MLK Day and the White community

[MachZer0]

study your history. mlk had a major influence in keeping the black panthers from being the major instrument of change in the civil rights movement. he held them off for a decade,

How did he hold them off for a decade when the Black Panther party was formed in 1966 and King died in 1968? The greater reason for the Panthers not being the major instrument of change was that they were criminals

 

[Yusuf Evans]

Attitudes about MLK and a holiday vary depending on the area of the country. It is no wonder that attitudes in NC are disrespectful. I imagine it is the same throughout the south.

The American blacks deserve to have heros that are recognized nationally. They are every bit a part of this country as whites. MLK tried to make life better for his race and he wasn't a perfect human, like all of ushe helped make this country change for the better.

You can't base your assumptions of an entire region on the acts of a few people. Granted there are still people in the South that are ignorant, but in my home state of Alabama, and I also know in Georgia, Martin Luther King is heralded as a hero and there will be honor given to him.

 

[reverend B]

How did he hold them off for a decade when the Black Panther party was formed in 1966 and King died in 1968? The greater reason for the Panthers not being the major instrument of change was that they were criminals

sorry. the influence of his movement is what kept them from increasing their influence. the leaders of the movement had to keep them at bay for years. it was a process of constant negotiation.
criminal or not, their vision was to create anarchy through violence. the changes would have been different, but dramatic nonetheless. instead, the process happened with the blessing of the system, of laws and policy and federal intervention. we have much to thank mlk for.

 

[EverlastingMan]

Not black panthers; what he did was prevent radicalism such as the black panthers practiced.

 

[variant]

Not really. I see him as an opportunist. What happened in the civil rights movement most likely would have happened without his presence, possibly even sooner and with less violence.

Some people are interested in revisionist history, so they can disparage good men, I am not.


MLK practiced non-violent resistance and respectful civil disobedience rather than letting the inevitable drive toward civil rights tear this country apart in a violent race war. No, it would not have happened sooner or without him there. It would have been MUCH more violent, and probably taken longer. You are underestimating the people who were against such a movement (they were the source of the violence) blaming King for their violent bigoted attitudes is laughable.


Not only did the civil rights movement have to overcome bigoted racists, but also those who were happy with the status Quo. In my opinion, those people who were not willing to make the hard decisions necessary for justice and change, were just as culpable in the communal denial of African Americans rights.

 

[praying]

You can't base your assumptions of an entire region on the acts of a few people. Granted there are still people in the South that are ignorant, but in my home state of Alabama, and I also know in Georgia, Martin Luther King is heralded as a hero and there will be honor given to him.

There will no doubt, be honors paid to him by states everywhere but as Rev B stressed in the OP the question isn't official sanction but the nitty gritty. The down in the trenches feelings. How often do you here people referring to not just him but any black person dispargingly, that is the issue that the OP raises. It isn't, should MLK have a holiday or not but out of the limelight how much has really changed in how people truly feel. MLK day always brings out the very visceral racists but they and the people the Rev B referred to in the OP are there all year. It is the ones in th OP that are the most insidious.

As we can see from one poster the holding of slaves by a president can be overlooked in terms of moral character but he is stil expected to be celebrated. Why is that?

 

[praying]

Not only did the civil rights movement have to overcome bigoted racists, but also those who were happy with the status Quo. In my opinion, those people who were not willing to make the hard decisions necessary for justice and change, were just as culpable in the communal denial of African Americans rights.

Those are also the very people that the OP is referring to as MLK stated:

"We will have to repent in this generation, not only for the hateful actions of bad people, but the appalling silence of the good."
--Martin Luther King

 

[hernyaccent]

How did he hold them off for a decade when the Black Panther party was formed in 1966 and King died in 1968? The greater reason for the Panthers not being the major instrument of change was that they were criminals

The party may not have been formed until 1966 but trust me when I say the ideas were there. The reason why Dr. King is honored is because he showed people there was another way. After years and years of not just mental but physical abuse it was just a matter of time before blacks turned that physical abuse around on there so called "superiors". Dr. King and other leaders stood up and gave blacks an educated way to deal with what they were facing and if he/they hadn't they/we would have appeared to be "savages". He forced the rest of the world to see view us as people capable of coming together in a controled mannor.

As far as your statement about Panthers being criminals...ask yourself what made them criminals? If everyday of your life you walked out of you door and were belittled,abused,mistreated and never had a fair shot at a happy life wouldn't you think at least about attacking your oppressers?

