Mohammad in the bible

Robban · Mar 20, 2017

dougangel said:
Mosaic Covenant (Deuteronomy 11; et al.). The Mosaic Covenant was a conditional covenant that either brought God's direct blessing for obedience or God's direct cursing for disobedience upon the nation of Israel. Part of the Mosaic Covenant was the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20) and the rest of the Law, which contained over 600 commands—roughly 300 positive and 300 negative. The history books of the Old Testament (Joshua–Esther) detail how Israel succeeded at obeying the Law or how Israel failed miserably at obeying the Law. Deuteronomy 11:26-28 details the blessing/cursing motif.

Galatians 3

5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Mosaic law is a conditional law. It has blessings and curses.

It’s a law that has a period of use. Jeramiah 33 Hebrews 8

Mosaic law is a priestly law it requires a High Priest, Priests and sacrifice for the atonement of sins or it just doesn’t work.

Mosaic law is a National administrated law and requires Israel to carry out these administrations.

If you fail in one thing of the law your under the curses if your trying to keep it.

Mosaic law was to keep Israel holy as there inspired prophets point to Christ the messiah and savior and the genealogy brought forward Christ.

Curses for Disobedience
duet 28
15 However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:

16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country.

17 Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed.

18 The fruit of your womb will be cursed, and the crops of your land, and the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.

19 You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out.

20 The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.[a] 21 The Lord will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. 23 The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron. 24 The Lord will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come down from the skies until you are destroyed.

25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth. 26 Your carcasses will be food for all the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away. 27 The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind person in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.

30 You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and rape her. You will build a house, but you will not live in it. You will plant a vineyard, but you will not even begin to enjoy its fruit. 31 Your ox will be slaughtered before your eyes, but you will eat none of it. Your donkey will be forcibly taken from you and will not be returned. Your sheep will be given to your enemies, and no one will rescue them. 32 Your sons and daughters will be given to another nation, and you will wear out your eyes watching for them day after day, powerless to lift a hand. 33 A people that you do not know will eat what your land and labor produce, and you will have nothing but cruel oppression all your days. 34 The sights you see will drive you mad. 35 The Lord will afflict your knees and legs with painful boils that cannot be cured, spreading from the soles of your feet to the top of your head.

36 The Lord will drive you and the king you set over you to a nation unknown to you or your ancestors. There you will worship other gods, gods of wood and stone. 37 You will become a thing of horror, a byword and an object of ridicule among all the peoples where the Lord will drive you.

38 You will sow much seed in the field but you will harvest little, because locusts will devour it. 39 You will plant vineyards and cultivate them but you will not drink the wine or gather the grapes, because worms will eat them. 40 You will have olive trees throughout your country but you will not use the oil, because the olives will drop off. 41 You will have sons and daughters but you will not keep them, because they will go into captivity. 42 Swarms of locusts will take over all your trees and the crops of your land.

43 The foreigners who reside among you will rise above you higher and higher, but you will sink lower and lower. 44 They will lend to you, but you will not lend to them. They will be the head, but you will be the tail.

45 All these curses will come on you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the Lord your God and observe the commands and decrees he gave you. 46 They will be a sign and a wonder to you and your descendants forever. 47 Because you did not serve the Lord your God joyfully and gladly in the time of prosperity, 48 therefore in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and dire poverty, you will serve the enemies the Lord sends against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you.

49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a fierce-looking nation without respect for the old or pity for the young. 51 They will devour the young of your livestock and the crops of your land until you are destroyed. They will leave you no grain, new wine or olive oil, nor any calves of your herds or lambs of your flocks until you are ruined. 52 They will lay siege to all the cities throughout your land until the high fortified walls in which you trust fall down. They will besiege all the cities throughout the land the Lord your God is giving you.

53 Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you. 54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you—so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot—will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities.

58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name—the Lord your God— 59 the Lord will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses. 60 He will bring on you all the diseases of Egypt that you dreaded, and they will cling to you. 61 The Lord will also bring on you every kind of sickness and disaster not recorded in this Book of the Law, until you are destroyed. 62 You who were as numerous as the stars in the sky will be left but few in number, because you did not obey the Lord your God. 63 Just as it pleased the Lord to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess.

