for the appointed hour to arrive. Jesus has given the people of Earth every grace and opportunity, but the gospel of Jesus is no longer going forward. The population of Earth is multiplying faster than the gospel can be told. Moral degeneracy is rampant. Religious bias is impenetrable. Violence is everywhere. When Jesus breaks the fourth seal, and the trumpets begin, He signals the end of His patience with Earth's rejection of righteousness and truth.

The wrath of Jesus will last 1,335 days and come in two waves. The seven trumpets will be accompanied with the offer of salvation through faith in Jesus, but the seven last plagues will not contain mercy. The ears of the survivors will be unplugged so they can hear the truth about Jesus. The eyes of the survivors will be opened because the blinders of religion will be removed. Jesus has carefully and deliberately designed the course of events during the Great Tribulation so that as many people as possible can be saved.

The seven trumpets will suddenly and unexpectedly come upon most of the people living upon earth. The meteoric impacts will arrest the world's attention so that all may hear the everlasting gospel. At this time, the gospel has little momentum among earth's 7 billion people. But this is about to change. Revelation's story will come into sharp focus when the trumpets begin because people all over the world will seriously investigate the things taking place right before their eyes. Then, the gospel will go to the ends of the earth in a very short period of time.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[Lysimachus]

Futurism at it's best.

Dr. Alberto R. Treiyer, Ph.D., is the closest to the truth when it comes to the trumpets in my estimation:

Books on 7 Trumpets:
Distinctive Messages - The Seals and the Trumpets
Distinctive Messages - The Mystery of the Apocalyptic Trumpets Unraveled

Articles on 7 Trumpets:
http://www.adventistdistinctivemessages.com/English/Documents/Symposiumtrumpets3ABN.pdf
http://www.adventistdistinctivemessages.com/English/Documents/Ministry-trumpets.pdf

 

[MidnightCry]

Futurism at it's best.

Dr. Alberto R. Treiyer, Ph.D., is the closest to the truth when it comes to the trumpets in my estimation:

Books on 7 Trumpets:
Distinctive Messages - The Seals and the Trumpets
Distinctive Messages - The Mystery of the Apocalyptic Trumpets Unraveled

Articles on 7 Trumpets:
http://www.adventistdistinctivemessages.com/English/Documents/Symposiumtrumpets3ABN.pdf
http://www.adventistdistinctivemessages.com/English/Documents/Ministry-trumpets.pdf

Historicism at its best.

SDAs and evangelical groups both embrace a prophetic schematic that denies the importance of the seven trumpets. The SDA Church teaches the seven trumpets happened centuries ago, whereas other evangelical groups teach the seven trumpets will occur after a pre-tribulation rapture.

Tragically, the end result if both cases is the same: Both groups conclude the seven trumpets of Revelation are personally insignificant. This is a horrible mistake. The first four trumpets are about to sound and almost everyone is asleep to their importance. (Just as predicted by the parable of the ten virgins).

The rejection of Jesus at the first Advent and the bitter Millerite disappointment of 1844 prove that a failed prophetic schematic can be spiritually fatal. Several hundred million Christians are about to wake up and discover they have been misled by church leaders. And there is no need for this.

If the first four trumpets were symbolic, God would have clearly defined the symbols with relevant texts. There is no better way to destroy the intended meaning of the more sure word of Bible prophecy than to declare prophetic elements symbolic which God has not made symbolic.

The first four trumpets describe literal events because the outcome in each case is consistent with the laws of physics. If God does not define an item to be a symbol with a relevant text, then the item cannot be symbolic.

The first four trumpets are literal events because they are expressions of God's wrath. The first four trumpets are deliberately designed to harm Earth.
This is why the quantity of one-third is mentioned twelve times in the seven trumpets. God generously spares two-thirds.

God has carefully designed the first four trumpets to tear down and rip up this world. His patience with man's degenerate behavior is limited. God destroyed the whole world in Noah's day. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah in Abraham's day and God twice destroyed Jerusalem. The first four trumpets will demolish all of man's precious infrastructures. God intend to get the full and undivided attention of Jews, Catholics, Protestants, Hindus, Atheists, Muslims, and Pagans by releasing His wrath--although mixed with mercy.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[Lysimachus]

7 Churches (continuous)

7 Seals (continuous)

7 Trumpets (most, if not all all future)

...

What happened?

....we just went off the road!

 

[MidnightCry]

7 Churches (continuous)

7 Seals (continuous)

7 Trumpets (most, if not all all future)

...

What happened?

....we just went off the road!

The seven seals are opened in chronological order. Not all have been opened yet. The fourth sea is the next to open.

