• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

more ice in Antarctica

Direct Driver

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2021
1,141
445
61
Kentucky
✟12,946.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Does this mean that those who have accused me of suffering from this effect also suffer from it, as they don't know what they don't know about me?
What's the agenda?
Well, technically, trying to expose lies is an "agenda". Accusing someone of having an agenda is a form of Ad-hominem. After all, an early 1930's Jew writing about the danger's of Nazism may have had an "agenda", but those Jews in Germany used what they learned from him to make the wise decision to get the heck out of Germany. A German non-Jew on the internet, if it had been available then, may have accused him of being "just a Jew with an agenda".

So I have no problem with people having an agenda. We all do. The question is, really, what IS the agenda?
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,977
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,242.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others

An agenda is just a list of things you want to do, although it has come to mean nefarious plans by politicians (many of which are actually nefarious).
 
Reactions: Direct Driver
Upvote 0

rambot

Senior Member
Apr 13, 2006
28,267
15,952
Up your nose....wid a rubbah hose.
✟448,304.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
Well, you have me on that one. Since the issue is so politicised and important, everyone has an agenda on this one. And the harder they try to make it look like they don't the more suspicious I am.
That's why you should ALWAYS be reading scientific studies and research and not blogs OR news articles (at least not ONLY those things).

Your quote on saying you've got "thousands of articles" may be something. I've heard people post the same htings. But the fact is that if you are quoting blogs and news articles, I don't necessarily take that as evidence.

So, two things. I am not new to this; and I have followed my MO regarding researching controversial issues: Read both (all) sides to form my own opinion.
You may not feel new but you haven't demonstrated a strong knowledge yet.

Oh, and a third thing. I talked this thing out a long time ago.
That's the OPPOSITE of a good thing. You seem to suggest that that you did a lot of research back in 2003-5.
That is ALMOST 20 years ago.

How do you come to the conclusion that the science would NOT have changed?
OK, Two words: Atmospheric pressure.
This is the closest thing to an alternate theory to CO2 global warming that I find interesting and a scientific explanation.
However, it doesn't actually change the need for action; like....at ALL. Because humans are also releasing gases into the atmosphere (hence the CO2). And that would ALSO be increasing the pressure in our atmosphere.
So we're back at square 1.

What you've said is factual, but misses the point. Sure, CO2 "absorbs and re-emits infrared radiation" That's a fact. Where people go off the rails is when they then quote that fact to support all sorts of AGW nonsense.
Yeah sorry. I don't mean to be difficult but you need to give some GOOD examples of this because CO2 (and ALL those other greenhouse gases) trapping ENERGY is the basis for ALL the problems.

Do you have some examples of that nonsense?

They prefer climate change because it is a BETTER description of what is happenning.

FYI, the cold snap through the central US and Texas is due PRECISELY to climate change. Let me know if I can help explain that one out. I would assume with your research you would already know how all those things are interconnected but I'd happily inform you if needed.

The data simply doesn't support it.
If the data is applied appropriately, it does.
HOWEVER, there are times when folks say because Lubbock Texas has been cooling for 20 years global warming is questionable.
I've presented two sites. Here's another:
Watts Up With That?
I'm familiar with James Watts.

Sorry, I should have said I have a standing policy of not giving a single hooha to a youtube video. It started when I used to watch those videos and they provide a bunch of lacklustre misinformation in a VERY convincing manner.
Simply put, I don't have the time to deal with 37 of 40 poor claims to find the few quasi-legitimate arguments those videos may have and comment on those.
 
Upvote 0

rambot

Senior Member
Apr 13, 2006
28,267
15,952
Up your nose....wid a rubbah hose.
✟448,304.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
Here is why so many people think they have a solid understanding of AGW or climate change thanks to CNN or reading a few articles or seeing a few graphs - but they don't have a clue:
I know you think you're talking about me, but you're not. And I know you're not talking about me because you didn't describe me.
I read scientific literature from Scientists who do the research and the work.
 
Upvote 0

Direct Driver

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2021
1,141
445
61
Kentucky
✟12,946.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I know you think you're talking about me, but you're not. And I know you're not talking about me because you didn't describe me.
I read scientific literature from Scientists who do the research and the work.
Don't flatter yourself. I was not talking about you.

I was talking about the general human condition. We all suffer from what the video talked about to one degree or another. And sometimes even in areas where we have expertise, but not in the particular sub-area.

The point is that one of the reasons I tire of these arguments is that, first, they don't change minds (I learned that in that almost seven thousand post thread) and that we are all only victims of our own information sources and how we filter that information through our own biases. So it's a bit of the equivalent of playing a video game. It's fun, but really accomplishes nothing.

I think, in all honesty, the whole thing is summed up best by Jordan Peterson, who is NOT a climate scientist, in this response to a question. Quite brilliant, actually:

 
Upvote 0

Direct Driver

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2021
1,141
445
61
Kentucky
✟12,946.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
My concern is how quick people are to say there is no climate emergency when poor countries are currently being affected by it.
Like, right now.

But it's easy for us in the west to turn our eyes away from it.
Go to the video above at the 51 second mark. That is my response to this post.
 
Upvote 0

rambot

Senior Member
Apr 13, 2006
28,267
15,952
Up your nose....wid a rubbah hose.
✟448,304.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
Go to the video above at the 51 second mark. That is my response to this post.
Thanks. If you give me time stamps, I'm more inclined to check it out and I will later I think.

I was talking about the general human condition. We all suffer from what the video talked about to one degree or another. And sometimes even in areas where we have expertise, but not in the particular sub-area.

