Missing the Point?

[tigerboy]

Romans 8:5
"For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh. but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."


what does this have to do with anything you might ask?

well...i've been visiting this forum for a little while now, and it seems to me that the worship section is the most shallow. this pains me because i love to worship God...but here we are, near the bottom of the list of forums, and do you know why? most of the posts on here are missing the point.

most of the discussion on here centers around jeremy camp's voice, mercy me solo projects and whether or not your church allows guitar solos. if not that then "when was the last time you felt a tingle in your hands during a worship time at church?" it's really pathetic.

think about that verse in Romans. this forum is more interested in the fleshly things...instruments, style, whose songs you are playing. in actuality, we are more interested in the form of worship, or the fleshly side of it, than the spiritual.

imagine a group of you went to the white house in a car. on the way there you focused solely on the car and it's performance. you talked about the car. you smiled when the car ran really smoothly. you grimaced when the gearbox crunched. then you get to the whitehouse, and as the president walks out to meet you, you ignore him and talk amongst yourselves about how great the car is. you compare notes about the car, asking what kind of car each other drives. does your car take unleaded or diesel fuel? what about emissions. do you have leather seats? cd or cassette player? all the while, the president stands there waiting for someone to say hi. but no one does, so he turns around and goes back into his house, a little upset that the people he wanted to meet wouldn't even acknowledge him.

that's what we do. worship is NOT music. it is an attitude of the heart. music is a vehicle that helps us to create an attitude, but music in itself is NOT worship. unfortunately, worship music has been 'genre-fied' and seized upon by marketing executives...why do you think every tom, dick, and harry are making 'worship' cd's now? it's a marketing ploy.

we need to have more discussion here about the reality of worship and some biblical truths. c'mon guys, we can do better than this. He deserves it.

 

[Religious Crisis]

well...i've been visiting this forum for a little while now, and it seems to me that the worship section is the most shallow. this pains me because i love to worship God...but here we are, near the bottom of the list of forums, and do you know why? most of the posts on here are missing the point.

Where the forum is posted has nothing to do with the posts, forums are placed where they are because almost all new catagories are place on the bottom because not as many members participate in discussions about them.

most of the discussion on here centers around jeremy camp's voice, mercy me solo projects and whether or not your church allows guitar solos. if not that then "when was the last time you felt a tingle in your hands during a worship time at church?" it's really pathetic.

think about that verse in Romans. this forum is more interested in the fleshly things...instruments, style, whose songs you are playing. in actuality, we are more interested in the form of worship, or the fleshly side of it, than the spiritual.

imagine a group of you went to the white house in a car. on the way there you focused solely on the car and it's performance. you talked about the car. you smiled when the car ran really smoothly. you grimaced when the gearbox crunched. then you get to the whitehouse, and as the president walks out to meet you, you ignore him and talk amongst yourselves about how great the car is. you compare notes about the car, asking what kind of car each other drives. does your car take unleaded or diesel fuel? what about emissions. do you have leather seats? cd or cassette player? all the while, the president stands there waiting for someone to say hi. but no one does, so he turns around and goes back into his house, a little upset that the people he wanted to meet wouldn't even acknowledge him.

that's what we do. worship is NOT music. it is an attitude of the heart. music is a vehicle that helps us to create an attitude, but music in itself is NOT worship. unfortunately, worship music has been 'genre-fied' and seized upon by marketing executives...why do you think every tom, dick, and harry are making 'worship' cd's now? it's a marketing ploy.

we need to have more discussion here about the reality of worship and some biblical truths. c'mon guys, we can do better than this. He deserves it.

I see no threads started by you about the reality of worship, it is a bit hypocritical for you to tell us that we are wrong and what we need to do when you are not doing it yourself.