64 Then the Lord will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. There you will worship other gods—gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your ancestors have known. 65 Among those nations you will find no repose, no resting place for the sole of your foot. There the Lord will give you an anxious mind, eyes weary with longing, and a despairing heart. 66 You will live in constant suspense, filled with dread both night and day, never sure of your life. 67 In the morning you will say, “If only it were evening!” and in the evening, “If only it were morning!”—because of the terror that will fill your hearts and the sights that your eyes will see. 68 The Lord will send you back in ships to Egypt on a journey I said you should never make again. There you will offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.

You may have noticed this has happened Israel a few times in it's history. Israel and the national temple went into desolation for along time and now there is a mosk on there holy temple site. So Go figure.

The law was holy and there was nothing wrong with it as Hebrews says. People just can't keep laws like that. Human nature just can't do it and that is one of the lessons of the Old testament law.

It's very dangerous to go into the law and take little bits out of it because you put yourself under the curse of the law.

God bless.

Deut 11:2,

And you shall know this day;
that (I speak) not with your Children;
who did not know and who did not see the chastisment of the Lord, your God,
His greatness, His Mighty hand, and His outstretched arm.

The generation that came out of Egypt had a greater responsibility,
because they saw with their eyes,
their future Children did not see or know.

v 19,
And you shall teach them to your sons to speak with them,
when you sit in your house and when you walk on the way and when you lie down and when you rise.

dougangel · Mar 20, 2017

Robban said:
Deut 11:2,

And you shall know this day;
that (I speak) not with your Children;
who did not know and who did not see the chastisment of the Lord, your God,
His greatness, His Mighty hand, and His outstretched arm.

The generation that came out of Egypt had a greater responsibility,
because they saw with their eyes,
their future Children did not see or know.

v 19,
And you shall teach them to your sons to speak with them,
when you sit in your house and when you walk on the way and when you lie down and when you rise.

A New Covenant Hebrews 8:
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 8 Jeremiah 31 and quite few more texts declare that the Old Covenant had a time. The chosen people had brought forth Christ the messiah who made a New covenant. The Levi Priest hood went a long time to the cross.

habibii zahra · Mar 20, 2017

dcalling said:
I am always fascinated that why Muslims (Bahai's excluded) claim Bible is corrupt/lost etc. I could understand why atheist scholars does that, but when Quran so clearly confirms Bible.....
Adding to Mediavel said, here are part of Quan that confirms Bible is good to use and good to clear doubts for Muhammad:
Quran 5:47 Let the people of the Injeel judge by what Allah has revealed therein....
Surah 10:94 So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.

And here is what Quran says about corruption among Christians, that they should not claim the trinity is Mary/Jesus/God:
sura 5:116And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.

that is why we tell you that we believe in the torah and the bible..not all of them is corrupted ...some things were changed but not all of them
the prophet who calls us to believe in the torah and the bible is not a true prophet??
the book which calls to believe in the torah and the bible is not a divine book??
all the truth is in the Quran try to understand it you will win

danny ski · Mar 20, 2017

dougangel said:
A New Covenant Hebrews 8:
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 8 Jeremiah 33 and quite few more texts declare that the Old Covenant had a time. The chosen people had brought forth Christ the messiah who made a New covenant. The Levi Priest hood went a long time to the cross.

You would be right, if you relied only on the Greek Testament. Unfortunately, we have the "Old Testament", too. And it says, the Torah is an everlasting document and we're to follow its commands forever, for all generations. Same goes for the Levitical Priesthood. It's right there in the text. You just have to look it up. I guess the writer of the Pauline letters did not have a copy handy.

Muslim-UK · Mar 20, 2017

dcalling said:
We will use your quotes as context.

Agreed. Notice Jesus never said that God's word Torah is corrupt, which is also confirmed by Muhammad in the verses above.

How do you know when you don't have what he actually said? You have accounts about him written down by non eyewitnesses, which can only be reconstructed back in full to the 4th Century. We do read he was scathing of the Pharisees and Scribes, using terms like children of satan. Interestingly Christians love to quote the works of Saul the Pharisee.

dcalling said:
You have to put this in the context of that Muhammad is a real prophet of God, and that he knows about how the Gospel is formed 300 years before him, and if he mentioned some sect in Arabia that worship Jesus, Mary, God as the trinity, but didn't mention of anything about the Greek gospel writers, shows that the greek gospel writers are indeed inspired by God and their message is correct.

