MIxing occult/new age with christianity

[secretdawn]

Ok so i am saved, that is the big picture, but i don't want to end up falling for some trick and end up accidentilly thinking jesus did something that satan did or vice versa...

 

[P_G]

Yes it does scare people cause I am really freaked out right now...How am I supposed to know if my church is right or wrong...how do I know if it is Satan or Jesus/Lord...I mean, I am not like you guys, I don't prophesy, I don't want to and I wasn't meant to, I know that...that is not the spiritual gift I will recieve...I am not to hot at listening to God, though I may try, and I get the impression that God doesn't want me to be baptised in the holy spirit yet...so here I am new, lost and confused, and I am freaked out cause I don't know if I can tell the difference between faith and satanic stuff...

Fear not dear sister!

Don't stress on these things.
Blessed are they who wait uppon the Lord!

He is not slow as some would define slowness but rather he is patient with us.

I suggest that you would pray for and welcome the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Let the Lord himself prepare you for what is to come. Don't be over anxious or worse yet covetous of the gifts you see manifesting in other people.

Also don't let others tell you that unless you exhibit this gift or that gift you are some how less saved or less blessed than others who do. This leads to "faking the funk" ie false toungues, false prophecy etc. Notice no one ever is very successfull in false working of miracles or false healing!

I truely beleive that your path will be found in the still small voice, and you will hear it as you pray, sing, listen and wait.


many blessings

Pastor George

 

[LynneClomina]

Ok so i am saved, that is the big picture, but i don't want to end up falling for some trick and end up accidentilly thinking jesus did something that satan did or vice versa...

secretdawn, may i suggest something?... meditate on Luke 11:10-13:

For every one that asks, recieves; and he that seeks, finds; and to him that knocks it shall be opened. If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he asks for a fish, will he five him a serpent? Or if he shall ask for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father GIVE THEM THE HOLY SPIRIT TO THEN THAT ASK HIM?

the Bible says there will be wheat among the tares... that is the unbelieveing and the ungodly, and we are to leave them there, they will be amongst us to the end. yes, there may be people at your church that are deceived by the enemy and move under his power.... but if your heart is right before God and you are seeking Him, and Him only, then you do hae nothing to fear.... you ask God for the Holy Spirit, you will get only the Holy Spirit, not a fake.... ask God for discernment of the spirits operating in others, but fear is not from God... He has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

you just keep yourself in tune with God, and in doing so you will serve as an example of growth in God and being free in the spirit.

God bless ya, Lynne

 

[Svt4Him]

So back to the OP, the problem with a post like that is it gets off issues, and attacks people. If there is a specific post someone here has done, address it. I've heard a gazillion people say 'I'll pray for you because you are deceived', and none actually do. But if you are, go to your prayer closet and shut the door, don't shout it from the roof.

 

[LynneClomina]

Svt4Him, what is an OP?

i dont understand what you are talking about.....

be blessed. Lynne

 

[WayneH]

OP = Original Post....

Secretdawn.... asking Christ to be Lord and Saviour of your life gives you something that will stand against anything.. The Holy Spirit dwells in you once you open your heart to Christ.. there is a difference between the Holy Spirit dwelling in you and the Holy Spirit baptising you.... The Holy Spirit will help you - stand by you - lift you - trust in the Lord with all your might and God will NEVER let anything be bigger then you can handle... Different people have different gifts.. some gifts are things you can see in a person - some are not.. I know a man who was very rich - he watched and watched as people got up to go to the mission field within the church..

he got up - told the church thru tears that he couldn't go - didn't feel led to go - but he did have a gift - he made money - lots of it.. he used the money he made and gave to those that could go.. some people have a mission field in the closet to pray for those in need.. We need to keep our minds sharp with the Word of God...

as for the OP... God tells us that the church will be invaded by the unchurched - people will lead the church to tickle our ears - there will be infighting within the church.. I've seem it ands been a part of it.. I was verbally attacked one sunday by someone I thought a Brother in Christ.. I know it was satans way to try and destroy what God is building...

Always focus on CHRIST........... God Bless

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Oh yes there is didy
Manipulation is as the sin of witchcraft.. so therefore charismatics who manipulate with FALSE fleshy prophecies are in the same boat as the psychics who do the same thing.
Gods graceful gifts arent to be mocked either. And those pastors and fellowship who use false gifts or control their God given gifts to control a situation or get lying prophecies from the devil because its what their heart wants is operating under a witchcraft spirit. The term charismatic witchcraft is widely used to dictate the difference between the two witchcraft spirits.. manipulation with spells OR manipulation in the church. It would be nice if it didnt exist but it does

I would agree with diddy, there is no such thing as Charasmatic witchcraft. If a Christian is walking in rebellion, they may be practicing witchcraft but it does not involve the Holy Ghost one ioata.

1 Sam 15:23 says, "For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry".

The term Charasmatic Witchcraft may be a widely used term but scripturally it is incorrect. Just the same as there is no such thing as a Christian Witch, it is impossible for a Christian, FILLED and WALKING in the Holy Spirit to be rebellious.

