Monks and spiritual warfare: Why does God allow it?

[truthseeker32]

Hello everyone,
Recently I have read/ been reading these two books:

A Night in the Desert of the Holy Mountain: Discussion with a Hermit on the Jesus Prayer: Metropolitan of Nafpaktos Hierotheos Vlachos, Effie Mavromichali, Abbot of Gregoriou Monastery Archimandrite George: 9789607070319: Amazon.com: Books

Amazon.com: Saint Silouan, the Athonite (9780881411959): Archimandrite Sophrony: Books

While I have found certain portions edifying, I have struggled to get through these books because I have a really hard time believing a lot of the stories recounted, and I feel like the Christianity these monks follow is a perversion of Christianity. These men leave the world to dedicate themselves to prayer, and yet they tell stories about how some of them go mad, or are driven to suicide by the demons that torment them. Why would God allow such a thing?

St. Silouan apparently spoke of how for years he suffered the torments of Hell, and sat all night on a backless stool rather than laying down and sleeping. Given a few things he later said, it seems that St. Silouan eventually criticized this view, claiming that one should neither see his or herself as a saint or see his or herself as destined for Hell, since this shows a lack of faith in Christ's grace.

When I read these accounts I wonder how on earth someone can follow such a Christianity. This doesn't sound like Christ's message of hope, love, and transformation. How can we believe that Christ's message is "follow me and be tormented by the thought that you are going to Hell regardless of your dedication"?

 

[Lukaris]

Personally, I use my Bible & prayer book & experiential faith of the Divine Liturgy as my primary modes for living faith. I once started to read "the Ladder of Divine Ascent" by St. John Climacus & in chapter 1, he was asked if what he wa conveying was for laypersons & St. John C. basically told the inquirer what St. Paul tells us in Romans 13: 8-11. At that point, I returned "The Ladder.." to our church library.

 

[Boris89]

Only life itself and contacts with experienced priests will help you go past this problem.

A serbian theologian Radovan Bigovich once said in an interview that there are different levels of faith. One of them is faith out of fear, you believe because you expect a punishment or you're afraid of going to hell. The second one: "faith of the mercenary", where one expects a reward from God for his faith in Him. The third one is faith out of love for God where one does not expect rewards or has fears, he believes out of pure love for Christ. Many people are stuck on the first two levels, few reach the third.

 

[ArmyMatt]

well, not everyone is called to be monastic, and if you are called, you will be tested. it is in our tests that we become edified. for most of us, that testing will come with the world. unless you have a desire to be monastic truth, it's best probably to stick with your local services. God, after all, put you there and not Mt Athos for a reason

 

[jckstraw72]

Christ calls us to be perfect as the Father is perfect -- this absolutely necessitates humility. St. Silouan and the others you have been reading about are willing to do anything to find and keep humility. they're serious. most of us are just fooling around.

 

[Kristos]

Like Def Leppard - I out fooled myself

 

[Protoevangel]

Like Def Leppard - I out fooled myself

Lol

Classic misheard lyrics! KissThisGuy.com - The Archive of Misheard Song Lyrics

 

[truthseeker32]

I guess I just don't understand why these monastics who sacrifice so much for God seem to suffer more, to the point of madness or grave sin. You would expect that they would experience more peace and divine light as a result of their dedication.

St. Ephrem of Syria, St. Isaac of Syria, and St. Silouan eventually seem to have achieved such peace and light, but some monks seem to live forever in fear (the bad kind) and it bothers me that they are still looked to as an example of how one should experience faith.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I guess I just don't understand why these monastics who sacrifice so much for God seem to suffer more, to the point of madness or grave sin. You would expect that they would experience more peace and divine light as a result of their dedication.

St. Ephrem of Syria, St. Isaac of Syria, and St. Silouan eventually seem to have achieved such peace and light, but some monks seem to live forever in fear (the bad kind) and it bothers me that they are still looked to as an example of how one should experience faith.

well, St John Chrysostom says that kind of fear will save many, and God uses what He has. so if that kind of fear will get you into His Kingdom, then so be it.

 

[truthseeker32]

well, St John Chrysostom says that kind of fear will save many, and God uses what He has. so if that kind of fear will get you into His Kingdom, then so be it.

I just can't see why God would want to condone such scrupulosity and fear. It makes much more sense that God would want us to worship him with good intentions, and thus bad intentions should be discouraged. Mental illness is bad, even if it gets you into heaven just as abortion is bad even if the lost infant goes to heaven.

 

[katherine2001]

We are each different. God always deals with each of us as individuals. One size does not fit all. Do you have children? If so, have you noticed that the same methods don't work with all of your kids? You have to find which methods work best with each child. God works with what He has to work with.

As to why God allows spiritual warfare, it is what helps us to grow in the faith. If we never had challenges, we would be content to stay where we are. It is not just monks who suffer from spiritual warfare. Every Christian is in spiritual warfare every day of their life.

 

[E.C.]

Few, if any, tests of faith are easy.

Or like one of my friends said not too long ago, "Sometimes the most faithful have something to be faithful for".

 

[inconsequential]

We are the Church militant. Monastics are our Special Forces. They see more and have to bear more because they fight at a level we don't understand. They signed up for it.

 

[ma2000]

Jonah 3

1 Now the word of the Lord came to Jonah the second time, saying, 2 “Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and preach to it the message that I tell you.” 3 So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh, according to the word of the Lord. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, a three-day journey[a] in extent. 4 And Jonah began to enter the city on the first day’s walk. Then he cried out and said, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”

5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest to the least of them. 6 Then word came to the king of Nineveh; and he arose from his throne and laid aside his robe, covered himself with sackcloth and sat in ashes. 7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published throughout Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying,

Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water. 8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. 9 Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish?

10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I just can't see why God would want to condone such scrupulosity and fear. It makes much more sense that God would want us to worship him with good intentions, and thus bad intentions should be discouraged. Mental illness is bad, even if it gets you into heaven just as abortion is bad even if the lost infant goes to heaven.

well, He does want us to worship Him with good intentions, but only He can see how the good intentions will play out. maybe if God keeps blessing some guy and that guy becomes proud because he is always blessed. since none of us can see either the mind of God perfectly, or the heart of other men perfectly, we just have to trust that He knows what He is doing and focus on our own walk with Him.