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[QueSeraSera]

I don't think this should have anything to do with leadership . Its more about doing your share /part . I don't understand why someone would need to be told they are the leader to lift a finger doing anything to contribute to the work of life.

I agree with CG too . I think its more of an expectation now that the bulk of household work should not fall on the woman . More men now are gracefully and without complaint taking on more of that responsibility than they ever have in the past. So I think what we are hearing are the women that have husbands that are lagging behind in their antiquated ideas that is primarily a woman's "job."

As far as a guy that wont provide anything financially or take care of the home ? I again don't understand how that has anything with leadership . That's just being an outright lazy bum. And people like that have always been around .

 

[QueSeraSera]

I was actually thinking about both provision as well as division of chores -

ValleyGal was referring to both .

 

[ChristianGolfer]

ValleyGal was referring to both .

Hah, I should read the rest of the thread before replying.

 

[Hetta]

I wonder whether too many boys are still being raised with the perspective that because they are male, all they have to do is go to work and rule the household, and that makes them a 'man'. I do know households where boys are not expected to do chores or take their share of responsibility for the home, because that is 'women's work'. Really, this is still expressed in the 21st century in some houses. So, boys can take it easy, play games, do 'boy's' things while daughters are pressed upon to clean, cook, and take on more than their fair share of duties. Oh, and they also now should work outside the home as well as inside the home.

With such an inequality in childhood, how do we raise adults who suddenly should understand that actually they need to share responsibility and be helpmates to each other?

FTR, all of my kids have equal responsibility for cleaning and cooking. Boys do not think they are superior to girls or have less responsibility for caring for their clothes, belongings, or cleaning the house in which they live. They see their dad and myself both working, and both taking care of household duties. They see equality - and I hope that they will carry that on to their own married lives.

 

[Boidae]

As far as a guy that wont provide anything financially or take care of the home ? I again don't understand how that has anything with leadership . That's just being an outright lazy bum. And people like that have always been around .

I do not provide anything financially to the household. My providing is in the form of caring for my wife and our daughter. I cook, clean, grocery shop, take care of our pets, laundry, change diapers, clip nails, bathe our daughter, and a host of other things. Yet (not saying you), I have been called a lazy bum because I do not work and bring in an income.

My wife has gone back to work, her normal one day a week for a couple hours as that is all she can handle. She does it because she has been with her place of employment for 14 years and doesn't want to give it up, plus it gets her out of the house. I have been called a lazy bum because my wife works one day a week.

I do have a job, it's taking care of my wife and child. I am a caregiver, it's a shame that those who are so closed minded (again, not you) cannot see that I probably work harder than they do and then some.

Yes, I play video games, but that is when I have down time. I will probably play them some a little later, as I have already cleaned the toilets, swept the floor (we have mostly laminate in our apartment), changed the litter in the litter box, used the hoky on our carpeted rooms, did some dusting, and put our daughter down for her nap.

I have become the homemaker out of necessity and I believe that God was grooming me just for this purpose throughout my life when I look back at what I have learned and experienced. I have the medical skills to help my wife when needed, I was a stay-at-home father for 5 1/2 years, and I have a drive to care for my wife and daughter in the capacity that I am.

I was looking into doing a medical billing and coding course, and try to do the job at home so that I can be home and still be able to do what I do now, but I am thinking that door has been shut, since I have been told that it can take 1-2 years after schooling before being able to do the work at home, as you have to be able to prove yourself. Three years is too long for me to be out of the home 5 days a week, at least 8 hours a day.

 

[QueSeraSera]

I do not provide anything financially to the household. My providing is in the form of caring for my wife and our daughter. I cook, clean, grocery shop, take care of our pets, laundry, change diapers, clip nails, bathe our daughter, and a host of other things. Yet (not saying you), I have been called a lazy bum because I do not work and bring in an income.

Well that's ignorant. Not bringing in an income does not = lazy bum .

I have been called a lazy bum because my wife works one day a week.

Again ignorant . You need to get around different people .

I do have a job, it's taking care of my wife and child. I am a caregiver, it's a shame that those who are so closed minded (again, not you) cannot see that I probably work harder than they do and then some.

Yes it is a shame . And many many stay at home moms will have much empathy for you .SAHM's work has been marginalized and mocked for ages. They are seen as having it easy in comparison to work outside the home .

