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Mohammad in the bible

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by habibii zahra, Mar 10, 2017.

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  1. habibii zahra

    habibii zahra Well-Known Member

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    plz read this page about the presence of Mohammad in the bible
    Muhammad In The Bible
    THE AWAITED PROPHET WAS TO COME FROM ARABIA

    Deuteronomy 33:1-2 combines references to Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. It speaks of God (i.e. God's revelation) coming from Sinai, rising from Seir (probably the village of Sa'ir near Jerusalem) and shining forth from Paran. According to Genesis 21:21, the wilderness of Paran was the place where Ishmael settled (i.e. Arabia, specifically Mecca).

    Indeed the King James version of the Bible mentions the pilgrims passing through the valley of Ba'ca (another name of Mecca) in Psalms 84:4-6: "
    Blessed are those who dwell in Your house;
    They will still be praising You. Selah"

    5 Blessed is the man whose strength is in You,
    Whose heart is set on pilgrimage.
    6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca,
    They make it a spring;
    The rain also covers it with pools


    Isaiah 42:1-13 speaks of the beloved of God. His elect and messenger who will bring down a law to be awaited in the isles and who "shall not fail nor be discouraged till he have set judgement on earth." Verse 11, connects that awaited one with the descendants of Ke'dar. Who is Ke'dar? According to Genesis 25:13, Ke'dar was the second son of Ishmael, the ancestor of prophet Muhammad.
    "The Lord will march out like a champion,AX)'
    like a warrior he will stir up his zeal;AZ)'
    with a shout he will raise the battle cry
    and will triumph over his enemies"

    source: Muhammad In The Bible
     
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  2. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member

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  3. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    Why do Muslims quote the bible to support their beliefs?
    They believe the bible is full of errors. The original writings have been changed. You could not possible know if what you are quoting has been changed or not( in accordance with your belief)

    Therefore, according to Islamic belief, you cannot prove anything concerning Islam from a book you believe to be errant, can you
     
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  4. KWCrazy

    KWCrazy Newbie

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    They are trying to normalize their abnormal religion. Mohammed is never mentions specifically, but the Bible does warn of false prophet who will deceive many. One such false prophet is a highwayman and thug named Mohammed. Far from being a Holy Man, his was life of violence, decadence and adultery. There are seven attributes of a false prophet and Mohammed fit all seven. The Bible warned us. We are without excuse.
     
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  5. Strivax

    Strivax Pilgrim on another way Supporter

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    Hmmm. I think the proof of the pudding is in the eating. And as I look around the world, The Christian West, though it has its problems, is by and large peaceful and prosperous. And Muslim states are mostly in total disarray, and when not, because of a fiercely repressive ruling regime. I do not think this is a good advertisement for Islam.

    Best wishes, Strivax.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
  6. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member

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    You misunderstand the Islamic position on the current day Bible. We believe Moses was given the Taurat, David the Zaboor and Jesus the Injeel, Peace be upon them all. Much of what they were given has been lost, other parts corrupted and changed. However, much has been preserved and carried forward into the Bible, so we find much that is truth to read, much wisdom and many hidden gems. These books are mentioned in the Qur'an, so Muslims are free to refer to them, or rather what remains of them in the Bible. What agrees with the Qur'an, (the benchmark) is accepted, what remains is split as follows:

    Verses speaking well of Previous Prophets and events are accepted as likely from GOD
    Verses slandering Prophets are rejected outright, the same is true of verses going against Science or known Historical events.
    What remains, if it's not contentious and invites to good, then we say, perhaps it's from GOD.

    Basically we take the good and reject the bad. Christians on the other hand shouldn't quote the Qur'an, as they reject Muhammad pbuh as being a Prophet and claim the Qur'an isn't from GOD.

    Anyway, back on topic, what do you make of the information given by the OP and the video?
     
  7. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    I dont misunderstand the Islamic position at all. It is not possible for you to know which verses have or have not been corrupted in the bible according to Islamic viewpoint. Therefore, it would be wrong for you to selectively quote the bible when it suits you.
    Mohammad considered the gospels sacred, but at the same Time Muslims reject the death of Christ at Calvary.
    Zechariah is one of islams major fifteen prophets, but you have to believe the book of Zechariah is corrupted

    Besides all this, just about every old testement prophet, including Zechariah prophesied God would at a time in the future return the Israelites to their homeland. Yet you must disagree with them all.
    If Mohammad is a prophet in line with the biblical prophets, why are muslims so opposed to what the biblical prophets plainly wrote?
     
  8. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member

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    One would agree wholeheartedly if like you they took their information from the enemies of Islam. People with wisdom do the research for themselves and come to very different conclusions. To illustrate this point consider the following assessment from a English Writer and Historian, Thomas Carlyle:

    "Our current hypothesis about Mahomet, that he was a scheming Impostor, a Falsehood incarnate, that his religion is a mere mass of quackery and fatuity, begins really to be now untenable to any one. The lies, which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man, are disgraceful to ourselves only."

