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Misused Christian beliefs

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by cloudyday2, Jul 28, 2019.

  1. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    There are certain Christian beliefs that caused a lot of problems and worries for me over the years. Maybe some of these beliefs were completely bogus, and others may have been misused, and of course some of them may have been unpleasant truths.

    I thought we might share the beliefs we see as bogus or misused?
     
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  2. Romans 8

    Romans 8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Perhaps you can start by listing some examples? Have you read the bible? You can fact check on your own you know.
     
  3. Yennora

    Yennora Buy the truth and sell it not. Pro 23:23

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    Some of the beliefs that bothered me:

    • Keeping Sunday instead of the Sabbath, claiming that since Christ resurrected on Sunday, then it is the new rest day. I dislike this belief and I believe the Sabbath is the day to be kept.

    • The idea that confession should be done to a priest. I believe if I confess to someone I love, or even to God directly sometimes is enough so long as I have the good intentions and truly regret my actions.

    • The idea that marriage has to be done within the church. I can marry through the state.

    • The idea that Christians cannot marry non-Christians. If it happens that I fall in love with a girl and she turns out to be an Atheist for instance, I will still marry her if she wants me. And I won't bother her with her beliefs since I'm not marrying a religion but a person (and I'm ought to respect her freewill). Of course I'm in deep need to marry a Christian, but if the girl I love is not a Christian this is not the end of the world. (Some religions are exempted though, for example, I cannot marry a satanist or a person that is involved in exorcism or controversial unusual activities, and I also pretty much can hardly marry a Muslim girl because it is dangerous. At least in my country Egypt, many Christian men faced a lot of trouble for dating Muslim women, sometimes it is used as a trap to convert one to Islam and some of them use force and violence, I sadly saw a lot of crap in Egypt, glad I'm out of it)

    • The idea that divorce is always wrong. Divorce can be a life saver sometimes from domestic abuse, and not allowing it is cooperation with the abuser, nothing more. (I heard of stories where the husband used severe violence against his wife because the church is rejecting divorce, and of course they want to stand with their "Christian marriage" so they turn the abused wife away.) -> God said that he wants mercy over sacrifice!
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
  4. Albion

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    • Yet the New Testament is the basis for worship on Sunday. Why people keep talking as though we can just take or leave what we find in the pages of the NT...and still claim that the Bible is the word of God, and an infallible quide, actually mystifies me. But we run into that POV often.

    • That would be a doctrine of Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. It is hardly a tenet of the Christian religion, per se....and it wasn't
    • even a practice in the RCC until the Middle Ages.

    • As a Christian, you still can...and the church will recognize it.

    • The regulations about that vary by denomination, but you can certainly marry a non-Christian. It happens all the time, even in the most traditional denominations.
     
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  5. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Are The Dead Really Dead?

    Adam was created by God in the beginning.
    1. How did we get here in the first place?
    "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7.
    Answer: God made us from dust in the beginning.

    The spirits of both the righteous and the wicked return to God. Their bodies return to dust.
    2. What happens when a person dies?
    "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7.
    Answer: The body turns to dust again, and the spirit goes back to God, who gave it. The spirit of every person who dies--whether righteous or wicked--returns to God at death.

    There is nothing mysterious about the spirit that returns to God at death. It is the breath of life.
    3. What is the "spirit" that returns to God at death?
    "The body without the spirit ["breath," see margin] is dead." James 2:26. "The spirit of God ["the breath which God gave him," see margin] is in my nostrils." Job 27:3.
    Answer: The spirit that returns to God at death is the breath of life. Nowhere in all of God's book does the "spirit" have any life, wisdom, or feeling after a person dies. It is the "breath of life" and nothing more.

    These four people are four souls.
    4. What is a "soul"?
    "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7.
    Answer: A soul is a living being. A soul is always a combination of two things: body plus breath. A soul cannot exist unless body and breath are combined. God's Word teaches that we are souls.

    5. Do souls die?
    "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:20. "Every living soul died in the sea." Revelation 16:3.
    Answer: According to God's Word, souls do die! We are souls, and souls die. Man is mortal (Job 4:17). Only God is immortal (1 Timothy 6:15, 16). The concept of an undying, immortal soul goes against the Bible, which teaches that souls are subject to death.