Just to be clear, The Qur'an rebukes the following Christians:
Trinitarians who say, Three
Catholics who worship Mary and Jesus
Others who worship Jesus as GOD.
It makes no mention of Christians worshipping Mary, Jesus and God as a Trinity, though there may have been a sect in Arabia that did as you mentioned.

What the Qur'an says about those who write Scripture, whether they be Greek, Hungarian, Indian or Roman is the following

2:79 "So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn."

dcalling said:
Search all the Quran verses and ahadith, even where Muhammad challenges the Christians and Jews, in no where did he ever say "Your text are corrupt", nor that "your text are composed of Greek philosopehers.

Why would he do that and get their backs up? He was inviting them to the truth in the best way possible, with revelation from Allah swt.

dcalling said:
You also have to remember Quran is supposed to be the end of all text, with effects cover all humanity and not only in Arabia, so if Quran didn't say something, you can add to it, espically when it held Torah/Gospel in such high regard, and that if you don't believe in the word of prior prophets, you are not a Muslim.

Correct in that no Muslim is a believer until he accepts Tawrat, Zaboor and Injeel were given to Moses, David and Jesus, peace be upon them all. What we also know from non Muslim sources, is the originals are lost, and only parts are found in the modern day Bible.

dcalling said:
I don't understand your answer. Quran did say the following.
Surah 10:94 So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.

It's two fold. Allah swt is telling Muhammad pbuh in the preceeding verses 10:90-93 about what happened to Moses pbuh and if Muhammad pbuh is in doubt, then ask those who read the previous Scriptures, Jews and Christians for confirmation regarding Moses pbuh. Also this would prove that Allah swt had indeed chosen Muhammad pbuh to be a Messenger, as they could confirm God speaks to Prophets. There's no Hadith showing he did, for he became sure he was the Prophet of Allah swt

dougangel · Mar 20, 2017

danny ski said:
You would be right, if you relied only on the Greek Testament. Unfortunately, we have the "Old Testament", too. And it says, the Torah is an everlasting document and we're to follow its commands forever, for all generations. Same goes for the Levitical Priesthood. It's right there in the text. You just have to look it up. I guess the writer of the Pauline letters did not have a copy handy.

Sorry the OT reference for Hebrews 8 is Jeremiah 31: 29-36 Rushing around a bit too much. I've changed it.
I don't see any differences from the Hebrew bible. It is saying the same thing. The prophet Jeremiah is saying there is going to be a change in covenant and it sounds very much like Christianity. Jeremiah was an amazing prophet.

danny ski · Mar 20, 2017

dougangel said:
Sorry the OT reference for Hebrews 8 is Jeremiah 31: 29-36 Rushing around a bit too much. I've changed it.
I don't see any differences from the Hebrew bible. It is saying the same thing. The prophet Jeremiah is saying there is going to be a change in covenant and it sounds very much like Christianity. Jeremiah was an amazing prophet.

We will ignore to whom Jeremiah was speaking and, instead, concentrate on the changes to the Covenant. What are they? How do the changes affect, say, niddah? Or the rules of Kashrut? Do the changes affect the Shabbat observance? The definition of work, perhaps? What changes in the Law the prophet foretold? Please be specific for this is important. The Almighty and Moses went to a lot of trouble to produce all the rules and regulations. David was so impressed that he called it perfect. Solomon and Hezekiah were huge fans, not to mention Jesus. So, we must be careful and meticulous before we make a jump to the New Covenant. Therefore, tell me which laws will be written on my heart? Feel free to use Jeremiah to answer.

dougangel · Mar 20, 2017

Out of respect I do try to mention OT scriptures and there are lots references in the NT to the OT. But getting me to try and explain the New covenant with the Old Covenant is like trying to get me to fix the latest motorcar with a model T car manual. It's just not logical.
niddah
I can't tell you how to pray. Jesus does teach about prayer I can go into that if you wanted. You probably need to talk a Messianic Jew about what they do.
I can go into the rest of the things that you bring up. But you can't shut me down if I use the new Testament.