Hate to say this, but you have been on the wrong road, my friend!

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Historicism at its best.

SDAs and evangelical groups both embrace a prophetic schematic that denies the importance of the seven trumpets. The SDA Church teaches the seven trumpets happened centuries ago, whereas other evangelical groups teach the seven trumpets will occur after a pre-tribulation rapture.

Tragically, the end result if both cases is the same: Both groups conclude the seven trumpets of Revelation are personally insignificant. This is a horrible mistake. The first four trumpets are about to sound and almost everyone is asleep to their importance. (Just as predicted by the parable of the ten virgins).

The rejection of Jesus at the first Advent and the bitter Millerite disappointment of 1844 prove that a failed prophetic schematic can be spiritually fatal. Several hundred million Christians are about to wake up and discover they have been misled by church leaders. And there is no need for this.

If the first four trumpets were symbolic, God would have clearly defined the symbols with relevant texts. There is no better way to destroy the intended meaning of the more sure word of Bible prophecy than to declare prophetic elements symbolic which God has not made symbolic.

The first four trumpets describe literal events because the outcome in each case is consistent with the laws of physics. If God does not define an item to be a symbol with a relevant text, then the item cannot be symbolic.

The first four trumpets are literal events because they are expressions of God's wrath. The first four trumpets are deliberately designed to harm Earth.
This is why the quantity of one-third is mentioned twelve times in the seven trumpets. God generously spares two-thirds.

God has carefully designed the first four trumpets to tear down and rip up this world. His patience with man's degenerate behavior is limited. God destroyed the whole world in Noah's day. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah in Abraham's day and God twice destroyed Jerusalem. The first four trumpets will demolish all of man's precious infrastructures. God intend to get the full and undivided attention of Jews, Catholics, Protestants, Hindus, Atheists, Muslims, and Pagans by releasing His wrath--although mixed with mercy.

YSIC,
MidnightCry

I have to respectfully disagree with your assertian of the future tense of all the trumpets (even though you say they are imminent, it's still future)

I haven't had a chance to check out Lysimachus' links to know what his source says... I, myself, have found the Seven Thunders group lead by Jeff Pippenger to be Biblically, historically and SOP sound. They follow the historic Adventist understanding of the trumpets up to the 1840's and show that the seventh trumpet/third woe began on 9/11/01.

 

[MidnightCry]

Greetings ECR,

What purpose do the trumpets serve if they are placed in the past? Is the Bible and Revelation written for all people? Is it not a global story for all mankind?

What purpose do the trumpets serve placed in the past and only affecting a small group of people?

Daniel and Revelation were written for all people living at the end of the age. Everyone will be affected by the Great Tribulation, therefore the trumpets are global and have to relevant to the saints living at the end of time.

YSIS,
MidnightCry

 

[Lysimachus]

The seven seals are opened in chronological order. Not all have been opened yet. The fourth sea is the next to open.

Hate to say this, but you have been on the wrong road, my friend!

A far cry from truth sister! I've been studying these subjects TOO many years now to put much weight in a future interpretation of the trumpets. There are far too many flaws with the future interpretation.

If I had my way, I would spend days non-end posting pages and pages of my research in here, but I just lack the time.

 

[MidnightCry]

A far cry from truth sister! I've been studying these subjects TOO many years now to put much weight in a future interpretation of the trumpets. There are far too many flaws with the future interpretation.

If I had my way, I would spend days non-end posting pages and pages of my research in here, but I just lack the time.

Tell me some of these flaws please, so I may see the error of my ways.

 

[stinsonmarri]

Now mdnight, I do agree with you on this subject. It certainly is not the Ottoman Empire. The Father is revealing events for us to prepare for the last days. Seven Trumpet are during the Time of Trouble. Here is the clue:

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our Elohim which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped Elohim, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our Elohim for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of Elohim, and serve him day and night in His Temple: and He that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. Rev 7:9-17

Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri

 

[MidnightCry]

Now mdnight, I do agree with you on this subject. It certainly is not the Ottoman Empire. The Father is revealing events for us to prepare for the last days. Seven Trumpet are during the Time of Trouble. Here is the clue:

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our Elohim which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped Elohim, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our Elohim for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of Elohim, and serve him day and night in His Temple: and He that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. Rev 7:9-17

Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri

Happy Sabbath to you too, stinsonmarri! I am glad we can agree on something after all!

YSIC,
MidnightCry

 

[stinsonmarri]

A far cry from truth sister! I've been studying these subjects TOO many years now to put much weight in a future interpretation of the trumpets. There are far too many flaws with the future interpretation.