Yes, I play video games, but that is when I have down time. I will probably play them some a little later, as I have already cleaned the toilets, swept the floor (we have mostly laminate in our apartment), changed the litter in the litter box, used the hoky on our carpeted rooms, did some dusting, and put our daughter down for her nap.

You don't have to justify your self to me .

I have become the homemaker out of necessity and I believe that God was grooming me just for this purpose throughout my life when I look back at what I have learned and experienced. I have the medical skills to help my wife when needed, I was a stay-at-home father for 5 1/2 years, and I have a drive to care for my wife and daughter in the capacity that I am.

Indeed it takes a certain kind of person to take on that role and do it well. Including being self motivated because you do not get a lot of encouragement or appreciation and of course no pay check in your name .

I was looking into doing a medical billing and coding course, and try to do the job at home so that I can be home and still be able to do what I do now, but I am thinking that door has been shut, since I have been told that it can take 1-2 years after schooling before being able to do the work at home, as you have to be able to prove yourself. Three years is too long for me to be out of the home 5 days a week, at least 8 hours a day.

Well good luck . I hope you find something you can do from home .

 

[Hetta]

I don't understand the preoccupation with husbands who play video games. Let me just say that mine does not, but in the past (as married adults with children) we both played and enjoyed video games. Does that make us lazy, useless parents? I don't think so. It was an outlet and it was fun. Now if either gender plays a video game all day long and neglects the entire house and kids, obviously that's a problem, but otherwise there is nothing wrong with playing video games.

 

[QueSeraSera]

I don't play video games much now . But I also don't get what the big deal is if you do .I do other things I like to do . If I wanted to play video games I would . I don't see why I would need to defend that ?

 

[WolfGate]

The chores part this thread drifted to is easy - see the link. We'll respond to science all right!
Study shows men who do household chores have less sex
(Tongue firmly in cheek).

My serious initial thought on the OP was hit on early in this thread. With so many men being raised in households without fathers, how do they learn how men are to contribute? A single parent, mother only household is going to result in them seeing the mother doing everything. Certainly not the only factor, but it has to be a big one.

 

[musingsofacac]

It seems there are a lot of people expressing similar issues in their marriages right now...women who seem to need to take on much more responsibility than they should because their husbands either do not contribute or do not contribute enough. I have noticed it in more places than on the forum here as well.

My question is why? In a world where a lot of men and couples still believe that the man is the "leader" and primary provider, etc, how is it possible that these "leaders and providers" are not leading and providing?

Are women advancing in society because of feminism, or are women simply picking up the slack that men leave? Have men abandoned their leadership post and women simply have no choice? Are women doing this out of necessity or out of rebellion? (When I say "men" and "women" I mean in very general and global terms, not specific couples, since we all know someone who does not fit the mould)

Just to clarify, my own worldview does not include men as leaders and providers; my husband and I share these responsibilities in our home, and we are egalitarian. Either way, if a man is not doing his share, whether it's an equal share or "primary" (leader/provider) share, there is a problem, leaving the wife to pick up his slack and do more than her share.

I don't get it. Why are so many men doing this?

I actually have seen this with some men(relatives of mine) where they just don't want to work. Its makes me sick.

But then I see some great men(and my father was an excellent role model in this) that worked 60 hours a week most of his life to support our family. He saw in the Scriptures and taught me those Scriptures that a man must provide for his family, it is not an option for a man to work - that was what I was taught.

My mom worked on an off growing up, but he always made it clear it was an option for her to work, not her duty, that was his.

When my mom worked, my Dad helped out more around the house, but when my mom did not work(was fulltime stay at home mom) he did not do much as he believed(and so do I) that her full time job was taking care of the home.

I believe that if the husband and wife both work full time, then they should split the household chores 50/50. But if the wife stays home, that is her job. She needs to put in 8 hours a day working on her home, preparing meals and all the other things the same way her husband puts in 8 hours at work.

I believe we have a problem on both ends - we have lazy men that don't want to provide, and we have lazy house wives(and I have seen those in my relatives) that spend all day on facebook, watching tv or shopping and should be just as ashamed of themselves. Everyone has a job to do, and they should do it.

As far as the source of the issue with men, I think its the same as the issue with lazy house wives. We as a society don't teach our children about duty and responsibility - those are swear words in our society today.