God bless

danny ski · Mar 20, 2017

dougangel said:
Out of respect I do try to mention OT scriptures and there are lots references in the NT to the OT. But getting me to try and explain the New covenant with the Old Covenant is like trying to get me to fix the latest motorcar with a model T car manual. It's just not logical.
niddah
I can't tell you how to pray. Jesus does teach about prayer I can go into that if you wanted. You probably need to talk a Messianic Jew about what they do.
I can go into the rest of the things that you bring up. But you can't shut me down if I use the new Testament.

God bless

That is correct. You cannot describe the New Covenant, as understood by Christians, by using the Tanakh. The "Old Covenant" is perpetual, forever and for all generations. Therefore, it does not matter what the NT says about it. What matters is that the followers of Paul turned their backs on the Gd's given Law. I wonder what would Jesus think about it? After all, his followers believed he kept the Law perfectly.

dougangel · Mar 20, 2017

danny ski said:
That is correct. You cannot describe the New Covenant, as understood by Christians, by using the Tanakh. The "Old Covenant" is perpetual, forever and for all generations. Therefore, it does not matter what the NT says about it. What matters is that the followers of Paul turned their backs on the Gd's given Law. I wonder what would Jesus think about it? After all, his followers believed he kept the Law perfectly.

No I can't say what Jesus said with what Moses said. That is ridiculous. Although there are many parallels, references, prophecies about Jesus in the OT. I said that a couple times in different ways in this post.

Kashrut

The law distinguishes between clean and unclean foods. Lev.10 and 11; Deut.14.

Jesus states that there is no such distinction. Mk.7:14,15
14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”

17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

Notice Jesus goes into detail in private with the disciples. This has bearing on one of your comments.
Jesus is making a clear change of the Kashrut laws.

A "heavenly voice" told Peter the same thing. Acts 11: 6-9.
Paul says that all foods are clean. 1 Tim.4: 1-4.

God bless

danny ski · Mar 20, 2017

dougangel said:
No I can't say what Jesus said with what Moses said. That is ridiculous. Although there are many parallels, references, prophecies about Jesus in the OT. I said that a couple times in different ways in this post.

Kashrut

The law distinguishes between clean and unclean foods. Lev.10 and 11; Deut.14.

Jesus states that there is no such distinction. Mk.7:14,15
14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”

17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

Notice Jesus goes into detail in private with the disciples. This has bearing on one of your comments.
Jesus is making a clear change of the Kashrut laws.

A "heavenly voice" told Peter the same thing. Acts 11: 6-9.
Paul says that all foods are clean. 1 Tim.4: 1-4.

God bless

You have two choices, here.
1. He actually declared all foods clean. That means he broke the Law, committed a grave sin, he's a nobody.
2. He never said that. No pious Jew would ever say something so silly. Not then, not now.

dougangel · Mar 20, 2017

danny ski said:
You have two choices, here.
1. He actually declared all foods clean. That means he broke the Law, committed a grave sin, he's a nobody.
2. He never said that. No pious Jew would ever say something so silly. Not then, not now.

Why is that so silly. He's saying it's not physical things or things you eat that defile you spiritually but the moral things.
No there is another choice.
3. That he is King, High Priest and Messiah of a New covenant and has set of us free.

God bless

dcalling · Mar 20, 2017

habibii zahra said:
that is why we tell you that we believe in the torah and the bible..not all of them is corrupted ...some things were changed but not all of them
the prophet who calls us to believe in the torah and the bible is not a true prophet??
the book which calls to believe in the torah and the bible is not a divine book??
all the truth is in the Quran try to understand it you will win

Thank you, I will say (with all the verses in Quran that talks about Bible) the Torah and Gospel is trustworthy, and in the same way the Quran did confirm the Bible as according to itself. In the same sense, since Islam requires you to trust the word of all prophets, reading the Torah and Gospel should be very helpful to understanding the word of God in full.

dcalling · Mar 20, 2017

Muslim-UK said:
How do you know when you don't have what he actually said? You have accounts about him written down by non eyewitnesses, which can only be reconstructed back in full to the 4th Century. We do read he was scathing of the Pharisees and Scribes, using terms like children of satan. Interestingly Christians love to quote the works of Saul the Pharisee.

