Mohammed and "Gabriel?"

[Brian45]

Originally posted by s0uljah


If you are going to use a Catholic source, you might want to look up in the Cathechism where it says that they are the same God.

I posted in here about this topic, and nobody could give me any evidence of this being wrong, except for some half-baked conspiracy sites claiming Allah is a moon-god.  You know, the type that claim the Pope is the Anti-Christ and that the Church is the "harlot of Bablyon"

 

souljah ,  could you please give me a link  to where it says that they are the same god .  (  I had problems finding it  )  thanks .

 

 

 

[Zico]

Brian45,, here you go http://www.answering-christianity.com/allah4.htm

it's funny also..

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by Brian45


souljah ,  could you please give me a link  to where it says that they are the same god .  (  I had problems finding it  )  thanks .

 

 

http://www.kofc.org/faith/catechism/getsection.cfm?partnum=1&SecNum=2&ChapNum=3&articlenum=9&ParSecNum=3&subSecNum=3&headernum=4&ParNum=841&ParType=a

"841 <I>The Church's relationship with the Muslims.</I> "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
*wonders if souljah thinks he knows more about Islam then a muslim*

Isn't this case closed already?

/wonders if Louis is capable of understanding s0uljah's words

Don't ban me or anything please...

 

[LouisBooth]

HUH? ban you for what? LOL. for poking fun? I just saw this case was closed when a muslim stated the case and you were like, no you're wrong...and its his relgion, not yours..I thought it was funny.

 

[Brian45]

Originally posted by s0uljah


http://www.kofc.org/faith/catechism/getsection.cfm?partnum=1&amp;SecNum=2&amp;ChapNum=3&amp;articlenum=9&amp;ParSecNum=3&amp;subSecNum=3&amp;headernum=4&amp;ParNum=841&amp;ParType=a

"841 <I>The Church's relationship with the Muslims.</I> "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Souljah , thanks for the link .

Unfortunatly there's no mention of jesus christ as being part of Gods plan for salvation&nbsp; ,&nbsp; only those who profess to hold the faith of abraham .

souljah ,&nbsp; please believe me , the central focal point of Gods plan for salvation is and was Jesus christ , THE SACRIFICAL LAMB&nbsp; .

Man I just can't believe that their saying this stuff , it blows me away .

Souljah ,&nbsp; please re read the new testiment again so that you may come back to the truth .

&nbsp;

 

[Brian45]

Originally posted by Zico
Brian45,, here you go http://www.answering-christianity.com/allah4.htm

it's funny also..

Zico , I tried your link but ads for porno were comming up ,&nbsp; it may be the site or my son has been at it again .

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by Brian45


Souljah , thanks for the link .

Unfortunatly there's no mention of jesus christ as being part of Gods plan for salvation&nbsp; ,&nbsp; only those who profess to hold the faith of abraham .

souljah ,&nbsp; please believe me , the central focal point of Gods plan for salvation is and was Jesus christ , THE SACRIFICAL LAMB&nbsp; .

Man I just can't believe that their saying this stuff , it blows me away .

Souljah ,&nbsp; please re read the new testiment again so that you may come back to the truth .

&nbsp;

No, no, no...you totally misunderstand.&nbsp; Read the rest of the Catechism man...they are in no way saying that Jesus isn't the Lamb, etc.

I showed you the excerpt that says "if the Muslims worship the God of their ancestor, Abraham, as they say they do, then we worship the same God"

Get it?&nbsp; The fact that they don't recognize Jesus as the Lamb, may very well condemn them to Hell.&nbsp; But, since they worship the Father, its possible He will let them into Heaven.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
HUH? ban you for what? LOL. for poking fun? I just saw this case was closed when a muslim stated the case and you were like, no you're wrong...and its his relgion, not yours..I thought it was funny.

I'm not saying that a Muslim is wrong about his religion, I am saying the Muslim is making the same mistake reading my words as you are....perhaps its just too hard for&nbsp;me to get across on a forum.

 

[Brian45]

Originally posted by s0uljah


No, no, no...you totally misunderstand.&nbsp; Read the rest of the Catechism man...they are in no way saying that Jesus isn't the Lamb, etc.

I showed you the excerpt that says "if the Muslims worship the God of their ancestor, Abraham, as they say they do, then we worship the same God"

Get it?&nbsp; The fact that they don't recognize Jesus as the Lamb, may very well condemn them to Hell.&nbsp; But, since they worship the Father, its possible He will let them into Heaven.

souljah , yes I get it ,&nbsp; but what about Allah , the God that mohammad spoke to , who do you think that was&nbsp; ?&nbsp;&nbsp;

Or do you believe as I do , that mohammad was eating magic mushrooms ?

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[NumberOneSon]

"841 <I>The Church's relationship with the Muslims.</I> "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."...

...Get it? The fact that they don't recognize Jesus as the Lamb, may very well condemn them to Hell. But, since they worship the Father, its possible He will let them into Heaven.

Even if it were true that Muslims believe in the same God as Abraham (which their doctrines prove that they don't) they would STILL only be in the same position as the Jews, and the Jews reject that Jesus is the Son of God. In Jesus' day, if a Jew said he believed in the Father and the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but rejected Jesus, then where did it leave him? You guessed it.

"Jesus said unto them, 'If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me'."

If a Jew believed in the Father, he would also believe in the Son; to reject the Son is to reject the Father. Muslims are in need of salvation as much as any other unbeliever. Their appeal to the God of Abraham offers them no protection.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[isshinwhat]

In Jesus' day, if a Jew said he believed in the Father and the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but rejected Jesus, then where did it leave him? You guessed it.

