More Important, Benevolence or Belief?

[PsychoSarah]

Do good people go to hell if they don't believe? Do believers go to hell if they are not good? Will those who live good lives be rewarded regardless as to what they believe? Will bad people go to heaven so long as they believe?

Just curious as to what people think is more important.

 

[Jeremy E Walker]

Do good people go to hell if they don't believe? Do believers go to hell if they are not good? Will those who live good lives be rewarded regardless as to what they believe? Will bad people go to heaven so long as they believe?

Just curious as to what people think is more important.

Good day PsychoSarah.

I saw this poll title and my interest was piqued to say the least!

I however have refrained from voting in the poll because I do not quite understand what it is you are asking. The fault is mine I am afraid.

But to get clarification, and if you are willing, could you kind of elaborate on what you mean when you use the phrase "good people"?

Also, when you use the word "believer", who is it that you are referring to? For there are some who are Muslim who believe that Muhammad was the last and greatest prophet and there are some who believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. There are also "believers" who fall into neither category.

Since this is a Christian forum I think you may be referring to Christians when you use the term "believer", but I do not want to assume this.

Also, when you use the phrase "bad people", what do you mean?

I am sorry for laying such a burden upon you but I am sure it is all very clear in your mind it is just that I do not want to assume anything.

Respectfully yours.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Good person definition- generally selfless person who, while they may lie on occasion or commit some other such minor offenses, contributes more positive and benevolent things to the world than the sum of all those minor offenses, never committing any serious or lasting crime.

Believer definition- this is for the voter to decide, a person who believes in the existence of your god/is of your religion. The only rule here is that this does not exclude bad people, because the rule is that a believer is someone who holds the belief; they do not necessarily practice what they preach. While some may argue this point, that is the definition that should be considered for the pole, that a believer is not automatically a good or bad person.

Bad person definition- a person who either is mostly selfish and unsympathetic, who mostly contributes general suffering and malice to the world, or a person who commits a severe crime that causes permanent damage to the lives of others intentionally (murder, rape, child endangerment, are some I would consider crimes that if committed even just once make one a bad person. However, killing in self defense, or accidentally harming someone are not of this nature). A bad person can also be both generally malicious and commit horrific crimes of course.

 

[Sayre]

I don't believe in a hell.

And... atheists can be good people and do good things. Theists can be bad people and do bad things. I think good and bad are a bit of a false dichotomy because I've done both good and bad in my life, as both an atheist and a theist. Surely this is more of a sliding scale? Where is the boundary between good and bad?

 

[PsychoSarah]

I don't believe in a hell.

And... atheists can be good people and do good things. Theists can be bad people and do bad things. I think good and bad are a bit of a false dichotomy because I've done both good and bad in my life, as both an atheist and a theist. Surely this is more of a sliding scale? Where is the boundary between good and bad?

Fine, too subjective of a topic I suppose. I wanted to see whether being a decent person or being a believer was more important to them, but people just end up wanting me to define that for them when they are supposed to make the judgment for themselves and defend it.

 

[Sayre]

Fine, too subjective of a topic I suppose. I wanted to see whether being a decent person or being a believer was more important to them, but people just end up wanting me to define that for them when they are supposed to make the judgment for themselves and defend it.

It is just an ill formed question. A false dichotomy - both are important, and both are measured on a sliding scale rather than a binary indicator.

 

[PsychoSarah]

It is just an ill formed question. A false dichotomy - both are important, and both are measured on a sliding scale rather than a binary indicator.

I gave the third option of them being equal in their importance, perhaps I should have put other as an option.

 

[football5680]

Do good people go to hell if they don't believe?

If they never had the opportunity to hear the gospel and they were really good then it is possible. They couldn't worship other Gods or deny the existence of God as well. Saint Paul speaks about some Gentiles (Non-Jews) who lived their lives as if they were under the law but they didn't know the law and he said this showed it was written on their heart. He doesn't say they will be saved but he says that God will judge the secrets of man so this at least leaves the possibility open.

Do believers go to hell if they are not good?

If they commit mortal sins like Murder or adultery and never confess them then they would go to hell. The Bible says there are some sins that lead to death and others that don't.

Will those who live good lives be rewarded regardless as to what they believe?

No. The non-believers would have to meet the stipulations I already talked about to have a chance. The believer who lives a good life will receive his reward.

Will bad people go to heaven so long as they believe?

No. If they lived their lives in a way that goes against how Jesus commanded Christians to live then they were superficial believers and simply claimed to be Christians. Jesus recognizes his followers through their actions, not just people who claim they believe. Jesus said people will come to him on judgment day and say 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then he would say to them away from me evildoers.

Just curious as to what people think is more important.

Believing is far more important because even if you lived a pretty good life as a non-believer it does not mean you will be saved. Also if you are a believer you will know what God expects.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Not to worry. Those unbelievers, whether good or bad, will have their opportunity for salvation during the millennial rule of Christ. Those saved during this dispensation are just the first of God's harvest of souls.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Sarah, this will not be a popular answer. It depends on the goal.

If one wants to be forgiven and in a proper relationship with God, then belief in and acceptance of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ is ALL that matters.

