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[QueSeraSera]

Originally Posted by Boidae View Post
Growing up I was in a single parent home. My mom. I learned how to cook at an early age, I also learned how to clean at an early age. It's not that I was required to clean, but I wanted to help my mom out.

I can't believe we all missed that . Not only is that the heart of it . But he was raised by a single mother and that flies in the face of the excuse that men are being given here to be slackers because they had no "man " showing them a "man role" includes housework.

 

[Boidae]

I can't believe we all missed that . Not only is that the heart of it . But he was raised by a single mother and that flies in the face of the excuse that men are being given here to be slackers because they had no "man " showing them a "man role" includes housework.

To be fair though, there are some issues with me because I was raised by a single mom. Just not on the housework end of it, that I have down pretty well.

I don't know how to be a great husband in a bunch of areas because I didn't have a male role model that I could look up to that was in a relationship with my mom. There were men, including my second step-dad, but most seen me as a tag along. They also didn't really treat my mom well. My second step-dad is more of a big brother than anything, and I was 16 when they were married and mostly out of the house with friends and past the really impressionable age.

I didn't have a Christian mentor either growing up, but then we were Catholic and I walked away from the church and God for 25 years. Now that I am back, I still cannot find a mentor and am going it alone in my walk and learning by being self taught.

 

[ChristianGolfer]

I'd just like to quickly point out that, that statement is incredibly off-putting.
I am educated, and a professional - I am also a SAHM, I take offense that staying home is considered a 'waste' of my education.

So just for future reference, you may want to think about how you word that opinion.

~ Niffer

I am educated and a professional and a SAHM too. I didn't think Hetta's statement was off-putting. I know many women who do feel that way. I don't feel like I'm wasting my education because I'm currently staying home but it also doesn't bother me that other women feel like they would be. That is how some women feel and that's okay.

 

[QueSeraSera]

I don't know how to be a great husband in a bunch of areas because I didn't have a male role model that I could look up to that was in a relationship with my mom. There were men, including my second step-dad, but most seen me as a tag along. They also didn't really treat my mom well. My second step-dad is more of a big brother than anything, and I was 16 when they were married and mostly out of the house with friends and past the really impressionable age.

I understand . And sorry you were treated like a tag a long that is hurtful boy or girl .But what you are describing can happen in any family .Mom can be a bad example how to be a good wife dad too as a husband . Otherwise every child brought up in an "in tact" family with both mom and dad present would have perfect marriages.

 

[mkgal1]

I don't know how to be a great husband in a bunch of areas because I didn't have a male role model that I could look up to that was in a relationship with my mom.

I didn't have a Christian mentor either growing up. Now that I am back, I still cannot find a mentor and am going it alone in my walk and learning by being self taught.

I don't want to get too personal (or embarrass you)....but you just laid out how you *are* a great husband (and have been uniquely equipped for where you are now). We all have room to grow of course.

 

[QueSeraSera]

I am educated and a professional and a SAHM too. I didn't think Hetta's statement was off-putting. I know many women who do feel that way. I don't feel like I'm wasting my education because I'm currently staying home but it also doesn't bother me that other women feel like they would be. That is how some women feel and that's okay.

To add to that . I have friends that aren't higher (college) educated but chose to stay in the work force after children building their careers, who felt they were better serving their family that way in the long term . And they had a choice too. They like to work . And they like the financial advantages for the family .

So its not just "educated " women that feel like they may be not fulfilling their potential by staying at home .Not that you said that but LOL..I have a friend that had 10 years as the personal assistant to a business man who she had worked up to a great salary /great relationship with her boss (his right hand man so to speak) and she didn't want to "throw that all away." when her son was born . She thought about it . And even tried part time .But went back and now has over 25 years with the same company .

 

[musingsofacac]

I must have missed this in the thread. This is really scary anyone has this kind of view. Hetta makes a good point. Who, then, does the cooking and cleanup on weekends? When does she get her "days off"? Does she accrue vacation time? Who looks after the children in the evenings when her 8 hours are done?

