Mixed Messages.....

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Have you seen a garuntee somewhere that God will infact take care of any who prays for protection? Does bad things that happen suggest that God is not watching? Is He a garuntee that He will intervene? How do you know He has not already protected you from harm and possiblt death?

AT

Maybe not an answer ... but an understanding?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkwIYzp8Sok

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Have any of YOU ever had -- literally -- "the sacred TORN from your life -- and you survive" -?????

Because Moriah has, in the most literal and visceral and all-encompassing way possible.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

He never intended us to eat from the tree that created dualism.

And now, for a response to the song above............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHdcyue0bSw

seriously what else you gonna do? His hand strikes down, His hand raises up. He bes God, we bes not. We have everything in existence we could possibly want or need including darkness and delight and danger if you want that kind of thing, what MORE could He do? A REAL world not a video game one. Where lives count and matter because they can be lost so easily. Where every fiber in the tapestry of reality spells a new lesson, fresh wine for a fresh wineskin.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Stormy,

You don't really believe this do you?

What would be your explanation, then? That those who have suffered deserved to?

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Do you see that as a warning or a threat from God?

Well you dont asks Moriah but it answers you anyway: neither. Neither one. Just an objective statement of fact. Just like if it points to a bottle of lye and says, "this bes made for cleaning -- if you drinksy, you will die."

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Funny thing, they're expecting to see change in us that we believe is not needed......

I digress..........

No you didn't ... not in the slightest.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Well, I don't especially agree. When the aspect of original sin is better seen in it's true light (God's care and love versus Satan's lies and deception), healing can immediately start to begin.

Otherwise we're just left with a "boogeyman" God waiting to pounce, a "tyrant" that must be "appeased."

How pagan.

The alternative being what, then? An absentee, lazy, or simply uncaring God -- or heaven forbid, a sadistic one -- who sits with His arms folded while an alleged murderer and liar in whom supposedly no truth resides runs amok, has His way with us, molests us, twists us, takes some of us hostage, controls some of us even? Whoever heard of "impotent omnipotence"??? it just don't jibe, sorry.*

How pagan indeed. Maybe He lets the devils do His dirty work and He sits there and watches for the LOLz?*

___________________________________
*disclaimer: do not really see God like this, just trying to make a point.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

We as Christians should do what we can to help ease the suffering and right the wrongs we find on this fallen world, until the day of His appearing. We have the promise of a better life, and should be sharing it with others. My 2 cents.

Amen to that.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

It depends what you mean by sin. Separation? The manifest, opposite polarity of light? A cosmic virus? Action against divine will? Incompleteness?

Aren't all those things you mentioned the same thing?

Actually? No.
Separation face to face ensued as part of the act of creation itself. To make man, God had to separate, and make something alive and sentient what bes Not-God.
Separation back to back ensued after they ate the fruit and tasted the flavor of their own unbelief. Immediately they no longer trusted Him, and hid.

The manifest, opposite polarity of light would be darkness, which itself bes created by God. The act of creating light also creates darkness, the concept of what we have where light bes not. God created it, so it cannot be "sin".

A cosmic virus ensued when pain and confusion first arose in Lucifer's experience. Sin truly has no explanation, not even the rebellion of Lucifer because sin CAUSED Lucifer to rebel. The virus spontaneously mutated into existence at the Wrong from the Beginning. (Can go into more detail on this if anyone bes interested but that would be too long for this post)

Action against Divine Will -- you bes kidding right? Does anyone really have so much unbelief that they imagine such a critter even EXISTS in this universe? The entire creation bes subject to God and as such, to His will, period, whether it appears to be so or not, whether we like what we see when we say that or not. Action against Divine Will simply cannot exist, period. Action against Divine Ideal? Of course. That would be .......... Incompleteness. And so we come full circle.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Here's an example demonstrating this ambiguity.

HURRICANE KATRINA

1. Caused by God to punish gays.

2. Caused by sin - or Satan.

3. Caused by low pressure areas and rising water vapor.

Just to pick a nit here ... the description of what a hurricane CONSISTS cannot serve purpose as an explanation of its CAUSE.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Whheeeee all alone talksy to itself!
LOL.
somebody say something nice....

 

[JonMiller]

I Did the same, but not quite as many in a row.