If I had my way, I would spend days non-end posting pages and pages of my research in here, but I just lack the time.

Well here is the one who follow the Commandments and call Them by Their right names.

I do agree with you but not what the SDA teaches based on Uriah Smith book. The Seven seals are the people of Elohim being sealed from Adam (the first rider on the white horse which was the earth in it perfect form), The only two place by our High Priest in the Book of Life and sealed is Adam and Eve. Next horses are showing the condition or transformation of the earth from sin until today it is dying. Notice the fifth seals no horse and the people are waiting under the altar. These people are asleep and John is using a metaphor like in Gen 4:10. YAHWEH tells them to rest because others during the sixth seal will died for Yashua as well. People sealed during each horse and the fifth on comes under the fourth dying horse until the 144,000 and the great multitude are sealed one group before the other group during TT, get it!

The wrath of the Lamb and of His Father is not His coming but the destruction or calamities on the wicked and the three woes (all this take place for 3 1/years) then under the Seven Trumpet after the Time of Trouble has closed are two months and fifteen days. The seven last plagues are during this period from the six to the seventh trumpets. When the seventh trumpet is blown the mystery of salvation is complete. Babylon is destroyed by the beast and now he is after YAHWEH'S scatter people. Help is on the way Yashua returns and stops the beast. Dan 12:3-12; Rev 11:15; 16:17

That's the chronological order.

Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri

 

[stinsonmarri]

Happy Sabbath to you too, stinsonmarri! I am glad we can agree on something after all!

YSIC,
MidnightCry

Midnight:

If it is Bible base, I agree if not, I don't. Revelation tell historical events that spands over certain period of time, the sealing and His Throne in His Temple. His Son the Lamb takes the Book of Life and begins to start sealing all those who will be saved. Those who are not will be blotted out and that means many who have known the truth. When their name comes up befor the Tribunial Court of Heaven (always on the Day of Judgment or Atonement), they will be blotted out. That is why SDA cannot call themselves the remnant church, it is not in there. Daniel and Revelation must be studied with a fine tooth comb. You must understand the clues also. When digs are taken place the historians, linquistists, epigrahphers along with the archaeologists look for certain clues. We are on a historical and prophetic dig and the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truths.

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

 

[MidnightCry]

Midnight:

If it is Bible base, I agree if not, I don't. Revelation tell historical events that spands over certain period of time, the sealing and His Throne in His Temple. His Son the Lamb takes the Book of Life and begins to start sealing all those who will be saved. Those who are not will be blotted out and that means many who have known the truth. When their name comes up befor the Tribunial Court of Heaven (always on the Day of Judgment or Atonement), they will be blotted out. That is why SDA cannot call themselves the remnant church, it is not in there. Daniel and Revelation must be studied with a fine tooth comb. You must understand the clues also. When digs are taken place the historians, linquistists, epigrahphers along with the archaeologists look for certain clues. We are on a historical and prophetic dig and the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truths.

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

Can you answer a question please to clarify your above answer?
You state "His son the Lamb takes the Book of Life and begins to start sealing all those who will be saved."

Where is this found in the Bible? When does Jesus receive the Book of Life? When does Jesus start sealing all those who will be saved?

Thank you,
YSIC
MidnightCry

 

[stinsonmarri]

Can you answer a question please to clarify your above answer?
You state "His son the Lamb takes the Book of Life and begins to start sealing all those who will be saved."

Where is this found in the Bible? When does Jesus receive the Book of Life? When does Jesus start sealing all those who will be saved?

Thank you,
YSIC
MidnightCry

MidnightCry:

I am sorry that I am just getting back to you. Sure here's the Scriptures:

And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of Elohim sent forth into all the earth. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to Elohim by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our Elohim kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Rev 5:1-10

Also in Daniel:

I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Dan 7:9-14

Revelation Chapter Five presents the Son as the Lamb who takes the Book from out of the Fathers hands. This scene started in 1844 that Hiram Edson viewed on the exact day of Atonement. That is why the Feast Days are important because of the significance for Salvation as well. Here the angels that holds the throne of YAHWEH begins to tell John come and see each time Yashua opens a seal in Chapter Six. Each seal is from the Book of Life. Even EGW present the evidence about the Fifth Chapter of Revelation.

