Monolatry

[arunma]

arunma: If believing in him leads to your living a good life, and it fullfills you he is not demeaned, if he leads others to do so as well, it is a good thing and he is important. If believing in him causes good actions, then it will lead to a good afterlife (heaven if you so wish to call it) therefore he is not devalued because something came of a belief in him, something came in the worship of him.

To me he is a savior, not just Savior, I have my own path and I do not need that savior, that doesn't make him any less important or divine to those who do need him.

arunma: I was more or less curious because of the way you worded your last post That part in particular, thank you for clearing that up though.
I do have to say (even if it doesn't really relate) that I Don't believe Jesus was a historical figure, he exists, but in a spiritual sense (again, these are my personal beliefs and have nothing to do with the teachings of my faith.)

This is an interesting statement, because I notice that your premise is that the purpose of religion is to cause people to lead a good life. However, this belief is not shared in orthodox Christianity. To be sure, being a good person is important, and no person can call himself a Christian if he does not lead a good life. But living a good life is not the end goal of the Christian religion.

To be honest, I was a rather good person before I became a Christian (I became one at the age of 19). I studied hard in school, I obeyed my parents, I never stole anything, I never commited any premarital sexual activity, and I even gave money to homeless people on the street. By all accounts I've always been a "good person," both before and after becoming a Christian, so apparently I don't need Jesus in order to do these things.

For what, then, do I need Jesus? Jesus claims to be the Son of God. If this is true, then it is an objective fact. Almost no religion recognizes the concept of a God who exists only within the believer's imagination. God is a being who exists as an objective reality. God does not go away if I stop believing in him, anymore than the moon would go away if I stopped believing in it. According to the doctrines of Christianity, Jesus Christ is the only divine Son of God, and God raised him from the dead. If this is true, then it is true regardless whether or not anyone believes in it.

According to the orthodox doctrines of Christianity, God says that we are saved only by faith in his Son, and that anyone who fails to believe in the Son of God will perish in the unquenchable fire of hell. Thus Jesus claims to be the only Savior of men, to the exclusion of all other gods or saviors. Insodoing, God proclaims every non-Christian religion to be false. This too is an objective statement. It may be true or it may be false, but it surely cannot be true for me, and false for you.

The point is this: if the teachings of orthodox Christianity are false, then Christians are wasting our time. Our faith is placed in lies, and they will be of no use to us. But if these teachings are true, then everyone, both Christian and non-Christian, is accountable to Jesus Christ who requires us to worship him. There is no middle ground, no compromise that can be reached between Christianity and non-Christian religions. If your beliefs are correct, then you are not in need of a Savior. But if my beliefs are correct, then you most certainly are in need of a Savior, namely Jesus Christ.

Remember that individual beliefs don't define reality. I could believe all day that the earth is flat, and my faith won't make it true. At least one of our beliefs (or possibly both) is false. But we can't both be correct.

 

[Spiritualnekhtet]

Omnichaotic:
I understand where you're coming from.

arunma:
I never said that everything about Christianity was "right", I don't believe in hell, and just because you do does not make it exist. I believe there is one afterlife we go to, and to get there you have to be a "good" person, that does not involve having to worship the same gods I do. Your religion brings you contenment and happiness (at least I'm assuming it does, as far as I'm concerned if it doesn't there is something wrong). I believe that people can live a good life without religion, religion is meant to bring you closer to the divine, if it helps you be a better person then that's great, but that is not it's whole purpose.

How is a claim in a religious book objective fact? Gods don't go away if you stop believing in them, they are always around because they are always part of Netjer. I believe in all gods the worshipped and non-worshipped alike. You need Jesus to be fullfilled in life, you need him to be connected to the divine (god if you so wish to call it).

Your god is not a lie, nor is Jesus, but I do not believe that hell is real, nor that the bible is meant to be literally interpreted. If you are meaning the idea that we all need to be "saved" from "hell" and that Jesus is the only way, then yes one of us must be wrong and neither one of us will agree, but that your god and Jesus exist is something I know to be true.

In my opinion I believe that you need to follow the christian path, that is the way that you will connect to your god and the divine and that is a good thing. Worship is always a good thing.

 

[arunma]

I never said that everything about Christianity was "right", I don't believe in hell, and just because you do does not make it exist.

This I acknowledge. But if it turns out that I am correct, then your disbelief in hell doesn't cause it to stop existing.

