I’d like to ask a question to the people who have posted here who feel the need to judge women based on their clothing…
I don't mind answering this.
I'm glad you are willing to have the discussion after all, sunflower.
Thanks for asking,
I hope you are also willing to share, because I too have a question. I'll answer yours, of course.
Are persons in the congregation to make judgments?
Jesus said, at Matthew 7
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor
can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
For someone to differentiate between good fruit, and rotten fruit, they have to make a judgment, don't they? They have to examine characteristics, and make determinations about them. Isn't that so?
The matter of judging, is further revealed in
1 Corinthians 5:12,
13.
12 For what
have I
to do with judging those also who are outside?
Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”
Just as the elders need - are required - to judge those in the congregation, other brothers and sisters, who are not blind, will form their own judgments.
You yourself make judgments, for example, referring to persons who dress in what has long been known as decent and well arranged, as dressing like a grandmother.
What I'd like to ask, is, if the elders in the first century, gave counsel to a brother, or sister, on their dress, in accordance with 1 Timothy 2:9, 10, and the person does not adjust, because they do not consider their clothing inappropriate, what might the elders do, and would you support their decision?
For example:
How do you know that the woman walking down the street wearing the short skirt is not more of a committed Christian than you and I are?
That is a good question.
You said committed Christian, so I assume you mean committed to God, and not committed to the standards of the world's view of Christian.
In Titus 2:2-8, Paul repeatedly used the term
néphalios - sober-minded
It carries the thought of being clear-minded; circumspect ("sober"), free from life-dominating influences. We might as well say, a person having good judgment. So we could appreciate the expression there "free from life-dominating influences". Or, not influenced or swayed by the world.
Paul also frequently used the term
sóphrón: of sound mind, self-controlled, which involves modesty, chastity, along with sober-minded.
Would you say a person lacking these two qualities, can be, as you put it, "more of a committed Christian"?
How do we know the person who identifies with the world, is not more committed?
What we choose to wear, sends a message about who we are, our values - it's an identity.
"Many women do not even seem to reali[z]e the extent to which their clothing is sending certain messages. A lot of this comes down to the way men and women are wired."
I did ask that you gave it some consideration. Remember?
Someone else
@Stephen3141 said something similar:
There is no room in the People of God, for those who identify as something other than a child of God. And this means that our dress, and behavior, and hair styles, all need to conform to God's standards of decency.
Would you care to share how you feel about these statements?
We would be interesting in hearing from you.
How would we know if someone isn't good association, for our children?
Isn't it by what we see? Does it not come back down to what Jesus said about fruit, and identifying marks?
Maybe you and I fall short in areas she doesn’t.
We all fall short. No human is perfect.
However, when any counsel is given, we should use it to our benefit, rather than point out things that we do not know, nor can see.
What people see, is what, determines the reputation we get.
Hence, the elders do not consider an individual a good recommendation, if they do not have a good reputation from onlookers.
1 Timothy 3:7
Furthermore, he must have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the snare of the devil.
While the world loses sight of what decency is, as their standard drop lower, and lower, being sober-minded, and self-controlled allows Christian sister, not to lose track of what decency is.
This too, does good for onlookers.
Titus 2:3-5
3 the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things — 4 that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5
to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands,
that the word of God may not be blasphemed.
If we profess to be Christian, anything we do, whether it be what we watch for entertainment, what words we use, how we choose to dress, all have an impact on how onlookers view God's word.
The impact can either be positive, or negative.
Do we want to contribute to the negative?
You want to contribute to people viewing the word positively, don't you.