JM

 

[StormyOne]

Whheeeee all alone talksy to itself!
LOL.
somebody say something nice....

thanks Moriah for your comments, you have understood the issues I have raised.....loving parents will not stand by and watch as their child (or children) are harmed or traumatized. Loving parents will not give permission for another person to deliberately harm or kill their children..... yet christians have no problem (apparently) believing that God (Our Father) will do just that.... so there has to be some theological or mental gymnastics to reconcile these two concepts....

 

[Avonia]

Just to pick a nit here ... the description of what a hurricane CONSISTS cannot serve purpose as an explanation of its CAUSE.

This is an illustration of the issue. Warm air is the fuel. What is the cause of the warm air?

Many of our interventions in the world address symptoms and not systems. So it's easier to address a symptom and then attribute it to Satan. Or God. Or gods. Or . . .

 

[Avonia]

Actually? No.
Separation face to face ensued as part of the act of creation itself. To make man, God had to separate, and make something alive and sentient what bes Not-God.
Separation back to back ensued after they ate the fruit and tasted the flavor of their own unbelief. Immediately they no longer trusted Him, and hid.

The manifest, opposite polarity of light would be darkness, which itself bes created by God. The act of creating light also creates darkness, the concept of what we have where light bes not. God created it, so it cannot be "sin".

A cosmic virus ensued when pain and confusion first arose in Lucifer's experience. Sin truly has no explanation, not even the rebellion of Lucifer because sin CAUSED Lucifer to rebel. The virus spontaneously mutated into existence at the Wrong from the Beginning. (Can go into more detail on this if anyone bes interested but that would be too long for this post)

Action against Divine Will -- you bes kidding right? Does anyone really have so much unbelief that they imagine such a critter even EXISTS in this universe? The entire creation bes subject to God and as such, to His will, period, whether it appears to be so or not, whether we like what we see when we say that or not. Action against Divine Will simply cannot exist, period. Action against Divine Ideal? Of course. That would be .......... Incompleteness. And so we come full circle.

Well done.

 

[Avonia]

Action against Divine Will -- you bes kidding right? Does anyone really have so much unbelief that they imagine such a critter even EXISTS in this universe? The entire creation bes subject to God and as such, to His will, period, whether it appears to be so or not, whether we like what we see when we say that or not. Action against Divine Will simply cannot exist, period. Action against Divine Ideal? Of course. That would be .......... Incompleteness. And so we come full circle.

It appears that you have great insight with this and other issues!

It's interesting to hear people talk about breaking God's law. This is impossible. We can only break laws humans have created and attributed to God.

 

[Avonia]

Separation face to face ensued as part of the act of creation itself. To make man, God had to separate

In Lurianic Kabbalah this is described as God withdrawing to make space for the ten emanations - creation.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

questions to stimulate conservation..... I will say that the things christians say about God are not necessarily true...

I agree. However, I note that you've raised some of life's most difficult questions. I suspect that none of us can form coherent responses to them that accurately capture who God is or explain why He does what He does. I would suspect that even if you were to attempt to answer the questions in your OP, your answer would fall short. So perhaps we're all in the same boat when it comes to some of these big questions. We don't understand as much as we think we do.

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

I agree. However, I note that you've raised some of life's most difficult questions. I suspect that none of us can form coherent responses to them that accurately capture who God is or explain why He does what He does. I would suspect that even if you were to attempt to answer the questions in your OP, your answer would fall short. So perhaps we're all in the same boat when it comes to some of these big questions. We don't understand as much as we think we do.

BFA

true, I don't have the answers, but I like to explore the issues.... my point remains though, there are things that people say about God which are not true given what we see around us..... for those who are experiencing suffering, it would be callous to suggest that they have not prayed for relief only to find none... Did God not hear their cries? See their tears? Watch as their lives have been damaged sometimes to the point that normality is only a dream?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

true, I don't have the answers, but I like to explore the issues.... my point remains though, there are things that people say about God which are not true given what we see around us..... for those who are experiencing suffering, it would be callous to suggest that they have not prayed for relief only to find none... Did God not hear their cries? See their tears? Watch as their lives have been damaged sometimes to the point that normality is only a dream?

I certainly don't mean to downplay the point you're making. It is a valuable point.

Rather, I'm merely suggesting that, if anyone does attempt to answer your questions, we realize that such attempt is going to fall short in some way. After all, we're grappling with some things we don't fully understand. And yet we have faith, even though we don't understand.

BFA