    6. Do good people go to heaven when they die?
    "All that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth." John 5:28, 29. "David ... is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day." "For David is not ascended into the heavens." Acts 2:29, 34. "If I wait, the grave is mine house." Job 17:13.
    Answer: No, people do not go either to heaven or hell at death. They go to their graves to await the resurrection day.

    7. How much does one know or comprehend after death?
    "The living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." "There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10. "The dead praise not the Lord." Psalms 115:17.
    Answer: God says that the dead know absolutely nothing!

    Though millions think it is possible, the dead cannot communicate with the living.
    8. But can't the dead communicate with the living, and aren't they aware of what the living are doing?
    "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." "His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them." Job 14:12, 21. "Neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." Ecclesiastes 9:6.
    Answer: No, the dead cannot contact the living, nor do they know what the living are doing. They are dead. Their thoughts have perished (Psalms 146:4).

    Jesus calls death "sleep." It is a state of total unconsciousness.
    9. Jesus called the unconscious state of the dead "sleep" in John 11:11-14. How long will they sleep?
    "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Job 14:12.

    "The day of the Lord will come ... in the which the heavens shall pass away." 2 Peter 3:10.
    Answer: The dead will sleep until the great day of the Lord at the end of the world. In death, humans are totally unconscious with no activity or knowledge of any kind.

    The righteous will be raised to life and given immortality at Jesus' second coming.
    10. What happens to the righteous dead at the second coming of Christ?
    "Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." Revelation 22:12. "The Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, ... and the dead in Christ shall rise ... and so shall we ever be with the Lord." 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17. "We shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, ... and the dead shall be raised incorruptible. ... For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." 1 Corinthians 15:51-53.
    Answer: They will be rewarded. They will be raised, given immortal bodies, and caught up to meet the Lord in the air. There would be no purpose in a resurrection if people were taken to heaven at death.

    The devil's first lie to Eve was "You won't die" - a statement completely contrary to all Scripture.
    11. What was the devil's first lie?
    "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die." Genesis 3:4. "That old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan." Revelation 12:9.
    Answer: Satan told Eve that sin would not bring death. "Ye shall not surely die," he said.

    Those who believe the dead are alive become easy targets for the devil's deceptions.
    12. Why did the devil lie to Eve about death? Could this subject be more important than many think?

    Answer: It is one of the cornerstones of the devil's kingdom. He has worked powerful miracles down through the ages through people who claim to receive their power from the spirits of the dead. (Examples: Magicians of Egypt Exodus 7:11, Woman of Endor 1 Samuel 28:3-25, Sorcerers Daniel 2:2, A certain damsel Acts 16:16-18.)

    A Solemn Warning
    In the end-time Satan will again use sorcery as he did in Daniel's day to deceive the world (Revelation 18:23). Sorcery is a supernatural agency that claims to receive its power and wisdom from the spirits of the dead.

    Posing as Jesus' Disciples
    Posing as godly loved ones who have died, saintly clergymen who are now dead, Bible prophets, or even the apostles or disciples of Christ (2 Corinthians 11:13), Satan and his angels will deceive billions. Those who believe the dead are alive, in any form, will most assuredly be deceived.

    All miracle working is not from God, because devils also work miracles.
    13. Do devils really work miracles?
    "They are the spirits of devils, working miracles." Revelation 16:14. "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Matthew 24:24.
    Answer: Yes, indeed! Devils work incredibly convincing miracles (Revelation 13:13, 14). Satan and his angels will appear as angels of light (2 Corinthians 11:14) and, even more shocking, as Christ Himself (Matthew 24:23, 24). The universal feeling will be that Christ and His angels are leading out in a fantastic worldwide revival. The entire emphasis will seem so spiritual and be so supernatural that only God's elect will not be deceived.