 

[tigerboy]

it's interesting that the first reply is defensive and critical. please don't be offended. look, i'm not taking potshots here... i'm trying to encourage us into some more meaningful discussion. don't worry, i will be making some posts that have a little deeper conversation. it will be interesting to see how long they stay near the top of the board. in actual fact, this is the first one. my whole post was about the reality of worship and what it really is. this isn't about people telling people who is right or wrong. it's about what does the Bible say, and how do our discussions line up with that?

i just find it interesting that the worship section is included under 'music.' is that completely appropriate?

oh yeah, it's also after 'christian rpg.' maybe we should lobby for it's inclusion higher up the board? The Westminster Catechism says that the chief end of man is to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever. worship is our primary purpose. maybe more people should be discussing their worship lives. it's the most important thing we can do.

 

[Laserman]

Tigerboy,

The Westminster Confession, Hmmmm. Are you a fellow Presbyterian by any chance? I see where you are going with this, I think. Your'e right. Worship is more than just singing. It's singing, prayer, offerings,congregational recitations, Administration of Ordinaces or sacraments , preaching and teaching. I have not been here long enough to know the subject matter of the most recent post, but it could always be alittle deeper I guess. Lately, I've been praying just before our service starts that the Lord will open my eyes and heart and keep them off my self during worship. I find this helps my attitude alot and helps me worship God instead of fault finding with others, the church, the music ect ect. I'm seeking a deeper experience during corporate worship if I can just get myself out of the way. It's hard to grasp but we come to worship God, not to get something out of it for ourselves.



Barry

 

[tigerboy]

i'm not a presbyterian i'm afraid. but i do believe that there is a subtle corruption going on in worship circles, and that is "quality of worship experience depends on what tunes/style/instruments you play."


i don't even know what a worship 'experience' means. this is not a rock concert. we don't worship to gain a warm and fuzzy feeling. neither is worship spiritual prozac where we check out of life for half an hour. worship is about giving God the glory He is due. i don't care if it's hymns, vineyard music, or heavy metal...it doesn't count for squat if your heart is set on yourself, or if your thoughts are all about who has the hottest cd this week. that might offend some people, but it's true.

worship is on God's terms. it is not about personal preference. Saul found this out when he made a burnt offering to the Lord. the problem was, he didn't follow the instructions but decided to do it his way because that's what he wanted to do. then samuel turns up and says 'well, God was going to establish your throne forever, but not anymore because you're too worried about what satisfies you.' if we are not careful, we could seriously offend the Holy Spirit with our constant hyping of contemporary versus traditional, the glorifying of christian 'stars' (ridiculous!), and behavng as if worshipping the Lord is one big pop concert.

on the other hand, genuine humility, a desire to use songs that appeal to the whole church and are accessible to everyone, and a heart to go beyond the song and worship God from deep in our hearts will always win the day. i don't want to meet jeremy camp or mercy me or chris tomlin. i want to meet God.

 

[tigerboy]

as i thought, no one is really that interested in discussing this. ah well...at least the worship leaders thread has some substance to it.

 

[superbear02]

This is my first time here but tigerboy has a point that we're here to glorify God and praise and worship means PRAISE and WORSHIP.... (not focus on what someone's voice sounds like, ect...)

 

[robl]

as i thought, no one is really that interested in discussing this. ah well...at least the worship leaders thread has some substance to it.

I would be glad to discuss worshipping our Lord and Savior with you. I worship Him throughout the day, regardless of whether or not music is involved. It is a lifestyle, not a song. I love to worship in music, through playing, singing or listening. I worship with any style of music, as long as it lyrically is worshiping God. I look forward to worshipping beside you in eternity!

 

[yod]

There is something to this....


I noticed about the same time that DC Talk came out with Jesus Freak (1996) that there was a subtle change in the audiences I was seeing. They were more interested in style than substance.

 

[Street-Preacher]

Do you think there is such thing as christian rock?
i think there is rock, but not christian rock.
you see, the Bible says that the Holy Spirit exalts Jesus Christ, meaning, He will glorify Him. Rock is idolatry my friend, just like cars and anything that you put before the Lord Jesus Christ. No christian rock song has Bible quotes in it. christian rock songs are idolatry. The only way to worship and praise God is with your personal lifestyle.
Joshua 1:7-8