We do have what he actually said, Quran said God's word can't be corrupted, so the word of Jesus can't be lost, just as all other prophets. And the Gospel is formed 300 years before Muhammad, if you truely trust God and trust Quran, you have to affirm that the Gospel formed 300 years before Muhammad is the Gospel of God, or else God's word is corrupted for full 600 years?

Muslim-UK said:
Just to be clear, The Qur'an rebukes the following Christians:
Trinitarians who say, Three
Catholics who worship Mary and Jesus
Others who worship Jesus as GOD.
It makes no mention of Christians worshipping Mary, Jesus and God as a Trinity, though there may have been a sect in Arabia that did as you mentioned.

Quran did mention of Christians worshipping Mary,Jesus and God as Trinity, I am quoting it below. Note how God is very specific on each count of corruption.
sura 5:116 And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.

Muslim-UK said:
What the Qur'an says about those who write Scripture, whether they be Greek, Hungarian, Indian or Roman is the following

2:79 "

Muslim-UK said:
So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn."

Why would he do that and get their backs up? He was inviting them to the truth in the best way possible, with revelation from Allah swt.

If Muhammad or God is worried about get their backs up, then why did God/Muhammad specifically pick out the Mary/Jesus/God trinity worshipers? God does not fear been backed up, in fact the verses I quoted
5:116 shows any detail even just local is specified.

Muslim-UK said:
Correct in that no Muslim is a believer until he accepts Tawrat, Zaboor and Injeel were given to Moses, David and Jesus, peace be upon them all.

Muslim-UK said:
What we also know from non Muslim sources, is the originals are lost, and only parts are found in the modern day Bible.

If the original are lost, Muhammad will let the believers known, remember he is the prophet, he will know the originals are lost. He didn't mention any of that, he come to confirm the Torah/Gospel, if he think even a bit that the originals are lost, or the greeks are faking it, he will point out, Paul/Matt/John/Mark, 4 words and we will not have this conversion right now. If you affirm that Muhammad is the all powerful God's messenger, you will respect his words.

Look at all the verses in Quran about people of the book. yes they all warn them not to step out of their bounds, and yes a lot of them have stepped out their bounds, but they all know their bounds, by the word of God.

Muslim-UK said:
It's two fold. Allah swt is telling Muhammad pbuh in the preceeding verses 10:90-93 about what happened to Moses pbuh and if Muhammad pbuh is in doubt, then ask those who read the previous Scriptures, Jews and Christians for confirmation regarding Moses pbuh. Also this would prove that Allah swt had indeed chosen Muhammad pbuh to be a Messenger, as they could confirm God speaks to Prophets. There's no Hadith showing he did, for he became sure he was the Prophet of Allah swt

I will just quote scripture, and your explanation falls apart. Look at Quran (and not the commentaries), God is asking Muhammad if he doubts, ask those Jews/Christians, and he will know what he have is truth, which of course in your interpretation they have the corrupted books, and the prophet will be among the doubters?? I read the previous verses and it does not change this. Verse is very clear, no matter who want to twist it.
Surah 10:94 So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.

Again, I am not trying to argue with you here, the only reason why I am trying to list this is because the Lord our God told us,
"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. Love your neighbor as yourself' (Mark 12:30).
I really want you to read the scripture as it is, trust in it and be closer to God.

danny ski · Mar 20, 2017

dougangel said:
Why is that so silly. He's saying it's not physical things or things you eat that defile you spiritually but the moral things.
No there is another choice.
3. That he is King, High Priest and Messiah of a New covenant and has set of us free.

God bless

Set you free from what? Gd's commandments? Jeremiah said that under the New Covenant the Law will be written on people's hearts. How is that going to work, if you don't even know what the Law is? What Law is the Jeremiah talking about(when speaking to Jews)?

Muslim-UK · Mar 21, 2017

dcalling said:
We do have what he actually said, Quran said God's word can't be corrupted, so the word of Jesus can't be lost, just as all other prophets. And the Gospel is formed 300 years before Muhammad, if you truely trust God and trust Quran, you have to affirm that the Gospel formed 300 years before Muhammad is the Gospel of God, or else God's word is corrupted for full 600 years?