If one wants a Nobel Peace Prize, benevolence is the way to go.

Naturally it is more complicated than that. If one accepts God's will and mandate, one will as a consequence of being forgiven desire benevolence as a daily way of life; some perhaps in more obvious ways than others. Mother Teresa comes to mind. As does my expectation of never being noticed by the Nobel committee.

 

[Jeremy E Walker]

Sarah, this will not be a popular answer. It depends on the goal.

If one wants to be forgiven and in a proper relationship with God, then belief in and acceptance of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ is ALL that matters.

If one wants a Nobel Peace Prize, benevolence is the way to go.

Naturally it is more complicated than that. If one accepts God's will and mandate, one will as a consequence of being forgiven desire benevolence as a daily way of life; some perhaps in more obvious ways than others. Mother Teresa comes to mind. As does my expectation of never being noticed by the Nobel committee.

Bravo!!!

 

[smaneck]

Not being a Christian I was originally inclined to ignore this thread but after my interactions with Skip on the Freemason thread a few things have come to mind:

1. Belief is not faith. Belief is a cognitive function. Faith is a relationship.

2. Religion ought to be about more than fire insurance.

3. It always amazes me that Christians who claim to take the Bible so literally will believe exactly as they think Paul says to believe but will not do what Jesus says to do. I'm thinking especially of Matthew 5.

 

[football5680]

Not being a Christian I was originally inclined to ignore this thread but after my interactions with Skip on the Freemason thread a few things have come to mind:

1. Belief is not faith. Belief is a cognitive function. Faith is a relationship.

2. Religion ought to be about more than fire insurance.

3. It always amazes me that Christians who claim to take the Bible so literally will believe exactly as they think Paul says to believe but will not do what Jesus says to do. I'm thinking especially of Matthew 5.

True. Some Christians cling to a few verses they think support their beliefs and they must disregard basically everything else that Jesus or the apostles said.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Not being a Christian I was originally inclined to ignore this thread but after my interactions with Skip on the Freemason thread a few things have come to mind:

1. Belief is not faith. Belief is a cognitive function. Faith is a relationship.

2. Religion ought to be about more than fire insurance.

3. It always amazes me that Christians who claim to take the Bible so literally will believe exactly as they think Paul says to believe but will not do what Jesus says to do. I'm thinking especially of Matthew 5.

Matthew 5, generally speaking, doesn't apply to Christians today. It was a special message for the disciples, for that special time. Go through it verse by verse and you'll see this.

 

[bhsmte]

Sarah, this will not be a popular answer. It depends on the goal.

If one wants to be forgiven and in a proper relationship with God, then belief in and acceptance of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ is ALL that matters.

If one wants a Nobel Peace Prize, benevolence is the way to go.

Naturally it is more complicated than that. If one accepts God's will and mandate, one will as a consequence of being forgiven desire benevolence as a daily way of life; some perhaps in more obvious ways than others. Mother Teresa comes to mind. As does my expectation of never being noticed by the Nobel committee.

Would be interested in your opinion on the fate of the two situations below.

1. a person who has lived a life of causing suffering to others, lets say a murderer who has decided to find Jesus, accept God's will and mandate while in prison. Will this person be accepted into heaven?

2. a person who lives a life of caring for others, is unselfish in their ways and is well respected, but does not believe in God. Does this person go to hell?

 

[Albion]

This is an interesting question...belief or benevolence. But then the OP starts into talk about who goes to hell, etc. and that changes the question IMO.

If I ask myself whether belief or benevolence is more important...without adding in a lot of qualifying comments about what you or someone else is going to get in eternity if you go one way or the other...

then I have to say "belief."

The whole point of the Gospel is salvation. And that comes--we are told--through faith, which is related to belief. THEN if we have that faith, we will live our lives in the way that he in whom we believe taught us to live. That's where the benevolence part enters in. So it's belief that is primary.

 

[smaneck]

Matthew 5, generally speaking, doesn't apply to Christians today. It was a special message for the disciples, for that special time. Go through it verse by verse and you'll see this.

I've gone through it verse by verse and failed to find the one that indicates this.

 

[durangodawood]

To ME....

Its much more important how you treat me than what statements you are ready to make about reality.

 

[Noxot]

you go to hell when you are hell and you go to heaven when you are heaven. beliefs and the doing of good and evil are not something that can be separated so I guess they are both equally important.

but heaven and hell are not about rewards, they are about functioning and existing in reality. if you want a reward.. you are probably still in hell to some degree. what kind of reward does love need? anyone wanting a reward is in a deep need of salvation, they have not seen the face of God.

"good" means different things to different people.

 

[PsychoSarah]

you go to hell when you are hell and you go to heaven when you are heaven. beliefs and the doing of good and evil are not something that can be separated so I guess they are both equally important.

but heaven and hell are not about rewards, they are about functioning and existing in reality. if you want a reward.. you are probably still in hell to some degree. what kind of reward does love need? anyone wanting a reward is in a deep need of salvation, they have not seen the face of God.

"good" means different things to different people.

By that designation, religion puts people into a sort of spiritual hell, forcing themselves to be good for a perceived reward rather than what comes naturally to them. Interesting.