    The elect will not be deceived, because they firmly reject everything that is contrary to Scripture.
    14. Why will God's people not be deceived?
    "They received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." Acts 17:11. "If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Isaiah 8:20.
    Answer: God's people will know from their earnest study of His book that the dead are dead, not alive. Spirits of the dead do not exist. Therefore, God's people will reject all miracle workers and teachers who claim to receive special "light" or work miracles by contacting the spirits of the dead. And God's people will likewise reject as dangerous and false all teachings that claim the dead are alive in any form, anywhere.

    In Moses' day, people who claimed power to communicate with the dead were stoned to death.
    15. Back in Moses' day, what did God command should be done to people who taught that the dead were alive?
    "A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones." Leviticus 20:27.
    Answer: God insisted that wizards and others with "familiar spirits" (who claimed to be able to contact the dead) should be stoned to death. This shows how God regards the false teaching that the dead are alive.

    No one in God's new kingdom will ever die. Death will cease at the destruction of Satan.
    16. Will the righteous people who are raised in the resurrection ever die again?
    "They which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, ... Neither can they die any more." Luke 20:35, 36. "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain; for the former things are passed away." Revelation 21:4.
    Answer: No! Death, sorrow, crying, and tragedy will never enter into God's new kingdom.

    Reincarnation is impossible. Because God says all who died, both good and evil, are in their graves.
    17. Belief in reincarnation is expanding rapidly today. Is this teaching biblical?
    "The living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing. ... Neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6.
    Answer: Almost half the people on earth believe in reincarnation, a teaching that the soul never dies but is instead continually reborn in a different kind of body with each succeeding generation. This teaching, however, is contrary to Scripture.

    The Bible Says
    After death a person: returns to dust (Psalms 104:29), knows nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5), possesses no mental powers (Psalms 146:4), has nothing to do with anything on earth (Ecclesiastes 9:6), does not live (2 Kings 20:1), waits in the grave (Job 17:13), and continues not (Job 14:1, 2).

    Satan's Invention
    We learned in questions 11 and 12 that Satan invented the teaching that the dead are alive. Reincarnation, channeling, communication with spirits, spirit worship, and the "undying soul" are all inventions of Satan, with one aim to convince people that when you die you are not really dead. When people believe that the dead are alive, "spirits of devils, working miracles" (Revelation 16:14) and posing as spirits of the dead will be able to deceive and lead them astray virtually 100 percent of the time (Matthew 24:24).

    Those who insist on Scripture proof for all doctrines will not be led astray by Satan.
    18. I am thankful for the Bible, which tells us the truth on this sensitive subject of death.

    Answer:


    THOUGHT QUESTIONS


    1. Didn't the thief on the cross go to paradise with Christ the day He died?
    No. In fact, on Sunday morning Jesus said to Mary, "I am not yet ascended to my Father." John 20:17. This shows that Christ did not go to heaven at death. Also note that the punctuation of the Bible is not inspired, but was added by men. The comma in Luke 23:43 should be placed after the words "to day" rather than before, so the passage should read, "Verily I say unto thee to day, shalt thou be with me in paradise." Or, "I'm telling you today--when it seems that I can save no one, when I myself am being crucified as a criminal--I give you the assurance today that you will be with me in paradise." Christ's kingdom is set up at His second coming (Matthew 25:31), and all the righteous of all ages will enter it at that time (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) and not at death.

    2. Doesn't the Bible speak of the "undying," "immortal" soul?
    No, the undying, immortal soul is not mentioned in the Bible. The word "immortal" is found only once in the Bible, and it is in reference to God (1 Timothy 1:17).

    3. At death the body returns to dust and the spirit (or breath) returns to God. But where does the soul go?
    It goes nowhere. Instead, it simply ceases to exist. Two things must be combined to make a soul: body and breath. When the breath departs, the soul ceases to exist because it is a combination of two things. When you turn off a light, where does the light go? It doesn't go anywhere. It just ceases to exist. Two things must combine to make a light: a bulb and electricity. Without the combination, a light is impossible. So with the soul; unless body and breath are combined, there can be no soul. There is no such thing as a disembodied soul.

    4. Does the word "soul" ever mean anything other than a living being?
    Yes, it may mean also (1) life itself, or (2) the mind, or intellect. No matter which meaning is intended, the soul is still a combination of two things (body and breath), and it ceases to exist at death.