The fifth chapter of Revelation needs to be closely studied. It is of great importance to those who shall act a part in the work of Elohim for these last days” T Vol. 9 p. 267

But Daniel presents in a few statement what is seen from Rev Chapter Four through Twenty. He sees the Ancient of Days preparing for the Investigating Judgment and books are open. It is the Most Holy place where the courtroom of Heaven is open. Men deeds both good and bad are kept and each ones guardian angels has their record. Now its plain that the beast which I repeat again is the same beast of Revelation is shown slain and place in the lake of fire or burning flames. However the reast of the beasts domion, kingdom or power had being taken away. But now the Bible shows clearly these are people and their power with the beast/man is gone. The birds have ate their flesh, but they will arise again this time with Satan himself as their leader. But it is Yashua kingdom that will some reign on this earth. I end with why EGW was a messenger and not a prophet because she was not reveal the future events. She was shone what was already presented in the Bible for the Wise Virgins who receive the Latter Rain will understand by stuyding and the will see and know clearly the last days events:

Daniel and Revelation must be studied, as well as the other prophecies of the Old and New Testaments. Let there be light, yes, light, in your dwellings. For this we need to pray. The Holy Spirit, shining upon the sacred page, will open our understanding, that we may know what is truth. . . .​

There is need of a much closer study of the word of Elohim; especially should Daniel and the Revelation have attention as never before in the history of our work. We may have less to say in some lines, in regard to the Roman power and the papacy; but we should call attention to what the prophets and apostles have written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit of Elohim. The Holy Spirit has so shaped matters, both in the giving of the prophecy and in the events portrayed, as to teach that the human agent is to be kept out of sight, hid in Yashua, and that the YAHWEH Elohim of heaven and His law are to be exalted. Read the book of Daniel. Call up, point by point, the history of the kingdoms there represented. Behold statesmen, councils, powerful armies, and see how Elohim wrought to abase the pride of men, and lay human glory in the dust. . . .

The light that Daniel received from Elohim was given especially for these last days. The visions he saw by the banks of the Ulai and the Hiddekel, the great rivers of Shinar, are now in process of fulfillment, and all the events foretold will soon come to pass. TM 112, 113​

Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri

 

[MidnightCry]

MidnightCry:

I am sorry that I am just getting back to you. Sure here's the Scriptures:

And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of Elohim sent forth into all the earth. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to Elohim by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our Elohim kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Rev 5:1-10

Also in Daniel:

I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Dan 7:9-14

Revelation Chapter Five presents the Son as the Lamb who takes the Book from out of the Fathers hands. This scene started in 1844 that Hiram Edson viewed on the exact day of Atonement. That is why the Feast Days are important because of the significance for Salvation as well. Here the angels that holds the throne of YAHWEH begins to tell John come and see each time Yashua opens a seal in Chapter Six. Each seal is from the Book of Life. Even EGW present the evidence about the Fifth Chapter of Revelation.

The fifth chapter of Revelation needs to be closely studied. It is of great importance to those who shall act a part in the work of Elohim for these last days” T Vol. 9 p. 267

But Daniel presents in a few statement what is seen from Rev Chapter Four through Twenty. He sees the Ancient of Days preparing for the Investigating Judgment and books are open. It is the Most Holy place where the courtroom of Heaven is open. Men deeds both good and bad are kept and each ones guardian angels has their record. Now its plain that the beast which I repeat again is the same beast of Revelation is shown slain and place in the lake of fire or burning flames. However the reast of the beasts domion, kingdom or power had being taken away. But now the Bible shows clearly these are people and their power with the beast/man is gone. The birds have ate their flesh, but they will arise again this time with Satan himself as their leader. But it is Yashua kingdom that will some reign on this earth. I end with why EGW was a messenger and not a prophet because she was not reveal the future events. She was shone what was already presented in the Bible for the Wise Virgins who receive the Latter Rain will understand by stuyding and the will see and know clearly the last days events:

Daniel and Revelation must be studied, as well as the other prophecies of the Old and New Testaments. Let there be light, yes, light, in your dwellings. For this we need to pray. The Holy Spirit, shining upon the sacred page, will open our understanding, that we may know what is truth. . . .​

There is need of a much closer study of the word of Elohim; especially should Daniel and the Revelation have attention as never before in the history of our work. We may have less to say in some lines, in regard to the Roman power and the papacy; but we should call attention to what the prophets and apostles have written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit of Elohim. The Holy Spirit has so shaped matters, both in the giving of the prophecy and in the events portrayed, as to teach that the human agent is to be kept out of sight, hid in Yashua, and that the YAHWEH Elohim of heaven and His law are to be exalted. Read the book of Daniel. Call up, point by point, the history of the kingdoms there represented. Behold statesmen, councils, powerful armies, and see how Elohim wrought to abase the pride of men, and lay human glory in the dust. . . .