The truth is, managing a home (with children) is a 24-hour-a-day job. Sleep time only means those are on-call hours. And does that also mean that husband only has to play with the children and does not have to do any of the work associated with raising them? This is really pathetic. My ex (son's father, who had this kind of mindset of women's work raising children) arranged to spend a day with our son after the separation. I had booked things to do for the day, but he ended up calling me to come and get our son several hours early. Why? Baby needed a diaper change and he would not do that "work." Pfft. Last time he was allowed to see our son alone. In fact, from then on, he never exercised his parental rights.

Going to "work" outside the home is that one person's job. Making a home takes two, whether both work outside the home or not. Boidae's wife has a debilitating illness and so he does most of the work at home. Does that mean his wife has never changed a diaper or does not have to help with the dishes if she feels able? I'm sure she finds ways to contribute when she is able. And if there is a SAHM/W, then she likely does more or even the bulk of the work, but that does not let husband off the hook for contributing to the home with more than finances. Just one of the reasons my first marriage did not work out...he never lifted a finger - even when I was pregnant and on bedrest. There I am 7-9 months pregnant on bedrest, still doing all the housework and taking the heavy trash out. I was in and out of the hospital for those last couple of months because of his lazy hiney....

Hetta made a good point that maybe I should make a separate thread out of this(I do believe the two are related though - lazy men and lazy women) but I will make separate thread to respond to yours and other's thoughts on this issue and leave this forum for what's wrong with lazy guys and where they comes from(which I do agree is a problem).

 

[QueSeraSera]

Hetta made a good point that maybe I should make a separate thread out of this(I do believe the two are related though - lazy men and lazy women) but I will make separate thread to respond to yours and other's thoughts on this issue and leave this forum for what's wrong with lazy guys and where they comes from(which I do agree is a problem).

You sound a little defensive . Almost itching to say something like "so women are lazy too."

Look up the stats . Women still working or not do more at home work than men . That is not to take away from the men who do ,do their share and even more . But the trend is not "lazy housewives.'

You like your stereotypes too...More than once you mentioned "helping women out around the house ." Supposedly in all your marriage books that is a common complaint of women . Why now do you want the topic to be lazy house wives?

 

[musingsofacac]

You sound a little defensive . Almost itching to say something like "so women are lazy too."

Look up the stats . Women still working or not do more at home work than men . That is not to take away from the men who do ,do their share and even more . But the trend is not "lazy housewives.'

You like your stereotypes too...More than once you mentioned "helping women out around the house ." Supposedly in all your marriage books that is a common complaint of women . Why now do you want the topic to be lazy house wives?

QueSeraSera,

I would concede to you that most surveys today do paint the picture you have said. Wife works, husband works, but she still does the bulk of the home stuff and taking care of the kids.

However, even if the problem is not as big as the one in this thread, it is still a problem. The reason there are not many survey's about lazy house wives is because that is a whole lot less politically correct to talk about or ask about than men who don't do their fair share.

I agree with ValleyGirl that she has a valid point about some men today and their laziness at home and in providing.

As to why I bring up lazy house wives - you will just have to read my thread that I just posted to find out.

 

[Boidae]

I don't want to get too personal (or embarrass you)....but you just laid out how you *are* a great husband (and have been uniquely equipped for where you are now). We all have room to grow of course.

Thanks MK for the kind words.

One of the areas where I wish I was great in was relating to her emotions. No matter how hard I try, I cannot relate to her emotions on a level where she would like me to.

The other area is talking. She wants to talk deeply about things (this may have to do with relating to her emotions as well), but I am not a very deep person. I am pretty superficial when it comes to talking. I do not know how to relate on a deep level.

I am great when it comes to the physical kind of things, such as the housework, taking the dog or Mikayla for a walk, checking over the car, moving things around the house and other things that require physical means to get them done.

I almost feel mentally stunted because I cannot relate the way my wife wants me to.

