mindlight

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So to be a Prophet you must make predictions and perform miracles? Nostradamus prophesied and modern day magicians are able to levitate and walk on water. I don't see how this proves anything.

In any case it's a requirement of the Torah, so here are 5 miracles of the Prophet pbuh


None but miracle number 5 can be verified.

Predictions made by the Prophet pbuh and the Qur'an: Watch from 6 mins onwards..


Yes by definition prophets predict things and supernatural things often happen to verify their claims and to the glory of the One they testify to.

Lets look at some of those miracles you quote from in the youtube - one wins a battle with sand in the desert by blinding the enemy (so that Mohammeds people could kill their blind enemies), one splits the moon and was in effect a stunt on demand (something Jesus expressly refused to do when tempted by the devil or taunted by people of little faith), the one you think can be verified is a book that contradicts all the prophets and religious texts that came before it.

Dt 18:15,18,22
"15 The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him.....18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites,......22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed"

Was Mohammed a Jew? - this prophecy is fulfilled in Jesus the Messiah who was a Jew and did make predictions like that of the fall of Jerusalem that came true.
 
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mindlight

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What utter junk. I have just proved to you in a previous thread Mohammad by Quran stand was a false prophet. Now you claim he split the moon in half. what a joke.
So offer proof.... Idle claims are meaningless with out proof.
Astrology was a big thing in the time of Mohammad, it was the compass for many people and pagan worshipers, offer one piece of evidence showing this happened.

Beside Sahih Bukhari vol 9 book 93 # 397 - say Mohammad preformed no miracles.
In addition the Quran supports this see Surah 3;138, 17:90-95, 25:7-8, 15:6-8, 13:07

so if we are to believe the Quran that it is free from error and contradictions well this once again proves the Quran is a fabricated document as Muslim contradict its teaching and do not follow it teachings.

If he did appear to split the moon in two it was an astrological stunt , if he did not then someone is lying. Either way not good testimony to his veracity as a prophet.
 
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Niblo

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There are a large number of Muslims who believe that wholeheartedly. Listening to the Prime minister after the latest Islamist outrage in London one might be forgiven for thinking it was obvious that Islam was a religion of peace. But facts are it is not and the man who sacrificed his life yesterday in order to mow down school girls and policemen was also a Muslim. Mohammed led wars and his kingdom spread by conquest and many Muslims believe that they should follow his example rather than the Islam - Lite version of himself that many Muslim minorities hide behind.

I asked if it is it still too difficult for you to concede that Islam condemns, absolutely, the aggressive behaviours that you have described in other posts. Clearly it is. One cannot debate with someone who hasn't the integrity to admit that he is wrong.

As for yesterday; that Muslim will answer for his actions, come the Day; and will have to admit - as you will not - that Islam condemns them, absolutely.
 
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Niblo

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But the words given to Moses contradict the testimony of the Koran. Mohammed did not stand on the shoulders of such giants he contradicted their teachings and changed their stories.

Moses (AS) is a prophet of Islam. The revelations given to him by his Lord are confirmed by the Qur'an; and the distorted accounts contained in the Bible corrected.
 
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mindlight

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I asked if it is it still too difficult for you to concede that Islam condemns, absolutely, the aggressive behaviours that you have described in other posts. Clearly it is. One cannot debate with someone who hasn't the integrity to admit that he is wrong.

As for yesterday; that Muslim will answer for his actions, come the Day; and will have to admit - as you will not - that Islam condemns them, absolutely.

It is extremely dishonest to deny the prevalence of violence in the Muslim world against Christians and other Muslims. I regularly speak with refugee Muslims from Iraq and Afghanistan and Syria and the claim that Islam is the religion of peace absolutely contradicts their experience and stories. Also the example of your own prophet , as you have repeatedly ignored, is one of violence and war. The Quran does not refute this violence at the heart of your religion it affirms it.
 
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Niblo

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. The Quran does not refute this violence at the heart of your religion it affirms it.

Some time ago I addressed you thus:

Returning to your original question: ‘On what grounds can wars be justified in Islam?’:

I would like you to consider the following. They are not mere rules; they are the Laws of Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) – and any Muslim who breaks them, or who – being a commander – permits others to break them, will be held accountable on the Day of Judgement:

It is forbidden to start – or to participate in – a war of aggression.

It is forbidden to harm, in any way, non-combatants; women; children; the old; the sick; and those enemy combatants who no longer wish to fight, or who are prisoners of war.

It is forbidden to destroy property; homes; churches; synagogues; mosques; and so on.

It is forbidden to destroy crops or livestock, or to poison wells.