The light that Daniel received from Elohim was given especially for these last days. The visions he saw by the banks of the Ulai and the Hiddekel, the great rivers of Shinar, are now in process of fulfillment, and all the events foretold will soon come to pass. TM 112, 113​

Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri

Greetings stinsonmarri,

I am familiar with these verses. My main question is when did Jesus receive the book of life? Are you saying He was given the Book of Life in 1844? How does scripture support this date?

Thank you,
MidnightCry

 

[stinsonmarri]

Greetings stinsonmarri,

I am familiar with these verses. My main question is when did Jesus receive the book of life? Are you saying He was given the Book of Life in 1844? How does scripture support this date?

Thank you,
MidnightCry

That is why it is so important to understand Daniel Chapter Seven thru Twelve. Chapter Eight first introduce what is not in the Seventh Chapter Rome! Rome comes out of Greece and it also shows that it would be Rome during its pagan period that it will trample down the Sanctuary Truth. If you understood the cleansing of the earthly Sanctuary you would understood the 23 hundred day prophecy that begings in this Chapter. Realize that a thousand years to us is like a day to the Trio of Heaven. You must understand that all that was given to Moses which was very detail had to do with the ministration of Heaven. Midnight Enoch, Moses, Elijah and others were taken to Heaven before Salvation could be completed. If you understand our basic court system is like YAHWEH'S in Heaven. There is a Judge, a Lawyer for the denfense, a Prosecutor, a Clerk, a Baliff, a Jury, People who witness the trial.
The first part of the Trial is call the Investigated session. Before the trial begins books or records are kept, investigation by the prosecutors is done, charges are presented in a prelimiary hearing.

So let's go back in time-Satan stated that YAHWEH'S laws were unjust that is why he was not destroyed. Other beings made like us did not sin and believe me Satan tried. I keep telling everyone that Satan fail only before we were created. YAHWEH of Heaven was on trial first and His law had to be vindicated. We only think this whole thing is about us and it was not. We fail our test and only a Supreme Being could ramsom us back based on the law. Satan reads the Bible and trembles. He knew that Yashua would have to become lower than the angels and he felt if and when He did he Satan would try to destroy Him. Yashua prevail in proving that His Father's laws were just and fair, that Satan was a liar and a murder, and He could return to the only perfect courtroom to redeem only those who want to be saved. The first part of His Ministry was to teach man how to be righteous and to show man that there was hope. Yashua could not see hope like we can. I know that seems crazy but it is true. He depended on His Father like we can depend on Him. When He became separated from His Father the Human Being almost died in the Garden. The Father had to send angels to keep the Human Being alive so that the Second Adam could die on the cross. This is when He became our Passover in the Garden not on the cross. He was the burnt offering on the cross.

Now He anoints the Holy Spirit who have to do His part to work with man. It is the Holy Spirit that cleans us up when we listen to Him. He takes our prayes and fixes them up to Heaven so that the Son presents them to the Father as a sweet ordor of incense. There is no blood in Heaven not at all. The sins we have are not wipe away immediately, they are place in a book by our guardian angel. This is the books of deeds and rememberance. When Yashua went back to Heaven this administration had to be done beginning with Adam.

The book of Daniel shows through time the Redemption and Salvation of man and the vindication of the Father and His justice. Daniel 7:8-10 shows the end of the first apartment in Heaven or the Holy place. It begins quickly showing you the overtude of the Investigated Judgment. Daniel 8:14-27 Begins about the desolation and you must understand what this mean also trangression, the daily (and it does not have to do with lambs or sacrifices that is in italic and put in), trangressors. It all has to do with Jerusalem in Chronicles and Nimrod in Genesis. Chapter Nine the angels explains in detail about the 23 hundred days that deals with the Jews as a nation/church removed as the chosen who were called. It shows that death of the Son and again the confirmation of the law or covenant, continual abomination, the end of the sacrifical services on earth, that man who makes something desolate, and the consummation. But most of all it shows and explains the beginning date of the Yashua as our Lawyer. He stands before His Father and takes a book in 1844 to begin a Court Session. The prosecutor is there and it is not Satan because he too will be prosecuted in the end. Revelation Chapter four thru seven shows in great detail the Investigated Judgment. Adam and all those who have died and lived righteous or claim righteous are judged first, than the living which is the sixth seal. The first thru five only deals with those who are sealed and saved and placed in the book by the angel with the writer's ink horn-the clerk! Baliff is the Holy Spirit, 24 elders jury of our peers, the others are witnessing the trial in Heaven. The day of Atonement every year people are blotted out of the Book of Life or sealed. Only those who claim to know Elohim are being dealt with at this time. Just like this length of time we the saints will judge the wicked and it will take a thousand years to us not to Elohim!

Blessings,
stinsonmarri