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More about conservative Chrisitanity

Tema

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May peace of God b eupon thos who follow the guidence

Seems like a unique Christian forum with many things on it. I am a conservative Muslim. I am a very accurate type of a person who verifies everything. So I need accurat einformation from Christians in order to varify if it is accurate.

So the real conservatives from my research are Catholics. I would like to know how they preserved the Bible? We know many books from the Bible are missing. And the most authentic Bible that exists is the Hebrew Bible. I would like to know how had the early church preserved the Bible.

Although I believe there are things in the Bible that God has revealed to Isa, peace be upon him, I do believe there are additions and mistakes.

I do not know about these additions. I would like to know more about them, or how has it happened.
 

paul1149

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Tema,

There is excellent evidence that the Bible we have today is as originally written. From the earliest days, the texts were treated with great care. The "latency period", between our earliest manuscripts and the original texts, is extremely short compared to other ancient books. The canon of scripture was compiled over many years, with much debate, and finally set firm, and it is accepted throughout the Christian world with only relatively minor deviation.

You might find Josh McDowell's book, Evidence that demands a verdict, interesting. He goes into these issues, and a lot more, and does it in a fascinating way. We can be sure that the texts we have are reliable.
 
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a pilgrim

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May peace of God b eupon thos who follow the guidence
Seems like a unique Christian forum with many things on it. I am a conservative Muslim. I am a very accurate type of a person who verifies everything. So I need accurat einformation from Christians in order to varify if it is accurate.
So the real conservatives from my research are Catholics.

Your research in not correct. The Roman Catholic Church was an "outgrowth" of the early church, but is not an "honest" representation of the historic Christian faith. It was a hybrid of faith and government, never taguth by scriptures. The real church existed along side of Catholicism and still exists. It is not a denomination, it does not have a name, they are the followers of Christ, or Isa, as you call him.

I would like to know how they preserved the Bible?

They did preserve some manuscripts, but many of those were corrupted by copiest, and those who took liberty to tamper with the text.

We know many books from the Bible are missing. And the most authentic Bible that exists is the Hebrew Bible.

You've been TOLD many of the books of the Bible are missing. However, extensive research has been done by the followers of Christ as well as secular scholars that confirm the authenticity and veracity of the texts that were cannonized as the Bible as we have it today.
Furthermore, only the Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew, (and Chaldean,) and was carefully kept in the Masoretic Text.

I would like to know how had the early church preserved the Bible.

With great carefulness, they made copies. And I must add with the guiding hand of the Holy Spirit of God because the bible is the Sword of the Spirit of God. It is God's word and he promised he would keep it unto all generations. Read:

Psalm 12
[6] The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
[7] Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.


Matthew 24
[35] Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

2 Peter
[16]For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

[21]For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

These are just SOME of God's promises concerning his word and it's preservation.

Although I believe there are things in the Bible that God has revealed to Isa, peace be upon him, I do believe there are additions and mistakes.

I believe you have been "informed" what to believe about the bible and it's accuracy by those who do not love the word of God and it's teaching of Christ, who is the only way.

John 14
[6]Jesus [Isa] saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
[insertion of Isa by me, Ben]
 
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CGL1023

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May peace of God b eupon thos who follow the guidence

Seems like a unique Christian forum with many things on it. I am a conservative Muslim. I am a very accurate type of a person who verifies everything. So I need accurat einformation from Christians in order to varify if it is accurate.

So the real conservatives from my research are Catholics. I would like to know how they preserved the Bible? We know many books from the Bible are missing. And the most authentic Bible that exists is the Hebrew Bible. I would like to know how had the early church preserved the Bible.

Although I believe there are things in the Bible that God has revealed to Isa, peace be upon him, I do believe there are additions and mistakes.

I do not know about these additions. I would like to know more about them, or how has it happened.

God has declared Himself to be all powerful and He declares that he exalts His Word even above His name (Ps 138:2). The conclusion to draw is that the Word is must be complete and accurate.
 
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ViaCrucis

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The development of the biblical Canon has taken place over the course of most of the last two thousand years.

The earliest Christians in general received those Scriptures which were in general accepted at the time; largely that meant the Septuagint. The Septuagint (also known as the LXX) is/was, according to the tradition, a translation originally made a few centuries before Jesus by a group of around seventy Jewish scholars living in Alexandria. The translation was made from Hebrew/Aramaic into Greek. This Greek translation of Jewish Scripture was easily received into the earliest Christian communities because Greek was the common language of the Roman Empire--it was the language of trade, commerce, politics and religious debate and communication.