Again you misunderstand. Allah's words are preserved within the Qur'an. Not Gospel of Mark, Matthew, Luke, John, not Book of Acts, not Letters of Paul etc. We know this because none of them claim to be from God and your Scholars confirm originals all lost. You have copies of copies of copies of copies of copies at best.

dcalling said:
Quran did mention of Christians worshipping Mary,Jesus and God as Trinity, I am quoting it below. Note how God is very specific on each count of corruption.

dcalling said:
sura 5:116 And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.

The word Trinity or Three is not in that verse. The verse shows today, Christians numbering over One Billion pray to Mary and Jesus besides Allah swt. Here are some facts:

CATHOLICCONCERNS.COM

As a faithful Catholic, and later as a nun, I was devoted to Mary. The prayers and practices were so familiar. They were taught to me by sincere people. I prayed the rosary, including rosary novenas. I wore a Brown Scapular and a Miraculous Medal. (You can read about these things in the Glossary, which is Appendix C.) I visited shrines that honor Mary. I had beautiful statues of Mary. I attended special services where we prayed to Mary and recited a litany of titles honoring her. I read books about apparitions of Mary, and dreamed of visiting Lourdes and Fatima. I participated in processions honoring Mary. A statue of Mary was put on a platform that was decorated with flowers. There were poles on the platform, so that men could carry it. The men walked through the streets, carrying the statue on the platform. We walked behind the statue, singing songs in Mary’s honor.

When Pope John Paul II was shot, while the ambulance was rushing him to the hospital, the Pope was not praying to God or calling on the name of Jesus. He kept saying, over and over: "Mary, my mother!" Polish pilgrims placed a picture of Our Lady of Czestochowa on the throne where the Pope normally sat. People gathered around the picture. Vatican loudspeakers broadcasted the prayers of the rosary. When the Pope recovered, he gave Mary all the glory for saving his life, and he made a pilgrimage to Fatima to publicly thank her. (Note 4)

One popular prayer in Mary’s honor is the "Hail Holy Queen," which is known in Latin as the "Salve Regina". It is traditionally included as part of praying the rosary.

"Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy! Our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping, in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us; and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary."

Alfonsus de Liguori (1696-1787) was a principal proponent of the Marianist Movement, which glorifies Mary. He wrote a book entitled "The Glories of Mary" which is famous, influential and widely read. In this book, de Liguori says that Mary was given rulership over one half of the kingdom of God; Mary rules over the kingdom of mercy and Jesus rules over the kingdom of justice. De Liguori said that people should pray to Mary as a mediator and look to her as an object of trust for answered prayer. The book even says that there is no salvation outside of Mary. Some people suggest that these views are extreme and not representative of Catholic Church teaching. However, instead of silencing de Liguori as a heretic, the Catholic Church canonized him as a saint and declared him to be a "doctor of the Church" (a person whose teachings carry weight and authority). Furthermore, his book is openly and officially promoted by the Catholic Church, and his teachings have influenced popes. (Note 9)

Pope Benedict XV said of Mary that "[O]ne can justly say that with Christ, she herself redeemed mankind." (Note 10) Pope Pius IX said: "Our salvation is based upon the holy Virgin... so that if there is any hope and spiritual healing for us we receive it solely and uniquely from her."

Devotion Prayers

Opening Hymn
Mother Dearest, Mother Fairest

Mother dearest, Mother fairest,
Help of all who call on thee,
Virgin purest, brightest, rarest,
Help us, help, we cry to thee.

Mary help us, help we pray;
Mary help us, help, we pray;
Help us in all care and sorrow,
Mary help us, help we pray.

Lady, help in pain and sorrow,
Soothe those racked on bed of pain
May the golden light of morrow
Bring them health and joy again

Mary help us, help we pray;
Mary help us, help, we pray;
Help us in all care and sorrow,
Mary help us, help we pray.

(All kneel to recite the following prayers together if in a congregation or family)

dcalling said:
If Muhammad or God is worried about get their backs up, then why did God/Muhammad specifically pick out the Mary/Jesus/God trinity worshipers? God does not fear been backed up, in fact the verses I quoted
5:116 shows any detail even just local is specified.