    5. Can you explain John 11:26, which says, "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die"?
    This refers not to the first death, which all people die (Hebrews 9:27), but to the second death, which only the wicked die and from which there is no resurrection (Revelation 2:11; 21:8).

    6. Matthew 10:28 says, "Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul." Doesn't this prove that the soul is undying?
    No, it proves the opposite. The last half of the same verse proves that souls do die. It says, "But rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." The word "soul" here means life and refers to eternal life, which is a gift (Romans 6:23) that will be given to the righteous at the last day (John 6:54). No one can take away the eternal life that God bestows. (See also Luke 12:4, 5.)

    7. Doesn't 1 Peter 4:6 say the gospel was preached to dead people?
    No, it says the gospel "was" preached to those who "are" dead. They are dead now, but the gospel "was" preached to them while they were yet living.

    8. What about the souls crying out from under the altar in Revelation 6:9, 10? Doesn't this show that souls do not die?
    No. This cry was figurative, as was the cry of Abel's blood (Genesis 4:10). The word "soul" here means people (or living beings) who had been slain for their faith. Surely no one believes that souls who die literally lie under the altar, nor do people believe that the righteous beg God to punish their enemies. Rather, the righteous beg for mercy for their enemies, as Christ did on the cross (Luke 23:34).

    9. Doesn't the Bible say Christ went and preached to lost souls in hell between His crucifixion and resurrection?
    No, the Bible passage in question is 1 Peter 3:18-20. The preaching was done "by the Spirit" (verse 18) in Noah's day--to people who were then living (verses 19, 20). The "spirits in prison" refers to people whose lives were in bondage to Satan. (See Psalms 142:7; Isaiah 42:6, 7; 61:1; and Luke 4:18.)
     
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  6. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Where did that cut and paste come from?
     
  7. Akita Suggagaki

    Akita Suggagaki Well-Known Member

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    Ya, really.

    I am thinking more about the requirement to attend Sunday Mass under penalty of mortal sin. I mean wow!

    It seeemd to me the priests and Bishops came up with that one for job security. Got to go to Mass and for Mass we got to have priests.

    So now we have people obsessed with it. How many of you know elderly people with will go out in the worst of winter for fear of missing Mass and mortal sin?
     
  8. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    Yep, I have read the Bible. I was raised in the Episcopal Church (Anglican), but I was also exposed to the Evangelical denominations through childhood friends and that was where I learned of the doctrines that disturbed me.

    Here is a list of things that caused me the most worries:
    - End Times / Revelation : I worried that I was the Antichrist each time I read about him LOL
    - Unforgivable Sin : I worried that I might have committed that sin even though I wasn't certain what it was
    - Hell and Salvation : I worried that I wasn't "born again" or "saved" because I didn't feel any different
    - Gifts of the Holy Spirit : I worried that I had no gifts of the Holy Spirit and therefore was not "saved"
    - Fate of Non-Christians : The idea that people in Christian cultures mostly go to heaven while others go to hell seemed immoral.

    Those are the biggies as I recall.
     
  9. Romans 8

    Romans 8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Interesting. I can almost assure you that you're not the antichrist ;)
    Committing the unpardonable sin isn't possible, only at the time that Jesus was incarnate.
    Born again doesn't have anything to do with feelings. It means that you trust in Jesus as your saviour lived a sinless life, that he is the son of God (God incarnate) and that he was raised from the dead on the third day, and is now sitting at the right and of God.
    Gifts of the Holy Spirit/Baptism of the Holy Spirit; this one is confusing. We get sealed with God's Spirit when we become born again. We do not need to speak in tongues or get baptized in the Holy Spirit to be saved. But it is what every Christian should aspire to. I think more Christians are cessationists than those who believe in the gifts today. Many that believe in the gifts today have been deluded by the fake church (Bethel) and false teachers such as Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, Keneth Copeland, etc.
    Heaven/Hell: God tells us in the bible that His mind is not our mind. That His mind is higher than ours. The truth is that you will not see true healing in any other religion, nor will you see true deliverance. The proof is in the pudding my friend. I am a firm believer in the gifts of the Holt Spirit.
     