 

[musingsofacac]

Thanks MK for the kind words.

One of the areas where I wish I was great in was relating to her emotions. No matter how hard I try, I cannot relate to her emotions on a level where she would like me to.

The other area is talking. She wants to talk deeply about things (this may have to do with relating to her emotions as well), but I am not a very deep person. I am pretty superficial when it comes to talking. I do not know how to relate on a deep level.

I am great when it comes to the physical kind of things, such as the housework, taking the dog or Mikayla for a walk, checking over the car, moving things around the house and other things that require physical means to get them done.

I almost feel mentally stunted because I cannot relate the way my wife wants me to.

I agree we all have room for growth. I struggle at the just listening to my wife vent - and not trying to fix something concept. She will complain about a person or thing, and I want to jump in and try to fix it. Sometimes you can't.

As far as expression goes, in our relationship we are actually the opposite of many married couples(or so our couple of marriage counselors have told us). Most men you have to pry their feelings out with a crow bar, and women share their feelings more easily is what I have been told by the counselors.

But in our case, my emotions fall out right on the floor, and I have been know to shed a tear or two in a counseling session. My wife on the other hand is like a lock box with her emotions and the counselor has to use a crow bar to get them out. She thinks most emotional women are silly(she does have emotions, but they don't come out as often).

 

[WolfGate]

I can't believe we all missed that . Not only is that the heart of it . But he was raised by a single mother and that flies in the face of the excuse that men are being given here to be slackers because they had no "man " showing them a "man role" includes housework.

QueSeraSera - This is twice now you have referenced my post discussing if the trend of single mother households might be part of the cause of the question in the OP, and where you have claimed it was presented as an excuse for men not doing housework. It was not presented as an excuse. I have re-read my post several times and honestly cannot see how someone could reasonably interpret it that way.

 

[QueSeraSera]

QueSeraSera - This is twice now you have referenced my post discussing if the trend of single mother households might be part of the cause of the question in the OP, and where you have claimed it was presented as an excuse for men not doing housework. It was not presented as an excuse. I have re-read my post several times and honestly cannot see how someone could reasonably interpret it that way.

I apologize . I should have said a "reason" not an excuse.

 

[WolfGate]

I apologize . I should have said a "reason" not an excuse.

Thank you, QueSeraSera.

If I were to clarify my point further in my first post, I'd ask if the lack of a male role model might be a "contributing factor". I think that would be even clearer to my intent. Certainly factors can be overcome, and in many individual cases they are! When talking about trends among large populations, understanding those factors can help society solve problems. That's where I intended to get. And I certainly agree it is not acceptable to allow those factors to become excuses for bad behavior.

 

[hijklmnop]

Society had made an environment where men are no longer made to feel like responsibility is their role. That their leadership is unwanted and not necessary.
That there is no reason to 'step up' into being a productive person if someone is there to "do everything" for them.

They've been pacified into child-men, by women who tell them they aren't needed.


It's hardly surprising that this is an issue.

~ Niffer

Not needing a man to be the boss of you is not the same as not expecting a man to function as a grown up in society. I find this view to be insulting to mens' intelligence (in general...I'm not personally offended).

You just blamed women for lazy men's' behaviour. I find that ridiculous. I personally don't think there's any excuse for a man who is an adult to not understand that every household needs an income and every home needs to be taken care of in terms of housework. IMO it's not a gender issue, it's a maturity issue. To say that women and/or essentially feminism is to blame for men who are spoiled, lazy and entitled is ridiculous IMO. If I have to tell my husband he's the boss and I can't live without him and I need him to provide financially for me (all not true) in order to stroke his ego enough for him to give a crap and share the household responsibilities in whatever manner we both find wisest, something is seriously WRONG.

 

[hijklmnop]

I am educated and a professional and a SAHM too. I didn't think Hetta's statement was off-putting. I know many women who do feel that way. I don't feel like I'm wasting my education because I'm currently staying home but it also doesn't bother me that other women feel like they would be. That is how some women feel and that's okay.