Dr. King's B-Day is the only national day an black has in this country. Why must you belittle it.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

There will no doubt be honors paid to him by states everywhere but as Rev B stressed in the OP the question isn't official sanction but the nitty gritty. The dwon in the trenches feelings. How often do you here people referring to not just him but any black person dispargingly, that is the issue that the OP raises. It isn't should MLK have a holiday or not but out of the limelight how much has really changed in how people truly feel. MLK day always brings out the very visceral racists but they and the people the Rev B referred to in the OP are there all year. It is the ones in th OP that are the most insidious.

As we can see from one poster the holding of slaves by a president can be overlooked in terms of moral character but he is stil expected to be celebrated. Why is that?

You'll never be able to change everyone, especially the issue of racism. It's born on all sides of the house, and it's a flawed human trait. I think the only thing that can be said of President's like Washington and Lincol are that they were pioneers. While Washington may have owned slaves, he was a leader regardless. Lincoln may have freed the slaves, but he personally didn't like blacks in general. I think probably the least overlooked person in the Civil War leadrship was Robert E Lee. It's unfortunate that he fought for the South, because he was adamantly opposed to slavery. Sure he had blacks working on his land, but they were free. Anyways, back to the OP.

Well, we do celebrate Columbus Day, and we know how the Spanish and the early settlers treated the American Indians. It's especially bad when you have a President heralded as a hero who advocates the genocide of a race (Andrew Jackson). All humans are flawed, and when your in a leadership position, your shortcomings are spotlighted times 10.

 

[Harlan Norris]

monday celebrates the life of a man who changed the complexion of our country forever, in more ways than one. people of color came out of the shadows and became participating members in the american debate. with his strength through peace, he defeated the enemy by accepting his blows, much like our savior did. though he had personal flaws and weaknesses, he had a dramatic impact on what this country would become, and in my opinion deserves the honor we bestow upon him this Jan. 16.
i live in north carolina. i work among the rank and file people of our country. i am not in an ivory tower. i work among the working class folks, trying to make each paycheck last until the next. i am white.
in the last week i have heard monday called "n***er" day, had a retired gentleman make a joke about our heart rehab session being cancelled (it was not), and people laugh about having the day off or not being able to do their banking. i have yet to run into a white person down here that is proud that we are taking a breath in the middle of our busy lives to honor this man of peace. i have not heard it mentioned among the white Christians or prominently mentioned on the signage in front of churches. what is it like where you live folks? what does the unspoken america look like?

Interesting.I'll see what happenes tomorrow in church.Whether or not it's mentioned.

 

[praying]

You'll never be able to change everyone, especially the issue of racism. It's born on all sides of the house, and it's a flawed human trait. I think the only thing that can be said of President's like Washington and Lincol are that they were pioneers. While Washington may have owned slaves, he was a leader regardless. Lincoln may have freed the slaves, but he personally didn't like blacks in general. I think probably the least overlooked person in the Civil War leadrship was Robert E Lee. It's unfortunate that he fought for the South, because he was adamantly opposed to slavery. Sure he had blacks working on his land, but they were free. Anyways, back to the OP.

No the blacks on his land were not free. However my point wasn't to disparage Washington or any other person. I was pointing out the hypocracy and bias of the objection to MLK.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

No the blacks on his land were not free. However my point wasn't to disparage Washington or any other person. I was pointing out the hypocracy and bias of the objection to MLK.

Are you referring to Washington or Lee? I know that there are allot of people who disagree with the Martin Luther King holiday, I am not one of those. I have given a speech once before at a luncheon in honor of African-Americans and their contributions to the U.S. military. God bless.

Brother-in-Christ,

Jerry

 

[praying]

Are you referring to Washington or Lee? I know that there are allot of people who disagree with the Martin Luther King holiday, I am not one of those. I have given a speech once before at a luncheon in honor of African-Americans and their contributions to the U.S. military. God bless.

Brother-in-Christ,

Jerry

Lee, he owned slaves.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

Lee, he owned slaves.

Deleted. Too much controversy on this issue.

 

[praying]

Deleted. Too much controversy on this issue.