The Charasmatic believer, who is FILLED and WALKING in the Holy Ghost will not be walking in rebellion, therefore it is impossible for them to be practicing witchcraft too. If they are in rebellion, they are practicing witchcraft. If they are not in rebellion, they are walking in the Holy Ghost. It's impossible to do both at the same time. It's one or the other.

Christian mean "Christlike". There is nothing Christlike about rebellion against God's law's. Rebellion is practiced by many in probably every single church in America at the least, but to call it Christian rebellion would be a serious error. We have Christian's who gossip, slander, steal, fornicate, hate, refuse to forgive, etc. All of that is rebellion to His Word, and there is nothing Christian about it.

I believe it was James who pointed out that bitter and sweet water cannot come out of the same faucet. In God's way, it's either bitter or it's sweet. . .hot or cold. . .lukewarm makes God

 

[Perceivence]

I'd just like to back up the above poster and diddy with the whole "Charismatic Witchcraft" thing. They're a contradiction of terms and, though the general idea is conveyed, I'd suggest finding a new expression that won't suggest some of the things that this term does for those who don't know to what it refers.

Unity in Christ

 

[Lottedah]

controlling someone is a form of witchcraft so I just call controlling someones will what the bible does.. its not a contradiction at all.. if rebellion and manipulation are as the sin of witchcraft then its witchcraft too. Controlling someone with false prophecies and legalistic rules made up by man is charismatic manipulation and since the bible calls control and manipulation and rebellion as the sin of witchcraft it can also be called witchcraft.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

controlling someone is a form of witchcraft so I just call controlling someones will what the bible does.. its not a contradiction at all.. if rebellion and manipulation are as the sin of witchcraft then its witchcraft too. Controlling someone with false prophecies and legalistic rules made up by man is charismatic manipulation and since the bible calls control and manipulation and rebellion as the sin of witchcraft it can also be called witchcraft.

Lotte,

The point being made is that while it may be people who attend Charastmatic churches doing witchcraft, the activity itself is not "Charasmatic". The term "Charasmatic Witchcraft" gives the impression that all that is truely Charasmatic is witchcraft and it frightens those who are non-Charasmatic and don't understand.

I'm not disbuting that what you have described (controling spirit), is rebellion therefore making it witchcraft. I'm saying that a person who is operating in the gifts of the Holy Spirit is not practicing witchcraft. If a person has a controling spirit they may attend a Charasmatic church and they may speak in tongues, lay hands on the sick, etc., but there is nothing "Charasmatic" about their controlling spirit. Linking the two words, "Charasmatic" and "witchcraft" together gives the impression there is.

That is why I'm objecting to the termonology. One cannot practice witchcraft AND walk in the Holy Ghost. . .according to scripture it is impossible.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

controlling someone is a form of witchcraft so I just call controlling someones will what the bible does.. its not a contradiction at all.. if rebellion and manipulation are as the sin of witchcraft then its witchcraft too. Controlling someone with false prophecies and legalistic rules made up by man is charismatic manipulation and since the bible calls control and manipulation and rebellion as the sin of witchcraft it can also be called witchcraft.

This all goes back to the question of who can be a false prophet?

Mat 7:15-20
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

In this verse, is the false prophet a sheep (born again believer) or is he a inwardly (in his spirit) a wolf (unregenerate person who just wants you to believe he is a sheep)?
A false prophet is always an unbeliever. If he was a sheep (a believer) he would not have to dress up like one! But because he is an wolf(inwardly an unbeliever) he has to try and make you think he is a sheep by acting and looking like one outwardly.
You would not say this wolf was a "Christian wolf", because he is not a Christian. In like manner you could not use the term "charimatic witchcraft" because there is no "witchcraft"(which is of the flesh) in "charimatic" (which if of the Holy Spirit.

The false prophet "Bar-jesus" in acts was a non-believer who tried to turn people from the faith. He was not a believer who was just messing up:

Act 13:6-8
6 And when they had gone through the whole island unto Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Bar-jesus;
7 who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, a man of understanding. The same called unto him Barnabas and Saul, and sought to hear the word of God.
8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn aside the proconsul from the faith.

The key element in any false prophet is that they are unbelievers who try and turn people away from Jesus and the gospel. This is true in every NT instance. They are always non-believers, and they always try and turn people away from the gospel.

Look at Peter's description also. They were false prophets whose end goal was to turn people away from Jesus. This is always the case with true false prophets:
2Pe 2:1
But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

Nothing could be clearer than the passage in 1 John:

1Jo 4:1-3
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 and every spirit that confesseth not Jesus is not of God: and this is the spirit of the antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already.

If you confess that Jesus is come in the flesh, you cannot be a false prophet! You can be mistaken... but that dones not make you a NT false prophet. ALL NT false prophets are unbelievers who deny Jesus and seek to turn people away from Him. Once you see this, you are freed up to seek God and begin to utilitze the wonderful gifts He has given you. You will make mistakes, and perhaps be corrected by the "judges"... but you should never be afraid to speak when the Lord moves upon you.