These earliest Christian communities relied heavily upon these Scriptures as well as the verbal teaching of the Apostles (those sent out by Christ to the nations). One of the most important figures in the early Christian movement was Paul of Tarsus, a Pharisee-turned-Christian apostle due to a dramatic experience where he claimed to have encountered the risen Jesus and then became the most well known champion of the fledgling Jesus Movement.

Paul helped found several communities and also encouraged others with the help of many others, including Barnabas, Silas, as well as those among the Twelve (the core group of Jesus' disciples and apostles). Something Paul was prolific about was writing letters, he wrote to many of the early communities about many different topics relevant to those individual communities.

These early communities preserved many of his letters and began to circulate them and they began to be read in church communities other than the original recipients.

Further, these earlier Christian communities started to put the Jesus story which they had received down in writing, these became the Four Gospels.

Other early Christians also wrote material, mostly letters to individuals and groups of people. Other kinds of writings were also produced, apocalyptic material such as the Revelation of John, the Revelation of Peter, and the Shepherd of Hermas. They wrote down basic instruction and teaching (such as the Didache).

From early on there was a core group of Christian writings that began to be read alongside "the Scriptures" (aka the Septuagint). Mostly the letters of Paul and the Four Gospels, but there were others: several letters by John the Elder (who may or may not be John the Apostle), a couple by Peter, and so on.

Eventually Christian leaders started discussing what is proper to be read in the churches and which isn't. By the end of the second century the beginnings of a New Testament begins to take shape with a group of books that were nearly unanimously agreed to be Scripture: The Four Gospels, the Letters of Paul (including Hebrews), one letter of John, one letter of Peter, and the Acts of the Apostles.

There were other books that were commonly read but there was some dispute over their appropriateness and/or authenticity: A second letter of Peter, two other letters of John, a letter of Jude, a letter of James, a letter of Barnabas, the Shepherd of Hermas, the Didache, two letters of Clement, an apocalypse by John (the Revelation of John), and an apocalypse by Peter. This list of books were generally known as Antilegomena, that is, they were disputed.

Contrary to some claims made by shoddy scholars on the internet and in poorly researched books, there was no large action to remove books, nor were the books which became today's New Testament a decision made by a single group of clergy. Even with various regional church councils in the fourth and fifth centuries there continued to be debate as to the value and authority of several of these books.

The Armenian Bible at one time contained a 3rd Corinthians. The Latin Vulgate even into the middle ages contained an epistle to the Laodiceans. In the 8th century a lot of the churches in the East continued to struggl to accept the Revelation of John. One of our most important biblical codices from the 5th century contains the Didache, the Epistle of Barnabas and 1 Clement.

The New Testament has come down to us in the present largely as a result of general consensus. There has never been a truly ecumenical council--that is a concerted effort for a pan-Christian exercise to define the Bible once and for all--and as such there continues to be disagreement among Christians on exactly what belongs in the Bible and what doesn't. Case-in-point: Most Protestants don't have the Deuterocanonicals in their Bible, whereas Catholics and Orthodox do (and Orthodox have even more of them than Catholics).

At the end of the day the Bible isn't the end-all or be-all of Christianity, but is the received collection of Sacred and Holy Scripture (even if we disagree on a lot of the details) which guides us toward God and in our faith in Jesus. After all, the Christian confession is that God's True Word is ultimately a person, not a book or collection of books.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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drich0150

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So the real conservatives from my research are Catholics.
How do you define Conservatives?

I would like to know how they preserved the Bible?
There is a massive library in Vatican City (Under it) that contain thousands and thousands of the oldest texts.

We know many books from the Bible are missing.
How so? The bible was never one signal book till sometime in or around the 3th century and we have a 4th century bible.

And the most authentic Bible that exists is the Hebrew Bible.
The Hebrew bible? do you mean the Torah? Every "Christian" bible has with in it what could be considered a copy of the Torah.

I would like to know how had the early church preserved the Bible.
The first century church had the apostles and their letters, once they began to die off the individual churches prized and cared for these letters and copies of the gospel accounts. about the 3th century the individual church letters were compiled into one book.

Although I believe there are things in the Bible that God has revealed to Isa, peace be upon him, I do believe there are additions and mistakes.
what makes you believe this?
How can you say this for certain if you do not know of the origins of the bible? It seems you have closed your mind to the bible before you even knew anything of it.

I do not know about these additions. I would like to know more about them, or how has it happened.
so would i. Do you have an example of an "addition?"
 
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