While I might teach my children different roles and responsibilities based on my traditional gender role world view, the concept would be the same for egalitarians. Children need to be taught to pick up after themselves and have responsibility. That everyone needs to contribute, whether they are at home or working a job.

 

[ChristianGolfer]

I don't understand the preoccupation with husbands who play video games. Let me just say that mine does not, but in the past (as married adults with children) we both played and enjoyed video games. Does that make us lazy, useless parents? I don't think so. It was an outlet and it was fun. Now if either gender plays a video game all day long and neglects the entire house and kids, obviously that's a problem, but otherwise there is nothing wrong with playing video games.

I've been playing Super Mario Wii U this morning. My husband bought it for me. He's the best!

 

[ValleyGal]

I don't think this should have anything to do with leadership .

There is a reason I brought up leadership. If someone's worldview is egalitarian, the husband is just as equally responsible for the home as the wife - with regard to all things including income, chores, repairs, maintenance, etc. If a man does not contribute to this dynamic by not working as well as not lifting a finger around the home, that is an issue.

If someone's worldview is hierarchy or complementarian, typically this means that the husband is the final decision maker and often the traditional role of breadwinner falls on him, and often the wife is a stay-home wife/mom. There is nothing wrong with it, as long as both spouses agree that is how they want to live their marriage. But there is something wrong with it - as brought up in this thread - that if he does not go to work or contribute at home, etc, then he is still not doing his job as a "leader/provider."

I wonder whether too many boys are still being raised with the perspective that because they are male, all they have to do is go to work and rule the household, and that makes them a 'man'.

I would understand this explanation more if these men actually worked outside the home/provided financially. But there's this dynamic where husband does nothing and wife does everything - from work outside the home to pay all the bills, to still be the homemaker and take care of everything at home. This is all going on while there is still a larger number of men who expect the traditional leadership role in the marriage than women. Do these men who do not contribute - are they also the ones who expect that since they are the "head" to still be the primary decision maker even though they do nothing to contribute to their lives together? And if they are egalitarian, do they just not get it that they are supposed to be responsible?

Someone brought up the idea that having a single mom who did everything might actually contribute to this mindset. I wonder if there is a correlation between single parenting and these "lazy" men. Maybe it's generation of entitlement and more boys are raised with this sense of entitlement than girls. Maybe it's how children are parented - some were raised without chores to help instill a sense of responsibility. I don't know, but it's a really concerning dynamic if it is actually a trend.

Here's the question then. What do we do about it? What do these wives do when their husbands behave like entitled teenagers who do not have to make an effort in life?

 

[musingsofacac]

I don't understand the preoccupation with husbands who play video games. Let me just say that mine does not, but in the past (as married adults with children) we both played and enjoyed video games. Does that make us lazy, useless parents? I don't think so. It was an outlet and it was fun. Now if either gender plays a video game all day long and neglects the entire house and kids, obviously that's a problem, but otherwise there is nothing wrong with playing video games.

I agree about video games. I love video games and so do my kids. Anything can be used to an extreme and I do have to sometimes get my kids off them to do other things(including chores).

But in moderation, video games can be great fun, I play with my kids on Friday nights. That's family night and we play video games for hours.

The problem is when have young 20 year old guys(like a relative of mine) that are playing video games instead of looking for a job. Its is his life and its a real problem for him.

Just like drinking is not sin, but getting drunk is - so too video games can be fine moderation, but if they take over your life then its a problem.

 

[ChristianGolfer]

The chores part this thread drifted to is easy - see the link. We'll respond to science all right!
Study shows men who do household chores have less sex
(Tongue firmly in cheek).

My serious initial thought on the OP was hit on early in this thread. With so many men being raised in households without fathers, how do they learn how men are to contribute? A single parent, mother only household is going to result in them seeing the mother doing everything. Certainly not the only factor, but it has to be a big one.

While that may be true... The same would be true for boys raised in homes where there is a father but the mother still does all of the household chores.

I think it comes down to how we teach our children. I was raised in a home where all the kids had chores. By the time we were in high school, my parents didn't do much of the cleaning and cooking. We have to teach our kids, boys and girls, to do their own share. And when they grow up, they will be more likely to continue to do their share. I think many parents, single or married, too often neglect to teach their kids that. It's often easier to do it for them. Kids make mistakes. It takes a lot of commitment and patience to teach them to do it right and to enforce it.