Please allow these Laws to soak into you; and then read your latest post to me. Ask yourself, which of the various actions you describe accord with these Laws?

Ask yourself: What would the world be like if these Laws were written into the Constitution of every nation state; and into the Standing Orders of every soldier, marine, airman (or woman) and matelot; and not just written down, but complied with….from this very day, and for all time?

Ask yourself: What would the world be like if every person – every person, mind you – refused to act aggressively towards another; refused to harm another in any way whatsoever; refused to steal or destroy the property of another?

Meditate on each of these questions for as long as you need to; and when you are done, please come back and give me your answers.

End of quote.

One last time.....Is it really too much for you to concede that Islam condemns the violent crimes you describe...crimes that the overwhelming majority of the world's 1.6 billion Muslims are innocent of?
 
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DWA2DAY

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One last time.....Is it really too much for you to concede that Islam condemns the violent crimes you describe...crimes that the overwhelming majority of the world's 1.6 billion Muslims are innocent of?

The Quran contains at least 40 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Backed uop by at least 30 Hadiths. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by historical context contained in the surrounding text (although many Muslims choose to think of them that way). They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subject to interpretation as anything else in the Quran.

The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God. Most contemporary Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Their apologists cater to these preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy, along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran, have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.

Other than the fact that Muslims haven't killed every non-Muslim under their domain, there is very little else that they can point to as proof that theirs is a peaceful, tolerant religion. Where Islam is dominant (as in the Middle East and Pakistan) religious minorities suffer brutal persecution with little resistance. Where Islam is in the minority (as in Thailand, the Philippines and Europe) there is the threat of violence if Muslim demands are not met. Either situation seems to provide a justification for religious terrorism, which is persistent and endemic to Islamic fundamentalism.

The reasons are obvious and begin with the Quran. Few verses of Islam's most sacred text can be construed to fit the contemporary virtues of religious tolerance and universal brotherhood. Those that do are earlier "Meccan" verses which are obviously abrogated by later ones. The example of Muhammad is that Islam is a religion of peace when Muslims do not have the power and numbers on their side. Once they do, things change.

Many Muslims are peaceful and do not want to believe what the Quran really says. They prefer a more narrow interpretation that is closer to the Judeo-Christian ethic. Some just ignore harsher passages. Others reach for "textual context" across different suras to subjectively mitigate these verses with others so that the message fits their personal moral preference. Although the Quran itself claims to be clear and complete, these apologists speak of the "risks" of trying to interpret verses without their "assistance."

The violent verses of the Quran have played a key role in very real massacre and genocide. This includes the brutal slaughter of tens of millions of Hindus for five centuries beginning around 1000 AD with Mahmud of Ghazni's bloody conquest. Both he and the later Tamerlane (Islam's Genghis Khan) slaughtered an untold number merely for defending their temples from destruction. Buddhism was very nearly wiped off the Indian subcontinent. Judaism and Christianity met the same fate (albeit more slowly) in areas conquered by Muslim armies, including the Middle East, North Africa and parts of Europe, including today's Turkey. Zoroastrianism, the ancient religion of a proud Persian people is despised by Muslims and barely survives in modern Iran.

Violence is so ingrained in Islam that it has never really stopped being at war, either with other religions or with itself.

Muhammad was a military leader, laying siege to towns, massacring the men, raping their women, enslaving their children, and taking the property of others as his own. On several occasions he rejected offers of surrender from the besieged inhabitants and even butchered captives. He inspired his followers to battle when they did not feel it was right to fight, promising them, slaves and booty if they did and threatening them with Hell if they did not. Muhammad allowed his men to rape traumatized women captured in battle, usually on the very day their husbands and family members were slaughtered.

It is important to emphasize that, for the most part, Muslim armies waged aggressive campaigns, and the religion's most dramatic military conquests were made by the actual companions of Muhammad in the decades following his death.

The early Islamic principle of warfare was that the civilian population of a town was to be destroyed (ie. men executed, women and children taken as slaves) if they defended themselves and resisted Islamic domination. Although modern apologists often claim that Muslims are only supposed to "attack in self-defense", this oxymoron is flatly contradicted by the accounts of Islamic historians and others that go back to the time of Muhammad.

Some modern-day scholars are more candid than others. One of the most respected Sunni theologians is al-Qaradawi, who justifies terror attacks against Western targets by noting that there is no such thing as a civilian population in a time of war:

"It has been determined by Islamic law that the blood and property of people of Dar al-Harb [ie. non-Muslim people who resist Islamic conquest] is not protected... In modern war, all of society, with all its classes and ethnic groups, is mobilized to participate in the war, to aid its continuation, and to provide it with the material and human fuel required for it to assure the victory of the state fighting its enemies. Every citizen in society must take upon himself a role in the effort to provide for the battle. The entire domestic front, including professionals, laborers, and industrialists, stands behind the fighting army, even if it does not bear arms."