    “It is a great shame for anyone to listen to the accusation that Islam is a lie and that Muhammad was a fabricator and a deceiver. We saw that he remained steadfast upon his principles, with firm determination; kind and generous, compassionate, pious, virtuous, with real manhood, hardworking and sincere. Besides all these qualities, he was lenient with others, tolerant, kind, cheerful and praiseworthy and perhaps he would joke and tease his companions. He was just, truthful, smart, pure, magnanimous and present-minded; his face was radiant as if he had lights within him to illuminate the darkest of nights; he was a great man by nature who was not educated in a school nor nurtured by a teacher as he was not in need of any of this.
    Thomas Carlyle, On Heroes, Hero Worship and the Heroic in History

    There are many other such comments from non Muslims, and the one thing that has always perplexed Western Historians is how in God's name did Islam spread so rapidly without wide spread destruction of Churches and Synagogues. Also Jews and Christians were given positions of influence and power with many serving in the Islamic armies. This has lead some to conclude Islam was started by various groups of Monotheistic followers under the banner of a 'Believers' movement.

     
  9. KWCrazy

    KWCrazy Newbie

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    One quote bears significance above all others. "I am the way, the truth and the light. Nobody comes to the father but by me." Jesus Christ.
     
  10. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    They will probably tell you that is a corrupted verse.
    This is why you get nowhere chatting to Muslims. Bring forth any verse of scripture that contradicts their beliefs and they will tell you it is corrupted text.
    Its all they can do of course to justify their beliefs
     
  11. KWCrazy

    KWCrazy Newbie

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    It's sad that people so devout can follow a religion so unholy and a "prophet" whose words and deed have no doubt earned him an eternity in the hell fire.
     
  12. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member

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    All metaphors for being Torah observant.

    1) He is the way.
    2) He is the truth.
    3) He is the life.
    4) No one comes to the Father except through him.


    The 'Way', the 'Truth' and the 'Life' are all metaphors for Torah or being Torah observant:

    I am the way. To his Disciples; the Old Testament Jew, the way was the Torah. The only way to God was through the law. Psalms 119:1 says, “Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the LAW of the LORD.” Psalms 32:8 says, “I will instruct you and show you the way to go; with My eye on you, I will give counsel.” Jesus' followers were also very familiar with Exodus 18:20”And you shall teach them the statutes and the laws, and show them the way in which they must walk and the work they must do.” For the Jews, that way was the law and the prophets. In Jewish tradition, the way to find the path to God was to study the Torah.

    I am the truth. To the Torah Jew, the truth was the Torah. Psalms 119:142 says, “Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and your law is truth.” Verse 151 says “You are near, Lord, and all Your commands are truth.” The Jews understood, that truth was the law and the prophets. Absolute truth could only be found in God and revealed in the Law and the Prophets. God was seen as the God of Truth, and the Torah was said to be His thoughts and the revelation of His purpose in the creation of the universe, thereby revealing absolute truth. All “truth” was to be compared against the Truth revealed in the Law and the prophets. The disciples had been taught from childhood that if something did not line up with the truth of scripture, then it was not true.

    I am the life. To the Torah Jew, the life was the Torah. In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, Moses gives the Israelites a choice to make. They could choose life and prosperity, or they could choose death and adversity. If they chose life, they would have to walk in God's ways, and keep his Law, because God is their life. If they chose death, they were free to ignore God's ways and laws. Moses gave them this advice, choose life. For the Israelite, to follow the law was to choose life. The Torah was life. The disciples had been taught this from childhood.

    No one comes to the Father except through Me. To the Old Testament Jew, the only way to God was through the Law. The Law made it possible for the Israelites to approach God. The sacrifices and rituals allowed them to present themselves before God and to be accepted by him. Those who tried to approach God without following the Law usually ended up dead, (Nadab and Abihu in Leviticus 10). All Israelites knew that the only way to God was through the Law.

    Four radical, clear cut statements from the lips of Jesus pbuh. Remember he was very clear about the Torah:

    Sermon on the Mount; Matthew 5:
    17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
     
  13. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member

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    Only your own Christian Scholars acknowledge your Scriptures have been lost, corrupted and heavily edited.
     
  14. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    None I know of who is saying this?

    It was thought for a long time the Old Testament could have been changed after Christ came to earth since there were tons of prophecies about him and really nothing about Mohammad. This all changed with the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1945 and the discovery of most of the Old Testament Books being just like the Old Testament we have been using and the Dead sea Scrolls are carbon dated back to before Christ.

    Christ did not come along saying the Old Testament was corrupted and quoted it frequently.

    The New Testament goes back to 17,000 ancient hand written manuscripts that are 95%+ word for word consistent and 100% consistent in content (you get the truth from any of them).

    There are tons of other manuscripts not part of the Bible from the same period that are obviously corrupted with only one or a few copies. The fact that the letters of the Bible were spread throughout the Roman Empire and beyond prior to being collected together would make it virtually impossible to alter. There was never any mass consolidation or any attempt to destroy any version of the New testament to limit the variations (there really were significant variations at any time).
     