  10. dlamberth

    dlamberth Senior Contributor Supporter

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    - The Original Sin/Fall story
    - God separate from this Creation
    - A Judgmental God.
    - One True Wayism
    - Getting Saved
    - Hell
    - Satan
    - God needing a sacrifice for forgiveness.
     
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  11. holo

    holo former Christian

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    Hell, obviously.

    Marriage, the whole idea that entering into marriage has anything to do with priests and churches.

    The idea of having priests.

    A big one is the misunderstanding that Jesus was a Christian. So many people assume that Christianity started with Jesus' birth, rather than his resurrection (or maybe more correctly on Pentecost).

    The idea that church is a building.
     
  12. holo

    holo former Christian

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    Oh yeah. I lost faith before I got to really get into the whole Satan thing, but it's been brought to my fleeting attention that the snake in the garden, Satan, Lucifer, the accuser of the brethren and the Beast (maybe?) probably isn't one and the same.
     
  13. dlamberth

    dlamberth Senior Contributor Supporter

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    The first followers of Jesus were all Jewish. And any ideas of Original Sin was not a concept for Jews back in those days.
     
  14. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    Another belief that seems misused is the idea that anything or anybody outside Christianity is potentially dangerous. For example, some Christians fear the practice of meditation, because it so important in Buddhism.
     
  15. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I'd say the first two are things that few Christians would have said you should worry about
    You'd have to be pretty spectacularly bad for this to be true. No, this is a character that's part of an end-times scenario.
    I'm sure you've noticed that a number of people are worried about this. Pretty much everybody thinks that if you're worried about it, you can't have committed it.

    But now we start getting a bit closer.
    If you've read widely in this site, you'll see that lots of people are worried about whether they're saved, and even more are claiming that almost no one but them is.
    There's already been a response that's relevant: being born again isn't about feeling saved. But there are a couple of things about this passage you may not be aware of
    * The same word means "above" and "again." It's a pretty common motif in John that people don't understand Jesus. It's very likely that he meant "from above" but was misunderstood to mean "again."
    * The passage in John actually associates it with baptism ("water and the spirit" is hard to miss).

    Remember, Jesus calls God our Father. Being Jesus' followers make us God's children, born from above. There's no reason to think it's a separate thing.
    Paul has a nice passage on different gifts in 1 Cor 12. Most people have one, but at any rate, he says that greatest gift is love, and we can all have that.
    Yup. You'd never realize it from CF, but at least half of Christians don't think all non-Christians are damned. Beyond that I'm not sure we can discuss in this group. A lot us think most people will end up with God, although perhaps somewhat singed. (1 Cor 3:12, though not everyone agrees that this applies to non-Christians)
     
  16. Romans 8

    Romans 8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's news to me. Interesting, I wonder how these rumors are spread? Maybe in forums online? :ebil:

    Christians that I know don't fear other people of other religions. We do not practice meditation however based on the fact that it's demon worship.
     
  17. holo

    holo former Christian

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    Forgot about that one :)

    Misguided, misused, wrong, very destructive.
     
  18. Akita Suggagaki

    Akita Suggagaki Well-Known Member

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    Hope you are joking. It is hard to tell on a forum.
     
  19. dlamberth

    dlamberth Senior Contributor Supporter

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    What to me was a clear bogus and maybe even a miss-use of Christian beliefs was my wife being told and pressured extensively that she would end up in Hell if she married me because of my beliefs. True Story. We've been married for 38 years now. My wife is my best friend and I love her dearly.
     
  20. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    Apparently some Essenes believed that people were either children of light or children of darkness. Some Essenes believed in freewill and some did not. (The Qumran Essenes did not believe in freewill.)

    So is Jesus gathering people who are ALREADY born from above (at birth) or is Jesus exhorting people to BECOME born from above somehow (through baptism or repentance or joining a Christian group)?

    Also if Jesus can be misunderstood by an audience he knows intimately then we must ask why? "Those who have ears" was a phrase used by Jesus suggesting that his teachings could only be understood by people who were already in a certain state of receptiveness. That is kind of troubling if the stakes are heaven and hell.
     
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