Consider the example of the Qurayza Jews, who were completely obliterated only five years after Muhammad arrived in Medina. Their leader opted to stay neutral when their town was besieged by a Meccan army that was sent to take revenge for Muhammad's deadly caravan raids. The tribe killed no one from either side and even surrendered peacefully to Muhammad after the Meccans had been turned back. Yet the prophet of Islam had every male member of the Qurayza beheaded, and every woman and child enslaved, even raping one of the captives himself (what Muslim apologists might refer to as "same day marriage").

One of Islam's most revered modern scholars, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, openly sanctions offensive Jihad: "In the Jihad which you are seeking, you look for the enemy and invade him. This type of Jihad takes place only when the Islamic state is invading other [countries] in order to spread the word of Islam and to remove obstacles standing in its way." Elsewhere, he notes:"Islam has the right to take the initiative…this is God’s religion and it is for the whole world. It has the right to destroy all obstacles in the form of institutions and traditions … it attacks institutions and traditions to release human beings from their poisonous influences, which distort human nature and curtail human freedom. Those who say that Islamic Jihad was merely for the defense of the 'homeland of Islam' diminish the greatness of the Islamic way of life."

The widely respected Dictionary of Islam defines Jihad as "A religious war with those who are unbelievers in the mission of Muhammad. It is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Quran and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined specially for the purpose of advancing Islam and of repelling evil from Muslims…[Quoting from the Hanafi school, Hedaya, 2:140, 141.], "The destruction of the sword is incurred by infidels, although they be not the first aggressors, as appears from various passages in the traditions which are generally received to this effect."

Dr. Salah al-Sawy, the chief member of the Assembly of Muslim Jurists in America, stated in 2009 that "the Islamic community does not possess the strength to engage in offensive jihad at this time," tacitly affirming the legitimacy of violence for the cause of Islamic rule - bound only by the capacity for success. (source)

The strangest and most untrue thing that can be said about Islam is that it is a religion of peace. If every standard by which the West is judged and condemned (slavery, imperialism, intolerance, misogyny, sexual repression, warfare...) were applied equally to Islam, the verdict would be devastating. Islam never gives up what it conquers, be it religion, culture, language or life. Neither does it make apologies or any real effort at moral progress. It is the least open to dialogue and the most self-absorbed. It is convinced of its own perfection, yet brutally shuns self-examination and represses criticism.

This is what makes the Quran's verses of violence so dangerous. They are given the weight of divine command. While Muslim terrorists take them literally, and understand that Islam is incomplete without Jihad, moderates offer little to contradict them - outside of personal opinion. Indeed, what do they have? Speaking of peace and love may win over the ignorant, but when every twelfth verse of Islam's holiest book either speaks to Allah's hatred for non-Muslims or calls for their death, forced conversion, or subjugation, it's little wonder that sympathy for terrorism runs as deeply as it does in the broader community - even if most Muslims prefer not to interpret their personal viewpoint of Islam in this way.

Although scholars like Ibn Khaldun, one of Islam's most respected philosophers, understood that "the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and (the obligation to) convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force", many other Muslims are either unaware or wilfully ignorant of the Quran's near absence of verses that preach universal non-violence. Their understanding of Islam comes from what they are taught by others. Believers in the West are often led to think that their religion is like Christianity - preaching the New Testament virtues of peace, love, and tolerance. They are somewhat surprised and embarrassed to find that the Quran and the bloody history of Islam's genesis say otherwise.

The most prestigious Islamic university in the world today is Cairo's al-Azhar. While the university is very quick to condemn secular Muslims who critique the religion, it has never condemned ISIS as a group of infidels despite horrific carnage in the name of Allah. When asked why, the university's Grand Imam, Ahmed al-Tayeb explained: " Al Azhar cannot accuse any [Muslim] of being a kafir [infidel], as long as he believes in Allah and the Last Day—even if he commits every atrocity."

For their part, Western liberals would do well not to sacrifice critical thinking to the god of political correctness, or look for reasons to bring other religion down to the level of Islam merely to avoid the existential truth that this it is both different and dangerous.

There are just too many Muslims who take the Quran literally... and too many others who couldn't care less about the violence done in the name of Islam.

Referenced from The Quran's Verses of Violence
 
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