Mixed Messages.....

[Byfaithalone1]

not much comfort for those being beat down, homeless, or losing life and limb..... Satan..... I suspect because of some of the answers that have been offered so far that people ignore what christians have to say.....

. . . . what is your take on the images set out in your intial posts? Reconcilable? Irreconcilable? You've asked the hard questions. Now give us those wise answers.

BFA

 

[Avonia]

Otherwise we're just left with a "boogeyman" God waiting to pounce, a "tyrant" that must be "appeased."

You've made no case for this leap - although you may have one and not stated it.

If you stub your toe, neither God as boogeyman nor satan as antagonist is necessary to explain what just happened. Although you are free to ascribe it to either one.

 

[RND]

You've made no case for this leap - although you may have one and not stated it.

Do I need to make a case for the "leap?"

If you stub your toe, neither God as boogeyman nor satan as antagonist is necessary to explain what just happened. Although you are free to ascribe it to either one.

Avonia, how was sin entered into the world?

 

[Avonia]

Do I need to make a case for the "leap?"

It depends on the worldview. I suspect that many things we assign to God or Satan are more attributable to our collective sowing and reaping. People will starve in Heaven too if they have no access to food.

Avonia, how was sin entered into the world?

I have increasingly more questions than answers when it comes to sin.

 

[RND]

It depends on the worldview. I suspect that many things we assign to God or Satan are more attributable to our collective sowing and reaping. People will starve in Heaven too if they have no access to food.

Yet at the heart of the entire matter is sin and rebellion against God.

I have increasingly more questions than answers when it comes to sin.

No doubt. I think it's vital to know how and when sin entered the world. It helps to know that God has always been just and always has looked out for our best interests.

So no "opinion" as to how sin entered the world?

 

[ricker]

an explanation for this?

You kinda sound like my atheist brother.... It's an old tactic to blame God for everything that goes wrong to try to discredit or deny Him.

Sin, suffering and death are all around us. The moment Adam fell, the consequences started to follow. You may argue about why God created a fallible planet, but that is not for us to judge, and impossible anyway.

God does sometimes intervene with what happens on earth, we have all seen it whether we are willing to admit it or not. Many times, I think, He does so by giving us strength to deal with the results of sin on earth. God of course sometimes uses bad things to good ends, but this is not always apparent.

We as Christians should do what we can to help ease the suffering and right the wrongs we find on this fallen world, until the day of His appearing. We have the promise of a better life, and should be sharing it with others. My 2 cents.

 

[Avonia]

So no "opinion" as to how sin entered the world?

It depends what you mean by sin. Separation? The manifest, opposite polarity of light? A cosmic virus? Action against divine will? Incompleteness?

 

[RND]

It depends what you mean by sin. Separation? The manifest, opposite polarity of light? A cosmic virus? Action against divine will? Incompleteness?

Aren't all those things you mentioned the same thing?

 

[Adventtruth]

You've made no case for this leap - although you may have one and not stated it.

If you stub your toe, neither God as boogeyman nor satan as antagonist is necessary to explain what just happened. Although you are free to ascribe it to either one.

Kinda like the lady who broke the heal on her pumps as she entered the church and then blaimed it on Satan.

 

[Adventtruth]

Aren't all those things you mentioned the same thing?

Let me see.

Separation....sin is separation from God.

The manifest, opposite polarity of light....sin is dark, the opposite of light.

A cosmic virus...a corrupting influence on morals or the intellect, poison. Sin


Action against divine will...yes sin.


Incompleteness...sin.


Looks the same to me. But maybe she has another view.

 

[RND]

Thanks for the back-up AT.

 

[Avonia]

Aren't all those things you mentioned the same thing?

Well, they share qualities, but are not at all identical. For instance, a cosmology, like polarities existing below the line of creation, is highly systemic. Slamming the door in someone's face is highly discrete. But the latter doesn't necessarily stem from the former. You might have slammed the door to save their life - but they still have a broken nose, and may or may not ever know the root of the action.

This is important, because many of the things we have done that appeared to be in alignment with Divine Will were not - we couldn't see all that the particular action was connected to from our limited perspective.

As you suggested, many of the mysterious happenings attributed to the gods by various peoples are now well-understood in other ways. This is still true regarding the role of Satan. We haven't come all that far.

Here's an example demonstrating this ambiguity.

HURRICANE KATRINA

1. Caused by God to punish gays.

2. Caused by sin - or Satan.

3. Caused by low pressure areas and rising water vapor.

 

[StormyOne]

You kinda sound like my atheist brother.... It's an old tactic to blame God for everything that goes wrong to try to discredit or deny Him.

Sin, suffering and death are all around us. The moment Adam fell, the consequences started to follow. You may argue about why God created a fallible planet, but that is not for us to judge, and impossible anyway.

God does sometimes intervene with what happens on earth, we have all seen it whether we are willing to admit it or not. Many times, I think, He does so by giving us strength to deal with the results of sin on earth. God of course sometimes uses bad things to good ends, but this is not always apparent.

We as Christians should do what we can to help ease the suffering and right the wrongs we find on this fallen world, until the day of His appearing. We have the promise of a better life, and should be sharing it with others. My 2 cents.

I am not atheist, nor am I blaming God... I submitted for your consideration things that christians say about God, and the reality that we see..... so how do we reconcile the two?

 

[StormyOne]

. . . . what is your take on the images set out in your intial posts? Reconcilable? Irreconcilable? You've asked the hard questions. Now give us those wise answers.

BFA

questions to stimulate conservation..... I will say that the things christians say about God are not necessarily true...

 

[StormyOne]

Some answers seem to suggest that a loving God allows suffering so that those who get through it will appreciate "heaven." Other answers seem to suggest that God allows satan to have his way with humanity, though I am not sure way..... In essence the answers seem to suggestGod is a sadist i.e. He is delighted when humans suffer.....

 

[ricker]

I am not atheist, nor am I blaming God... I submitted for your consideration things that christians say about God, and the reality that we see..... so how do we reconcile the two?

Glad to hear your not an atheist!

I guess I gave you a brief synopsis of how I view God and the suffering in this world.

As far as what some Christians may say about God, as in your quotes, I take no responsibility. Christianity has gone too far towards pop psychiatry and platitudes as far as I am concerned. A lot of what is written is cute or comforting, but theologically vacant.
I guess I don't feel the need to reconcile what others make up.
God bless! Ricker

 

[JonMiller]

On your first post StormyOne, you know that sparrows get killed and eaten and have other horrid things happen quite often.

There are some blessings talked about for this life. But especially the New Testament is focused on an unearthly home.

JM

 

[JonMiller]

To be a bit clear, I think that the horrid things that occur are the result of living in a sinful universe. As long as this universe is still sinful, bad things will happen, to both bad and good people.

And yes, God knows. And someday, God will change the universe, so that it isn't sinful.

As to why He hasn't yet, the general answer is because of free will.

JM

 

[JonMiller]

Avonia, how was sin entered into the world?

Just because sin might have entered into this universe from the devil, doesn't mean that all sin is caused by the devil. If we take humans as they are now, and removed the devil from the scene, than we humans would still sin.

We are the sinners now, and have been since Adam.

JM

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

What then is the point of saying that God cares, God will take care of you, that God watches over you when that is not the case? If God does not intervene, then why pray for protection or deliverance from harm when that may not happen? Your last point suggests then that for people to look forward to (and appreciate) heaven they must experience hell here and now?

So do you think then that all our experience bes purely subjective in this regard? Whether God protects us or not?

You have great courage to raise these questions Stormy.