 

[QueSeraSera]

Video games or otherwise . I think the problem is that too many already have the idea that SAHM/D role is a blow off as it is . You really aren't ever or are never working hard if you ever actually relax. Because you don't punch a time clock and have set hours start to finish .

Not to mention there are plenty of paid jobs out there that you aren't non stop required to focus on a work task the entire time you are there .Its more of an on call as needed environment. I had a job one time that the nature of it I had more time idling than actual work . In which I would read or talk on the phone .It was actually boring I wished I had more to do . That job was a blow off compared to staying at home with children and keeping the house .The only difference is I got paid for one and not the other even for just sitting there reading a book .And of course at home you are "at home" so you can eat when you choose to eat instead of "lunch hour" and you can relax as far as dress and such . You have more freedom as far as how you go about the day .Because you're at home .That's a perk .And your responsibilities are spread out over a 14 hours day .Of course you will not be non stop working 14 hours.Who does ?

Anyway if you play video games or whatever in between taking care of your responsibilities who cares ?

 

[musingsofacac]

Here's the question then. What do we do about it? What do these wives do when their husbands behave like entitled teenagers who do not have to make an effort in life?

As I have said previously I think there are two problems we have today and the sources may or may not be the same. Lazy men(who don't want to provide or do anything) and Lazy stay at home moms.

The real question is - what do you do when someone is not carrying their weight in the relationship(this would equally apply whether you are egalitarian or traditional)?

If a man does not want to work or do anything and his wife works and does the house and everything what should she do?

If a stay at home wife barely does the laundry and expects her husband to cook dinner when he gets home from work, spends 90 percent of her day on a couch or on the phone or internet how should he handle that?

 

[Boidae]

Not to mention there are plenty of paid jobs out there that you aren't non stop required to focus on a work task the entire time you are there .Its more of an on call as needed environment.

Yep, being an EMT is just like that. We had days where we had one call during a twelve hour shift, so we napped, or we went to the beach (it was two blocks away) and sat on a bench, went to the mall or if our homes were within response time, we would stop at home.

Then there were days that were non-stop running. I did a 12 hour shift like that one night. We did 12 calls in 12 hours. I have no idea how we did it. When it was a busy day, we worked our tails off.

Also had a day, it was Thanksgiving, and we were over my partners parent's house eating Thanksgiving dinner and we had an hour left in our shift. No calls all day mind you. We got a call that the patient needed to be picked up 45 minutes from the time of the call, then brought up to NYC which was a 2 1/2 hour drive one way. So we worked 17 hours that day.

 

[Hetta]

Here's the question then. What do we do about it? What do these wives do when their husbands behave like entitled teenagers who do not have to make an effort in life?

Those men should suffer the consequences. I would find it incredibly hard to do this myself in their place, but what I think the wife should do is just stop taking on that extra role. Going to work and paying the bills - well, she would have to keep on doing that to keep a roof over her head too, but when she gets home, then she clocks off. She washes her own clothes, cooks her own meals, but lets the rest of the mess continue to accumulate. She keeps the money in an account out of which she pays the bills and gets the groceries and gas, but he has no access to the money.

IOW, if he wants to act like a small child, he'll live like a small child.

 

[Hetta]

If a stay at home wife barely does the laundry and expects her husband to cook dinner when he gets home from work, spends 90 percent of her day on a couch or on the phone or internet how should he handle that?

You need to start your own thread as that is not the topic of this thread.

 

[Hetta]

I think it comes down to how we teach our children. I was raised in a home where all the kids had chores. By the time we were in high school, my parents didn't do much of the cleaning and cooking. We have to teach our kids, boys and girls, to do their own share. And when they grow up, they will be more likely to continue to do their share. I think many parents, single or married, too often neglect to teach their kids that. It's often easier to do it for them. Kids make mistakes. It takes a lot of commitment and patience to teach them to do it right and to enforce it.

Yes! This is my thinking. In my childhood home, both boys and girls had chores, and there was no division on gender lines. For instance, boys cooked and cleaned up and girls mowed and did yard work. I have done the same thing with my kids.

There is no genetic predisposition for these chores, or otherwise why would the top chefs in the world be men? My husband is a very good cook and can turn his hand to anything. I can cook too but it bores me. Therefore, he cooks a lot of the time. I do other things that he doesn't really want to do. There is no gender demarcation line in our home.