Climatologists have a confidence based in their expertise so they wouldn't necessarily be in the Dunning Kruger Effect because they are in "Guru" territory.
 
Reactions: Direct Driver
Upvote 0

Direct Driver

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2021
1,141
445
61
Kentucky
✟12,946.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Though I enjoyed the graph very much, I think the problem is that even our "guru's" are still in the "know nothing" or just to the right of it. However, I don't think they are necessarily the ones that have such high confidence since they probably have a better understanding of just how little we really know. I think it is the people in the general public that believe them or some of their students that are at the peak of "Mount Stupid".
 
Upvote 0

rambot

Senior Member
Apr 13, 2006
28,267
15,952
Up your nose....wid a rubbah hose.
✟448,304.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
Though I enjoyed the graph very much, I think the problem is that even our "guru's" are still in the "know nothing" or just to the right of it.
I think what is missing is hubris. I think ALMOST all scientists do not have the hubris necessarily to be affected by DKE. Generally, scientists (at least the scientists I stake the most credibility in) are able to articulate where holes exist in our knowledge.
Katherine Hayhoe is a BRILLIANT Christian climatologist and someone who puts forward an intelligent case for ACC.
I would CERTAINLY be inclined to believe that.
 
Upvote 0

Direct Driver

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2021
1,141
445
61
Kentucky
✟12,946.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
We have come to a meeting of the minds with that post.
 
Upvote 0

Occams Barber

Newbie
Site Supporter
Aug 8, 2012
6,493
7,692
77
Northern NSW
✟1,099,328.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Divorced
Yeah but by what margin? 0.10% of a degree?

The vertical axis is measured off in 0.5 degree steps starting at -2 degrees below average and going up to 2 degrees above average. 'Average' (0 degrees) is the 30 year average temperature from 1961 to 1990.

If you look at the column for 2020, on the right, the temperature was almost 1 degree above average.

The 2019 column shows the temperature was almost 2 degrees above average. (The actual figures are 2020 = 0.95 deg above av, 2019 = 1.89 deg. above av)

(I've put a link below to the DIY graphs for any Australian viewer who wants to look at their state).
Climate change and variability: Tracker: Australian timeseries graphs (bom.gov.au)


Climate change and variability: Tracker: Australian timeseries graphs (bom.gov.au)

OB
 
Last edited:
Reactions: rambot
Upvote 0

Aussie Pete

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 14, 2019
9,082
8,298
Frankston
Visit site
✟773,725.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
Trees store more carbon than grass. I don't disagree with more pasture and such. Some people in Australia are reducing the intensity of land use to great effect. But it's a drop in the ocean compared with the size of the problem.
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,977
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,242.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Trees store more carbon than grass. I don't disagree with more pasture and such. Some people in Australia are reducing the intensity of land use to great effect. But it's a drop in the ocean compared with the size of the problem.

While grasslands are less productive than tilled acreages they preserve and build soil organic carbon, especially well managed pasture lands that are manured by grazing animals. Grasslands have the additional benefit of cooling the earth and 'attracting' rainfall.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

rambot

Senior Member
Apr 13, 2006
28,267
15,952
Up your nose....wid a rubbah hose.
✟448,304.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
This one never gets old, and it's even more appropriate today:
Why listen to Michael Crichton? And then why should I not listen to Leo DiCaprio if you suggest I listen to Crichton?
 
Upvote 0

Direct Driver

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2021
1,141
445
61
Kentucky
✟12,946.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Why listen to Michael Crichton? And then why should I not listen to Leo DiCaprio if you suggest I listen to Crichton?
Fine. Listen to both. It's what I do. I listen to both sides and then consider the veracity of the evidence presented. But honestly, have you actually listened to both? They are clearly not both of the same quality. But even better is this guy, who is a recognized authority on the subject, and takes a very pragmatic view:
 
Upvote 0

rambot

Senior Member
Apr 13, 2006
28,267
15,952
Up your nose....wid a rubbah hose.
✟448,304.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
He is a recognized journalist DD. That is not a scientist.
 
Upvote 0

Direct Driver

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2021
1,141
445
61
Kentucky
✟12,946.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
He is a recognized journalist DD. That is not a scientist.
Kinda like Al Gore or Bill Nye (who I loved on Almost Live, BTW). How about Tony Heller? Do you believe him? How about any of these guys: The 10 Most-Respected Global Warming Skeptics
Or the five on this list: The Top 15 Climate-Change Scientists: Consensus & Skeptics

And here is Bjorn: Bjørn Lomborg - Wikipedia

I think you need to ask yourself, "What, exactly, is a scientist?" I think this definition from the Science council might sum it up best:

Was I being a scientist when I experimented with changing the course of a creek on my property based on the plants and land gradient? Was I being a scientist when I experimented with different types of seed and food to attract specific birds to my property? Would my opinion on either of those things make me a person who's opinion may carry a little weight on those subjects compared to someone that has never considered them?

FWIW, my personal favorite is Tony Heller. He's been threatened with being cancelled by Youtube so he now also has a newtube account, just in case. Think of it as a 1984 kind of thing.[/quote]

Edit: A takeaway from the list of global warming skeptics above is something I've embraced for quite a while: I'm in good company. Mine is not a "fringe nutjob" perspective. Quite the opposite. And anyone who has exposed themself to the material from these folks would agree. One can disagree with them, as one may disagree with their respected college professor. One does so with caution.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

prosperity4all

Active Member
Jul 30, 2019
279
107
new york
✟25,856.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0