Lee as slave owner
As a member of the Virginia aristocracy, Lee had lived in close contact with slavery all of his life, but he never held more than about a half-dozen slaves under his own name—in fact, it was not positively known that he had held any slaves at all under his own name until the rediscovery of his 1846 will in the records of Rockbridge County, Virginia, which referred to an enslaved woman named Nancy and her children, and provided for their manumission in case of his death. [1]

However, when Lee's father-in-law, George Washington Parke Custis, died in October 1857, Lee came into a considerable amount of property through his wife, and also gained temporary control of a large population of slaves—sixty-three men, women, and children, in all—as the executor of Custis's will. Under the terms of the will, the slaves were to be freed "in such a manner as to my executors may seem most expedient and proper", with a maximum of five years from the date of Custis's death provided to arrange for the necessary legal details of manumission.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee#Lee_as_slave_owner

 

[ravenscape]

I live in a culturally diverse community and MLK jr day is a big day here. I like it that way. If the weather's not too bad and if my oldest son is fit to travel, we plan to go into San Francisco to Glide Memorial Church on Monday.

 

[Doctrine1st]

Not really. I see him as an opportunist. What happened in the civil rights movement most likely would have happened without his presence, possibly even sooner and with less violence.

Boulderdash.

Blacks had to fight for evey inch of the American dream, from freedom, to voting, to employment, to education, to housing, to you name it. Nothing would have came sooner if they kept in the place the majority wanted to keep them in.

 

[ballfan]

I see nothing wrong with having a MLK day.

I also see nothing wrong with honoring Confederate Civil War hero's.

In Charlotte there was a recent move to rename Stonewall St. to something honoring MLK. That in spite of the miles of new road built there. The question is; Why?

And this type thing is going on all over the South. I'm proud of my heritage. My great grandfather fought for the South.

I deal with the public everyday. I can assure you there is no shortage of racism from all races.

MLK stood up strongly for what he believed. He often made mistakes in his mission. Looking back, it could have been done better but like many he was finding his way as he went.

 

[hernyaccent]

In Charlotte there was a recent move to rename Stonewall St. to something honoring MLK. That in spite of the miles of new road built there. The question is; Why?

I deal with the public everyday. I can assure you there is no shortage of racism from all races.

MLK stood up strongly for what he believed. He often made mistakes in his mission. Looking back, it could have been done better but like many he was finding his way as he went.

I don't know the type of neighborhood Stonewall Street is located in , in Charlotte but I can tell you why it might be difficult to get new roads named after the man. I lived on a Martin Luther King Drive growing up and it was the heart of horrible urban neighborhood. A street named after Dr. King has become equavalent to crime filled urban neighborhood. The name has the possibliity to decreare property value and perhaps allow blacks into the neighbor.

Example :

“White politicians haven’t necessarily had any problems naming streets for King as long as they were located largely in the black community,” Alderman said. “It’s typically when black activists want to extend King’s name outside of the black community, that’s typically when they run into the most opposition.”

http://www.chapelhillnews.com/front/story/2384642p-8762748c.html

I use to think reverse racism existed but then I realized that most blacks don't have negative feelings againsts whites because they feel superior to them but because we feel inferior to them. To have racism there needs to be a superiority which isn't there in most of the black community.


If it was done "better" it might not have been done at all. Every human makes mistakes I don't see the point in point fingers at Dr. Kings mistakes when he was the voice of a people who changed this nation.

 

[ballfan]

I don't know the type of neighborhood Stonewall Street is located in , in Charlotte but I can tell you why it might be difficult to get new roads named after the man. I lived on a Martin Luther King Drive growing up and it was the heart of horrible urban neighborhood. A street named after Dr. King has become equavalent to crime filled urban neighborhood. The name has the possibliity to decreare property value and perhaps allow blacks into the neighbor.

Who made the neighborhood that way?

Example :

“White politicians haven’t necessarily had any problems naming streets for King as long as they were located largely in the black community,” Alderman said. “It’s typically when black activists want to extend King’s name outside of the black community, that’s typically when they run into the most opposition.”

http://www.chapelhillnews.com/front/story/2384642p-8762748c.html

I don't think I-485 would have any such problem. MLK Beltway or Freeway wouldn't draw opposition there.

I use to think reverse racism existed but then I realized that most blacks don't have negative feelings againsts whites because they feel superior to them but because we feel inferior to them. To have racism there needs to be a superiority which isn't there in most of the black community.

That explanation won't fly. Blacks are as racist as anybody else.

If it was done "better" it might not have been done at all. Every human makes mistakes I don't see the point in point fingers at Dr. Kings mistakes when he was the voice of a people who changed this nation.

Everybody does indeed make mistakes and there doesn't seem to be any hesitation about finger pointing in other cases. I don't see where MLK should be any different.