The Catechism isn't talking about someone who has made an informed decision to reject Christ, but one who worships God the Father alone out of ignorance. I believe these people can, not will, gain entrance into Heaven through Christ alone and in His infinite Mercy. I pray that all may know Christ, while realizing that some may never know Him by name, but through His love as they feel Him guiding them as they worship God the Father of Abraham.

God Bless,

Neal

 

[zeeshan]

Even if it were true that Muslims believe in the same God as Abraham (which their doctrines prove that they don't)

We do believe in the same God as Abraham. Following are some (but not all) relevent verses from the Holy Quran:

'They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To
salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True,
and he joined not gods with God." ' (2:135)

'Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and
bowed his will to God's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with God.' (3:67)

'Say: "God speaketh the Truth: follow the religion of Abraham, the sane
in faith; he was not of the Pagans." ' (3:95)

Zeeshan.

 

[Brian45]

Originally posted by zeeshan


We do believe in the same God as Abraham. Following are some (but not all) relevent verses from the Holy Quran:

'They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To
salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True,
and he joined not gods with God." ' (2:135)

'Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and
bowed his will to God's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with God.' (3:67)

'Say: "God speaketh the Truth: follow the religion of Abraham, the sane
in faith; he was not of the Pagans." ' (3:95)

Zeeshan.

&nbsp;

Then who was the God that spoke through the prophet mohammed ?

Was it the God of abraham ?

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by Acts6:5


Even if it were true that Muslims believe in the same God as Abraham (which their doctrines prove that they don't) they would STILL only be in the same position as the Jews, and the Jews reject that Jesus is the Son of God. In Jesus' day, if a Jew said he believed in the Father and the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but rejected Jesus, then where did it leave him? You guessed it.

"Jesus said unto them, 'If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me'."

If a Jew believed in the Father, he would also believe in the Son; to reject the Son is to reject the Father. Muslims are in need of salvation as much as any other unbeliever. Their appeal to the God of Abraham offers them no protection.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

You are wrong about their doctrine.&nbsp; They profess to follow the faith of Abraham.

Anyway, of course if they reject Christ, then they have a serious problem, but that isn't the point.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by Brian45


souljah , yes I get it ,&nbsp; but what about Allah , the God that mohammad spoke to , who do you think that was&nbsp; ?&nbsp;&nbsp;

Or do you believe as I do , that mohammad was eating magic mushrooms ?&nbsp;

&nbsp;

Personally I think it was Satan, disguised as an angel of light, as the Bible says.&nbsp; By tricking people to think Christ isn't divine, and their salvation, he hopes to doom them to Hell, to spite God.

 

[Zico]

Originally posted by bouncer


If this man is totally unrepentent, he is in danger of eternal damnation.

By the way, what is the muslim concept of salvation?

&nbsp;

Sorry bouncer i kept you waiting to hear the answer for this one, i was ill ( ulcer + colon pains ) not cool, but again, thank God on every state.

&nbsp;

ok,, here is our concept on salvation, beside the basic 5 pillars of islam ( the 2 testiments of faith, daily&nbsp;prayers, giving alms,fasting&nbsp;and hajj*only if you are able and can afford it* ) beside these basics a muslim&nbsp;is not truely&nbsp;a muslim untill he believes in&nbsp;the following:

in the&nbsp;One, Unique, Incomparable God; in the Angels created by Him; in the prophets through whom His revelations were brought to mankind; in the Day of Judgement and individual accountability for actions; in God's complete authority over human destiny and in life after death. In&nbsp;the chain of prophets starting with Adam and including Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Job, Moses, Aaron, David, Solomon, Elias, Jonah, John the Baptist, and Jesus, peace be upon them.&nbsp;And in&nbsp;God's final message to man, a reconfirmation of the eternal message and a summing-up of all that has gone before, the Revelation to the Prophet Muhammad through Gabriel.

Believe in this and follow the legacy of God's purest men, do good like they did&nbsp;and there shall be no fear upon you nor you will be sad.

 

[Brian45]

Originally posted by s0uljah


Personally I think it was Satan, disguised as an angel of light, as the Bible says.&nbsp; By tricking people to think Christ isn't divine, and their salvation, he hopes to doom them to Hell, to spite God.

souljah , that was my point&nbsp; ,&nbsp; muslims believe the koran came from God , but as you stated above and I agree with you ,&nbsp; it was satan .

Therefor christians and muslims cannot be worshiping the same God .

This time ,&nbsp; do you get it&nbsp; ?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

 

[Brian45]

Sorry to hear that you were ill zico , to much booze and hot chillies uh ?

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by Brian45


souljah , that was my point&nbsp; ,&nbsp; muslims believe the koran came from God , but as you stated above and I agree with you ,&nbsp; it was satan .

Therefor christians and muslims cannot be worshiping the same God .

This time ,&nbsp; do you get it&nbsp; ?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

Arghhh...your making my head hurt with frustration.

If they claim to worship the God of Abraham, then they claim to worship Yahweh, whom we know as simply, God.&nbsp; We also know the Trinity is God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, which is actually just God.

So, they are not worshipping Jesus, but they are worshipping God, but its the same thing.&nbsp; However, since Jesus is the mediator and salvation to God, they are deceived by not accepting that salvation.

Only God knows how they will be judged.&nbsp; If we are right about the Koran, then they are simply decieved.&nbsp; How do you think our loving Lord would judge them, if it wasn't their fault?

Consider...

Acts 17:22-27

Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, "Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. <B>Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you:</B> God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, so that they should seek the