So what is a Christian who makes false prophesies? He is a misguided believer who is mistaken and needs correction. He technically cannot be a false prophet because in the NT: all false prophets are unbelievers!
All prophecies need to be judged by seasoned members of the 5 fold ministry and determined for corrrectness by content. If some content is incorrect, that dones not make the speaker a false prophet and therefore a wolf. It would have in the OT, but this is not the rule in the NT. Incorrect content by a believer in the NT just means the speaker missed it. That is all. This is so important in the maturing of a congregation. Everyone needs to understand why prophecies need to be judged, and everyone needs to be humble when their prophesy is judged. So many beautiful believers who have so much to share are scared to death to speak because some legalist stuck in the OT mode is sitting there with a tape recorder waiting to find some misspoken word and use it to condemn them. So sad.
There are some good rules to go by in judging prophecies, which, when followed, will eliminate almost all possibility of error. This is not the time or place to get into this. Perhaps in another thread.
(((http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=1682230&postcount=14)))
(((http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=1682267&postcount=15)))
Blessings
Didy

 

[Jim B]

Way back on January 9 drdeancrosby asked:

So the social approval of moral abominations such as homosexuality and multiple marriages for instance,are something we can expect to see alot more of in some churches?

That has caused me to think …

Homosexual behavior is a sin. I think that is a given in this forum. But can a person with a homosexual orientation who remains celibate be a Christian?

For that matter: Can a person with kleptomaniac tendencies but who does not steal be a Christian? Can a soldier who willfully draws a bead on an enemy combatant and kills him be a Christian? Can a struggling alcoholic who does not drink himself drunk every day be a Christian? Can a person who tells lies be a Christian? How about backbiters, income tax cheaters, gluttons, prideful people, cigarette smokers, surfers of internet inappropriate contentography, divorced and remarried people, lustful people, boasters, users of profanity, doctrinal incorrect individuals, sowers of discord, ambitious people, people who lose their temper, etc. take your pick of any moral fault or work of the flesh?

This is an honest question and not meant to stir debate (although, I guess, that is like saying throwing gasoline on a spark is not meant to cause a fire). My point is, since all of us are guilty of “walking in the flesh” or moral lapses from time to time, just what is it that makes Christians who practice any of these sins more or less of a Christian than a celibate but believing homosexual?

Enquiring minds want to know.

For the record, I share the view that homosexuality is a moral flaw. I am concerned, though, that people with that destructive orientation are considered more sinful than people we openly tolerate in our churches who have some of the other characteristics mentioned above. We have, it seems, alienated a segment of our society who truly need our help and love.

Jim
\o/

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Way back on January 9 drdeancrosby asked:


That has caused me to think …

Homosexual behavior is a sin. I think that is a given in this forum. But can a person with a homosexual orientation who remains celibate be a Christian?

For that matter: Can a person with kleptomaniac tendencies but who does not steal be a Christian? Can a soldier who willfully draws a bead on an enemy combatant and kills him be a Christian? Can a struggling alcoholic who does not drink himself drunk every day be a Christian?

This may not go down well with some but this is my take.
Homosexuality, as with all sexual concduct and tendencies, are learned... not inherent. 90% of human sexuality is in the mind. If it is learned, then it can be unlearned. I think many of the "addictions" are also this way too.
These tendencies do not exist in the spirit, that new creature that was born into each believer.
The "body" is pretty much a vehicle powered by chemicals and firing snapes. The battle is in the mind... i.e. the soul.

Psa 41:4
4 I said, LORD, be merciful unto me: heal my soul; for I have sinned against thee.

Needless to say our flesh is with us every day. There are steps we can take to overcome and crucify it... but tempations are going to be there.

Look at what John sums up the world to be:

1Jo 2:16
16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

He also says we can overcome these three aspects of the world:

1Jo 5:4
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.

 

[Jim B]

Very good insights didaskalos. But I may not have made myself clear. I suppose what I want to know is, why are we so bent out of shape about certain kinds of sin in others and not as concerned about those in ourselves are in our friends? Homosexuality is a prime example. Christians that I know are absolutely ready to condemn a homosexual who believes in Christ to hell, quick to remind them of how heinous their sin is, and insisting that they change – immediately! – their orientation before they will be admitted into Christian communion while, at the same time, ignoring more sanctified sins like gossip and gluttony. Do we call church gossips "sinners" and insist that they shut up (I know we should, but do we?) Do we require gluttons to go on a diet before they are allowed into the church?

It just seems we have a double standard for the sins we tolerate. Just seems hypocritical to me.

 

[Faith_04]

That was great what you had to say

 

[cherokeehippie]

Jim! Right on! I feel the same way as you do about this. I can just imagine, if Jesus was here on earth, instead of the story of the good samaritan(and samaritans were known as halfbreeds and very off in their religion and the Pharisees looked down on them), he might have a story about the good leftwinger, who came and picked up an abused homosexual who had been beaten up and abandoned, while the tv evangelist passed him by, not wanting to soil his good reputation ministering to the wounded homosexual and another christian--a rightwing conservative politician came by and said "you deserve to die, god hates homosexuals," and walks on by. Jesus would very much anger the mainstream christian leaders today, just as He did back then!