I believe there is one afterlife we go to, and to get there you have to be a "good" person, that does not involve having to worship the same gods I do.

I'd like to inquire as to how you know this. Have you been to the afterlife? Or, perhaps, has a messenger or prophet of God (or perhaps God himself) told you this?

Your religion brings you contenment and happiness (at least I'm assuming it does, as far as I'm concerned if it doesn't there is something wrong). I believe that people can live a good life without religion, religion is meant to bring you closer to the divine, if it helps you be a better person then that's great, but that is not it's whole purpose.

We seem to be in agreement that the end goal of religion is not to cause people to behave well.

How is a claim in a religious book objective fact? Gods don't go away if you stop believing in them, they are always around because they are always part of Netjer. I believe in all gods the worshipped and non-worshipped alike.

My claim that the Bible is true certainly doesn't make it so. But my claim is objective. I am stating that a specific set of facts is true, and the truth of these facts is independent of your or my opinion. In other words: if all non-Christians are going to hell (as I believe they are), then your rejection of this belief won't stop it from happening.

You need Jesus to be fullfilled in life, you need him to be connected to the divine (god if you so wish to call it).

But I'm claiming that everyone needs Jesus to be fulfilled in life, whether or not they acknowledge it.

Your god is not a lie, nor is Jesus, but I do not believe that hell is real, nor that the bible is meant to be literally interpreted.

Then how do you explain the fact that Jesus specifically taught that hell is a real place?

If you are meaning the idea that we all need to be "saved" from "hell" and that Jesus is the only way, then yes one of us must be wrong and neither one of us will agree, but that your god and Jesus exist is something I know to be true.

It's interesting that you say this. Please elaborate, because I'd like to hear more about your thoughts on this. In particular, if Jesus is a real person, are you claiming that he did not teach that hell is a real place? If so, then how do you know this?

In my opinion I believe that you need to follow the christian path, that is the way that you will connect to your god and the divine and that is a good thing. Worship is always a good thing.

I also believe that I need to follow the Christian path. The difference between the two of us is that I believe you need to follow the Christian path as well. I believe that every path except the Christian path will lead to eternal hell, and that all people should cast aside their false religious beliefs and convert to Christianity.

 

[Spiritualnekhtet]

This I acknowledge. But if it turns out that I am correct, then your disbelief in hell doesn't cause it to stop existing.

Your point is? Your belief that it does exist will not make it so if what I believe is true.

I'd like to inquire as to how you know this. Have you been to the afterlife? Or, perhaps, has a messenger or prophet of God (or perhaps God himself) told you this?

I believe it because that is what my faith teaches. You believe there is only one (as in Heaven or hell) as well, I could ask the same questions of you.

My claim that the Bible is true certainly doesn't make it so. But my claim is objective. I am stating that a specific set of facts is true, and the truth of these facts is independent of your or my opinion. In other words: if all non-Christians are going to hell (as I believe they are), then your rejection of this belief won't stop it from happening.

Point being? How is it objective if it is based on a belief?

But I'm claiming that everyone needs Jesus to be fulfilled in life, whether or not they acknowledge it.

And you have kemetic parents (as in the gods that created your soul to explain it over-simply) whether or not you aknowledge them doesn't mean they don't exist.

Then how do you explain the fact that Jesus specifically taught that hell is a real place?

Because he didn't, because he was not a historical figure. He exists spiritually, not physically.

It's interesting that you say this. Please elaborate, because I'd like to hear more about your thoughts on this. In particular, if Jesus is a real person, are you claiming that he did not teach that hell is a real place? If so, then how do you know this?

I've never once said that I believe Jesus was ever human, like I said earlier, he wasn't a historical figure, he exists spiritually.

I also believe that I need to follow the Christian path. The difference between the two of us is that I believe you need to follow the Christian path as well. I believe that every path except the Christian path will lead to eternal hell, and that all people should cast aside their false religious beliefs and convert to Christianity.

And I believe that you should follow whatever path leads you to the divine. What you believe really has no bearing on me whatsoever outside of this conversation. I don't believe that any connection to the divine is false, and frankly I find it offensive to say that someone's connection is false.

 

[SingingWolf]

(Basically the belief that all gods are one, but manifest as different dieties)?

Going by this def. which isn't the one I am familiar with, but using it for now, this is basically what I believe about The Divine.