As above.

dcalling said:
If the original are lost, Muhammad will let the believers known, remember he is the prophet, he will know the originals are lost. He didn't mention any of that, he come to confirm the Torah/Gospel, if he think even a bit that the originals are lost, or the greeks are faking it, he will point out, Paul/Matt/John/Mark, 4 words and we will not have this conversion right now. If you affirm that Muhammad is the all powerful God's messenger, you will respect his words.

The Final Prophet of GOD pbuh invited the Christians to revert back to the straight path. The Qur'an reasons and explains why Jesus and Mary are not Gods.
On the NT it says,

"From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done." (Quran 5:14)

You must have read this as you cited Sura 5.

dcalling said:
Look at all the verses in Quran about people of the book. yes they all warn them not to step out of their bounds, and yes a lot of them have stepped out their bounds, but they all know their bounds, by the word of God.

All Christians except some small groups like Unitarians are in grave error, as they all worship a man. This is a unforgivable sin.

dcalling said:
I will just quote scripture, and your explanation falls apart. Look at Quran (and not the commentaries), God is asking Muhammad if he doubts, ask those Jews/Christians, and he will know what he have is truth, which of course in your interpretation they have the corrupted books, and the prophet will be among the doubters?? I read the previous verses and it does not change this. Verse is very clear, no matter who want to twist it.
Surah 10:94 So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.

How am I twisting it? You have to look at the context, what are the prior verses before talking about? He's being told the story of Moses and Pharaoh, and if he's in doubt go and ask the people of the book who will confirm, yes indeed it happened.

You are simply in denial trying to prove Bible is 100% unaltered word of God :/

dcalling said:
Again, I am not trying to argue with you here, the only reason why I am trying to list this is because the Lord our God told us,
"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. Love your neighbor as yourself' (Mark 12:30).
I really want you to read the scripture as it is, trust in it and be closer to God.

Yes please do follow Mark 12:30 and worship GOD Alone, as Allah says, "That is better for you if ye did but know."

If you truly believe in the hereafter, then value your eternal soul and reflect.

loNe · Mar 21, 2017

habibii zahra said:
plz read this page about the presence of Mohammad in the bible
Muhammad In The Bible
THE AWAITED PROPHET WAS TO COME FROM ARABIA

Deuteronomy 33:1-2 combines references to Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. It speaks of God (i.e. God's revelation) coming from Sinai, rising from Seir (probably the village of Sa'ir near Jerusalem) and shining forth from Paran. According to Genesis 21:21, the wilderness of Paran was the place where Ishmael settled (i.e. Arabia, specifically Mecca).

Indeed the King James version of the Bible mentions the pilgrims passing through the valley of Ba'ca (another name of Mecca) in Psalms 84:4-6: "
Blessed are those who dwell in Your house;
They will still be praising You. Selah"

5 Blessed is the man whose strength is in You,
Whose heart is set on pilgrimage.
6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca,
They make it a spring;
The rain also covers it with pools

Isaiah 42:1-13 speaks of the beloved of God. His elect and messenger who will bring down a law to be awaited in the isles and who "shall not fail nor be discouraged till he have set judgement on earth." Verse 11, connects that awaited one with the descendants of Ke'dar. Who is Ke'dar? According to Genesis 25:13, Ke'dar was the second son of Ishmael, the ancestor of prophet Muhammad.
"The Lord will march out like a champion,AX)'
like a warrior he will stir up his zeal;AZ)'
with a shout he will raise the battle cry
and will triumph over his enemies"

source: Muhammad In The Bible

...utter and absolute Nonsense.

scripture's mortal enemy is ancient egypt,
who made an offshoot into 'islam' , which'deity is egyptian MENU ('allah')

...islam is devised to let arab-semites serve ancient egypt and her realm,
having produced a very flowery non-relevant storybook [quran] full of gleaned, deformed biblical stories, in order to suggest that they are related with quran's teachings ;
but quran serves Osiris, who stole Adam's aspects :

in sura 18
the quran gods say about Zul [Osiris], presented as canaanite horned god,
that "we gave him dominion over earth"

dougangel · Mar 21, 2017

danny ski said:
Set you free from what? Gd's commandments? Jeremiah said that under the New Covenant the Law will be written on people's hearts. How is that going to work, if you don't even know what the Law is? What Law is the Jeremiah talking about(when speaking to Jews)?