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  15. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member

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    Every Scholar in the field acknowledges the originals are lost including Craig Evans in the following debate. Watch from 10:40 or from the start which addresses most of the points you raised:


    Evangelical Scholars are likely to tow the official line as is to be expected. Sometimes even they stray and have to be brought into line; Mike Licona and William Lane Craig being to such examples.

    Dead Sea Scrolls date from 2nd Century B.C to First Century A.D this is a gap of more than 1,000 years after Moses pbuh died and the Scrolls show there were several Torahs in circulation amongst different sects. http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-life-and-religion/132004/the-other-torah
     
  16. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    But the scriptures have not changed since mohamnad lived, and he declared the gospels sacred, which is rather strange as myslins believe Jesus didn't die at calvary
    Mohammad also urged hus followers to consult the book( the bible) why do that if he believed it was corrupt?

    The problem you have is trying to align Mohammad with the biblical prophets. You would have to throw out huge swathes of what they wrote to allow for your beliefs. As has been pointed out to you, Christ did not throw out what they had written, he much quoted them. And you are supposed to take as much notice of Christs words as mohammads. In Islamic doctrine, Mohammad I equal to, not greater than the other fourteen major prophets
     
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  17. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member

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    Can you show us a copy of the Tanakh from the 7th Century?

    Sa‘eed al-Fayyoomi, (d. 943 AH) was the first one to translate the Old Testament into Arabic. He also wrote a commentary for most of its books. The Torah he quotes is nowhere to be found anywhere else except in the book of Idrees ‘Abayzah entitled Introduction to the Study and Critique of the Torah, accompanied by its Translation into Arabic by Sa‘diyyaa Ka’oon al-Fayyoomi.

    I know the verse you are referring to, but you don't understand the context. The Qur'an tells us the Torah and Injeel have been corrupted:

    So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn. Qur'an 2:79

    What would we have to throw out?
    And as I'm sure you know, GOD in Isaiah 42 mentioned a new Covenant to come from Arabia.
    GOD indeed makes no distinction between his Prophets.
     
  18. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    Oh you would have to throw a lot out. All the OT prophets with one voice prophesied a time would come when God brought the Israelites back to the biblical land they possessed, never to be uprooted from it again.
    In 1948 they became a nation again in that land. So you will have to say it is all corrupted text wont you!

    And no it doesn't say in my bible a new covenant will be made from Arabia. Isaiah does prophecy Christs death for sins, in your view That is corrupted as well, yet you still quote Isaiah!!

    Jewish history states Christ was crucified, the eyewitnesses said Christ died, but a man who lived 600 years later said it didn't happen!
    The canon of the bible was put together around 300 AD I think. I'm not a historian so it could be a bit either way.

    Oh and john the Baptist is one of your fifteen major prophets. He distinguished between Christ and himself. He did not believe he was equal to Christ. Doubtless more corrupted text in your view
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
  19. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member

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    Where does the Qur'an or Muhammad pbuh ever say they wouldn't be gathered back to Palestine?

    Why would I consider this corrupted text.

    In the Torah the Jews rebelled against GOD on at least two notable occasions; the result was their temple was destroyed and they were exiled.

    After the first time, they repented and were eventually gathered back. On the second occasion, when Jesus pbuh came to them, he made clear John the Baptist was the final Prophet to come to them, they rejected Jesus pbuh and within a few decades the Temple was again destroyed and the Jews scattered throughout the World.

    In 1948 they were gathered back to Palestine. Was it because they repented to GOD or was another force behind their relocation back to Palestine? Some Orthodox Jews are aware of this issue and are against the modern State of Israel. Ultimately it's all part of GOD's plan and things are playing out as prophesied.

    Which Bible do you read from, so I can see what the issue is and continue this dialogue.

    Which eyewitnesses? Did all Christians in the First Century accept what you say?

    4th Century, which means a complete Bible doesn't appear until 200+ years after Jesus pbuh was taken up alive to GOD.

    All Prophets are equal in the sight of GOD despite the modesty of the individual Prophets, and that of course is if their words have been recorded accurately.
     
  20. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    In relation to did Jesus die at Calvary. There are numerous prophecy's by Christ himself in the gospels that he would be put to death, so you will have to say all of them are corrupted texts wont you, for prophets cannot prophesy incorrectly!
    All of Christs disciples believed he died at Calvary. The writers of the gospels all believe he died at Calvary. john states Jesus spoke directly to him from the cross and his mother from the cross, so you will have to say that is all corrupted text, and Jewish history states Christ died also. Plus the writers of the gospels all claim Jesus appeared to his disciples once he had risen from the dead. So you must claim the writers of the gospels were all blatant liars
    Ezekiel ch36 is a good explanation of why God would bring them back to their biblical homeland.
    John the Baptist certainly claimed Jesus was greater than he
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
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