More horrific

Status
Not open for further replies.

expos4ever

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2008
10,661
5,770
Montreal, Quebec
✟251,078.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
You are unable to confess that Jesus Christ is your Lord so yo deny His divinity. You, from your posts, also hate Jews, God's chosen people. You sidestep ddirect questions bu deflection so you have no authority to say what others care about.
Scripturally, the Jews are no longer God's special people. I am not denying they were such, but they have fulfilled their role. Now, as Paul says, there is "neither Jew not Greek for all are one in Christ Jesus". No doubt many will disagree and claim the Jews still retain special status. Well, we can debate that as long we appeal to the Scriptures.
 
  • Useful
Reactions: John Helpher
Upvote 0

Aaron112

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2022
2,549
538
TULSA
✟53,912.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
In Relationship
Tens of thousands will likely die in the next week.
Will you help even one life this week at all ?

If you cannot, how can you claim anything about so many lives overseas that you cannot help in any way ?
 
Upvote 0

John Helpher

John 3:16
Site Supporter
Mar 25, 2020
1,345
479
45
Houston
✟85,316.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
then should we listen to you about any countries ?
I've not asked you to listen to me. I've only said what Jesus said; love your enemies. Oh, I also pointed out that it's fraudulent to claim to be a follower of Jesus but then deliberately disregard his teachings.

If you claim that Jesus' teachings CAN fix a problem,
Yeah, I do make that claim.
 
Upvote 0

BPPLEE

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
9,925
3,516
60
Montgomery
✟142,506.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
People are killing people, and Jesus said not to do that. They can ignore him if they want. God gives all of us that option. But, we Christians should not ignore Jesus. We shouldn't be telling Israel to go ahead and do something Jesus told us not to do; we should be telling them to follow Jesus.

If you guys were saying that Palestine has the right to bomb Israel for things Israel has done to them, I'd be making the same argument; Jesus said to love our enemies. The population, or ethnicity, or geographic location, or genetic makeup, or skin color, or whatever has nothing to do with this teaching; it is a teaching for all of humanity.
If someone says they are coming to your house to kill you would you open the door and let them in?
 
Upvote 0

Lukaris

Orthodox Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2007
7,886
2,551
Pennsylvania, USA
✟755,391.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
The Hamas attack was genocidal in nature. If a military target was hit and prisoners not massacred, I am sure the Israeli response would be more limited and tactical.

I know of 2 cases in which my Christian ancestors had different reactions. One was in Syria in the 1860s and the other in 17th century New England. My Orthodox Christian ancestors decided to emigrate. My Protestant ancestors had no option so they fought back against the Indians who probably had just as much cause to fight for their own survival.

Syria 1860:


The New England colonies in the 17th century:



People in both groups had to confess any sin to be saved ( 1 John 1:5-10, Ephesians 2:8-10).
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Hazelelponi
Upvote 0

John Helpher

John 3:16
Site Supporter
Mar 25, 2020
1,345
479
45
Houston
✟85,316.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Scripturally, the Jews are no longer God's special people.
Yeah, but my point is even simpler than that; regardless of who you are, if you claim to follow Jesus, it is anti-Jesus to cheer on the killing of enemies.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Aaron112

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2022
2,549
538
TULSA
✟53,912.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
In Relationship
I've not asked you to listen to me.
You have made many claims, not one of them with any evidence that you have .... and so
you
are correct here - we should not listen to you , nor your claims about Jesus or what Jesus says.
Simple direct questions, instead of answering truthfully, you avoid.
 
Upvote 0

GreatLakes4Ever

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2019
3,444
4,879
38
Midwest
✟265,090.00
Country
United States
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Engaged
If someone says they are coming to your house to kill you would you open the door and let them in?

There’s a long distance between inviting them in and lighting their house on fire and hoping the just person trying to kill you is in there and no one else. The fact that those blindly supporting Israel against these monsters can’t see that is frightening. If your only way to fight monster is to become monsters yourself, than you are no better than them.
 