The New Testament is a fulfilment of the Old Testament. The New Testament also is an explanation of the Old Testament. There are many, quotations and references from the Old Testament that are found in the New Testament, followed by explanations of those quotations and references. The New Testament explains to us which parts of the Old Testament are to be used and followed by Christians and others that are amended or dropped. The epistles in the New Testament are written to Christians in order to tell Christians exactly what they should be doing as they attempt to live by faith for their Saviour in this world. Therefore, if you want to know if a particular commandment applies to Christians, simply look for that commandment in the gospels and epistles of the New Testament.

We approach the law through the teaching of Christ. We don’t approach the law from the teaching of Moses. Why do I have the confidence to say what I just wrote? I can say this because of what Paul writes and what the letters to the churches say. Many misunderstand what Paul says and it gets twisted and miss interpreted. Paul wrote many things about the law. It was a major issue because many of the people Paul was preaching too at different times in his ministry, were displaced Jews from the diaspora of Israel. Who were now in Asia Minor. Let’s start at 1st Corinthians 9:19 – 22 because it cannot be twisted or misunderstood.

1st Corinthians 9:19 - 22

19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel that I may share in its blessings.

Paul who is a Jew is not under the (Old Testament) law. But Paul is under Christs Laws. Or Paul is under New Testament laws. Anything that Paul wrote that contradicts this cannot be right as this is unmistakably plain and we can use this text as a platform for his other writings that are not so clear.

Romans 2:14

14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Gentiles who do not have the law. (Old Testament law) and never will. They have the requirements of Christ’s law written on their hearts. This is an example, one of many, why Paul gets misunderstood because he is mentioning two laws just using the word law.

Romans 7:6

6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

We don’t serve in the old way of the written code. The law he is talking about must be Old Testament law. What is the new way of the spirit? Well of course its Christ and the spiritual way he teaches and how to approach his New Testament spiritual laws.

Romans 8:1-2 New International Version (NIV)

8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

There is a law of the spirit.

God bless.

Muslim-UK · Mar 21, 2017

loNe said:
in sura 18
the quran gods say about Zul [Osiris], presented as canaanite horned god,
that "we gave him dominion over earth"

At least show a little credibility and post the name in full with the correct spelling:

Dhul-Qarnayn. Scholars say he is Cyrus the Great, the horns represent his dominion over the East and West.

He's presented as a God fearing person who came from the East.

Muslim-UK · Mar 21, 2017

loNe said:
i do egyptian hieroglyphs every day : i know what is the meaning of Sorcery,
and i know how deeply entrenched you people are in it.

'your scholars say'... blind leading blind .....
it's 1 religion of tricks, flowery nonsense and pharaonic [!] stubbornness.

You didnt know
you beloved HAJJ doesnt mean 'pilgrimage', but it's root is the word "Spell"

then you guys go 'find stones at the ZamZam well" ,
from the giants tribes surrounding old-israel , Rephaim, ZamZamim, etc,
read : you people serve them giants, in their name,

then you go swing rocks to 3 pillars,
thinking it is 'stoning a serpent' [your 'scholars' must have told you that eh ?]

but the meaning of those 3 pillars, in sequence is
"the black myrtle"/ "will not discover' / "the Way" [christ]

the black myrtle is another name for Cham, one of 3 ancestor groups,
which' evil offsplit were egyptians, nimrod, etc,
but they need to keep réal cham imprisoned - cause they feed upon him.

And you stubborn ***** aid them ,
you keep us with your 1 bln imprisoned in this hellhole - if you but could !

well im here to tell you,
that i virtually got your allah in chief : the egyptian deity MENU

No More.

For someone who claims to understand ancient myths, you seem oblivious to the fact Christianity is repackaged Osiris Sun Worship. You should tell your brethren in the East to rewrite their Arabic Bibles because they all start with:
Gen 1:1 In the beginning ALLAH created the heaven and the earth.

Mohammad in the bible

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