Thank you for this. I spent thousands of dollars and hours getting my college education, used it for a few years, then set it aside to be a SAHM for a few years. When the time came that I had to go back to work for financial reasons, I had come *this close* to losing the qualifications I had worked for and having to start over. I will not let that happen again. I've been working for almost four years again now and have vowed not to let my education/qualifications slide again. It doesn't bother me a hill of beans when other women choose to stay home, but personally, I feel that I am wasting my education when I'm not out there working in a relevant field.

 

[Niffer]

Thank you for this. I spent thousands of dollars and hours getting my college education, used it for a few years, then set it aside to be a SAHM for a few years. When the time came that I had to go back to work for financial reasons, I had come *this close* to losing the qualifications I had worked for and having to start over. I will not let that happen again. I've been working for almost four years again now and have vowed not to let my education/qualifications slide again. It doesn't bother me a hill of beans when other women choose to stay home, but personally, I feel that I am wasting my education when I'm not out there working in a relevant field.

And personally, I do not.

Differences of opinions are awesome.

~ Niffer

 

[Inkachu]

Growing up I was in a single parent home. My mom. I learned how to cook at an early age, I also learned how to clean at an early age. It's not that I was required to clean, but I wanted to help my mom out. As I got older though, I didn't want to clean anymore... lol. However, I learned that if I don't do it, it's not getting done real quick.

I think this is a key point. My husband was also raised by a single woman (his grandmother) and he was expected to take care of himself, she didn't baby him. So I think that, even if a man was raised by a single woman, whether or not he'll turn into a big baby that expects to be mothered, or become a capable, independent, functional man, depends a lot on whether the woman who raised him taught him how to be self-sufficient or took care of all his needs instead.

 

[Inkachu]

Society had made an environment where men are no longer made to feel like responsibility is their role. That their leadership is unwanted and not necessary.
That there is no reason to 'step up' into being a productive person if someone is there to "do everything" for them.

They've been pacified into child-men, by women who tell them they aren't needed.


It's hardly surprising that this is an issue.

~ Niffer

I agree with this premise, but I don't think you can just blame "women" (the entire gender) for it. It's a societal issue, involving everyone. Yes, the role of men has been diminished and demeaned by loud, uber-feminist voices, but that isn't all women. And the men who are perfectly content to lay back and be mommied all their lives are just as much to blame. The solution (IMHO) is for the women involved to learn to let their men BE men, and for the men to grow some nads and step up to become the men they're supposed to be. It's going to take participation from both genders.

 

[Inkachu]

So what happens when he comes home from his 8 hour workday and her 8 hour workday is also finished? Do they both get to sit down, watch tv and never lift another finger in the home? Who cooks? Who washes dishes? Who takes out the trash?
The reality is that most SAMH/D's do not work an 8 hour workday. Those with young children are on the go from the moment that child wakes up until that child or children go to bed. They don't get a lunch break like the spouse who works outside the home. Many of them continue to work long after the working spouse is done at work and comes home.

That's why, regardless of who works outside the home and who works inside the home, when both are home, they should be sharing childcare and chores, because - realistically - for both of them, their work day is over, so what comes after is 'overtime' and as the home and kids belong to both of them, they are both equally responsible for all of that.

I agree with Musings original post, and with Hetta's reply. If one spouse (whether it's the wife OR the husband) is at home all day, they need to be actively taking care of the home; the meals, the chores, the kids, the errands. But once BOTH spouses are home, as long as they've both put in their fair share of work that day (on the job OR at home) they need to pitch in EQUALLY with whatever is left to be done at home. I spent 11 years a single working mother, and let me tell you, my job was a LOT easier and less demanding than being at home, where I had to take care of the house, the chores (of course, with my child helping as able), the bills, the errands, the meals, homework, emotionally invested time with my son, etc. Sitting here at work was a BREEZE compared to that.