  • Useful
Reactions: John Helpher
Upvote 0

BPPLEE

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
9,925
3,516
60
Montgomery
✟142,506.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There’s a long distance between inviting them in and lighting their house on fire and hoping the just person trying to kill you is in there and no one else. The fact that those blindly supporting Israel against these monsters can’t see that is frightening. If your only way to fight monster is to become monsters yourself, than you are no better than them.
When the monster uses innocent people as human shields it’s the monster who is responsible for their deaths
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Michie
Upvote 0

expos4ever

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2008
10,661
5,770
Montreal, Quebec
✟251,078.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
If they do not repent, God destroys His enemies, and the enemies of His people.... He does not coddle nor protect His enemies nor the enemies of His people. (except when He chooses to do so , using all to show His Sovereignty like with King Cyrus)
Maybe. Regardless of what God does, we know what we are to do. And that is to love our enemies. So let God do what he will. Were the Hamas attacks indefensible? Of course. Does Israel have a "right" to avenge? Well, not from a Christian perspective - I think it would be extremely hard to defend the position that Christians should participate in any sense in acts of vengeance, whether directly or cheering from the sidelines. I want to stress that I draw a distinction between the motivation of vengeance and a motivation of taking action to eliminate a material threat. I would say that Israel certainly has that right.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BPPLEE

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
9,925
3,516
60
Montgomery
✟142,506.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Maybe. Regardless of what God does, we know what we are to do. And that is to love our enemies. So let God do what he will. Were the Hamas attacks indefensible? Of course. Does Israel have a "right" to avenge? Well, not from a Christian perspective - I think it would be extremely hard to defend the position that Christians should participate in any sense in acts of vengeance, whether directly or cheering from the sidelines. I want to stress that I draw a distinction between the motivation of vengeance and a motivation of taking action to eliminate a material threat. I would say that Israel certainly has that right.
And that’s what they are trying to do
 
Upvote 0

Aaron112

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2022
2,549
538
TULSA
✟53,912.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
In Relationship
I would say that Israel certainly has that right.
To me now on topic, this was really all that is important in your post that I just read.

I think that philosophizing about love, even biblical love, misses the point.
 
Upvote 0

expos4ever

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2008
10,661
5,770
Montreal, Quebec
✟251,078.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I see at least one poster arguing that Israel retains special status in God's eyes. I really don't think that is a scripturally defensible position, given what Paul writes in the New testament. According to Paul, Israel's special status came to an end at the cross.
 
Upvote 0

Pommer

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic
Sep 13, 2008
16,660
10,471
Earth
✟143,302.00
Country
United States
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
Does "love your enemies" mean rollover and let your enemies kidnap your family members and let your enemies wipe you out?

Make no mistake about it, that's what would happen if the Israelis took an unconditional "turn the other cheek" approach.

If Hamas laid down their weapons tomorrow, there would be no more conflict
If IDF laid down their weapons tomorrow, there would be no more Jews
I think the “pray for your enemies” thing was more of a metaphysical admonition than a practical one; given, it was spake at a time when the “enemy” was the Roman Empire (which, as ruthless as it was) didn’t put up with “local disputes” but would rather crush any “rebellion” tout-de-suite.

Jesus was saying, to survive you really got no choice but to “kill them with kindness”: besides, if you’re really a Citizen of the Kingdom, you’ll already know that this present world isn’t the real reality but is only a shadow of the real reality.

Sure, your enemies can wipe you off the face of the Earth, but what’s that matter, since you are Children of the Father in heaven!

The lack of pacifism in Christianity has always been a stumbling block to unlocking the full potential of living a life of faith.

But I’m a heathen, so what would I know?
 
  • Useful
Reactions: John Helpher
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BPPLEE

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
9,925
3,516
60
Montgomery
✟142,506.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I see at least one poster arguing that Israel retains special status in God's eyes. I really don't think that is a scripturally defensible position, given what Paul writes in the New testament. According to Paul, Israel's special status came to an end at the cross.
You are talking about replacement theology. God made promises to Israel that are specifically for Israel.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Aaron112
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.