Missing soldiers reportedly found dead

[Patzak]

That isn't the point. America is being accused of torture for putting panties on prisoners heads and there is outrage.

I seem to recall some cases were much worse than that. Like the guy that died for example. Anyhow, I would agree that the outrage of the Iraqis was largely hypocritical (although it's understandable that the occupying power that claims benevolence is held to higher standards). The outrage of the West, however, wasn't. If my country had done something like that, I would definitely be outraged, no matter what goes on elsewhere. You, on the other hand, don't seem to mind, as long as there's somebody worse out there. And you try to minimize the violations by conveniently overlooking every aspect besides humiliation (though that in itself is not something to be proud of). So, in your opinion, where does it stop? What would the US have to do for you to be outraged?

AI is another Marxist, anti-America, hate freedom and capitalism group. Their silence on this event reveals them for what they are.

It would be great if you were able to actually support your allegations. So far, all we have are your baseless opinions - if you want to "expose their hypocricy", you'll have to do better than that.

Also, I stumbled upon the following:

Amnesty International extends its sincerest condolences to the families of Pfc. Kristian Menchaca and Pfc. Thomas L. Tucker for their tragic loss. We are deeply disturbed by reports that these two soldiers were brutally tortured. These reports, if proven true, may rise to the level of war crimes.

You can check out the link for the rest of the article.

 

[MachZer0]

Nope we shouldn't hunt them down.
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Hey you all wanted a war....well now we have one.

So why shouldn't we just allow the seven Americans accused of killing the disabled Iraqi go free, without charges?

 

[MachZer0]

I seem to recall some cases were much worse than that. Like the guy that died for example. Anyhow, I would agree that the outrage of the Iraqis was largely hypocritical (although it's understandable that the occupying power that claims benevolence is held to higher standards). The outrage of the West, however, wasn't. If my country had done something like that, I would definitely be outraged, no matter what goes on elsewhere. You, on the other hand, don't seem to mind, as long as there's somebody worse out there. And you try to minimize the violations by conveniently overlooking every aspect besides humiliation (though that in itself is not something to be proud of). So, in your opinion, where does it stop? What would the US have to do for you to be outraged?

When the Abu Ghraib story broke, there were calls (from Americans) for Bush's impeachment, trials for war crimes etc. So to say that there was no outrage in America is just false. Any incidents related to alleged torture by Americans were investigated and people were put on trial and are currently (currently, at least some) in prison.

It would be great if you were able to actually support your allegations. So far, all we have are your baseless opinions - if you want to "expose their hypocricy", you'll have to do better than that.

I believe Amnesty's record speaks for itself

Also, I stumbled upon the following:

You can check out the link for the rest of the article.

You can just feel the outrage can't you? Two men were captured, tortured, beheaded and their bodies dumped, and AI says that if true (as if there is any doubt), it MAY rise to the level of war crimes. But not for sure I guess. I suppose we can wait until we find out if the detached heads were found with panties on them, then we'll know for sure that this rises to the level of war crimes.

 

[Patzak]

When the Abu Ghraib story broke, there were calls (from Americans) for Bush's impeachment, trials for war crimes etc. So to say that there was no outrage in America is just false. Any incidents related to alleged torture by Americans were investigated and people were put on trial and are currently (currently, at least some) in prison.

Firstly, "from Americans" does not mean "from Amnesty International". You might be right, but please provide a source. Secondly, I never said there was no outrage in America. There was and I'm glad there was since it indicates a high general awareness of the importance of human rights.
I agree that the Abu Ghraib case is more or less closed. Again, please point out where the AI has insisted on bringing it up after the investigation has been concluded.

I believe Amnesty's record speaks for itself

Well, point out some cases which you believe indicate that they are anti-American, Marxist, leftist, freedom-hating or whatever you claim them to be. All I can come up with if I look at their current initiatives are general campaigns against abuses and specific campaigns directed at Bangladesh, Jordan, Jamaica and Syria. Where's the rampant anti-Americanism? Probably in that one time a couple months ago when they dared to point out that not everything was completely peachy in the US? Really, if you want to support your claims, you'll have to come up with something.

You can just feel the outrage can't you? Two men were captured, tortured, beheaded and their bodies dumped, and AI says that if true (as if there is any doubt), it MAY rise to the level of war crimes. But not for sure I guess. I suppose we can wait until we find out if the detached heads were found with panties on them, then we'll know for sure that this rises to the level of war crimes.

Compare it to any other of their articles and you'll see that they're all (including those that condemn the US over Guantanamo) very level-headed. So what should they do? WRITE IN ALL CAPS? Use colourful language and describe the torture in minute detail?

You wanted a statement of condemnation and indeed it turned out they issued one. But you've made up your mind about them a long time ago, you know they're evil, anti-American and Marxist, though you can't seem to be able to provide any backing for your opinions. You indict the AI on the specific case of being SILENT on this particular incident and when it turns out that they do condemn it, you proclaim that they don't condemn it loudly enough. And if they screamed with outrage, you'd probably take it as "evidence of their hypocrisy" since they can't possibly really mean it because they're defined as pro-terrorist or whatever. I'm sorry, but if you're totally unable to honestly assess something you disagree with, I don't think we have much left to discuss.

 

[TheBear]

Nope we shouldn't hunt them down.
Live by the sword, die by the sword.

By that standard, you would have no problem with us starting to mutilate and behead the detainees. Actually, I kind of like that idea. For every US serviceman mutilated and beheaded, we mutilate and behead a detainee......and even videotape it and put it on a website. Then, dump their body parts in a trash dumpster. I'm liking it more and more!

Thanks for the great idea!




ETA - On second thought, the men who did this, 'lived by the sword'. Therefore, by your own logic, they should be hunted down and die in the same manner.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

I hear it was the simple trick to devert forces to a deversion, and attack the true objective.

The forces, need to realize, there is no surrender. Torture and death is the only thing surrender brings.

We are not fighting a force controlled by ANY rules of war.

I think they forget the second part of leadership and that's troop welfare.

 

[IndigoRose7]

So why shouldn't we just allow the seven Americans accused of killing the disabled Iraqi go free, without charges?

Let's be honest here, Sir. You know the Americans accused will get a trial and most likely have it "easy". Those whom you suggest we "hunt down" would not have it so easy. That is the truth!

 

[IndigoRose7]

By that standard, you would have no problem with us starting to mutilate and behead the detainees. Actually, I kind of like that idea. For every US serviceman mutilated and beheaded, we mutilate and behead a detainee......and even videotape it and put it on a website. Then, dump their body parts in a trash dumpster. I'm liking it more and more!

Thanks for the great idea!


ETA - On second thought, the men who did this, 'lived by the sword'. Therefore, by your own logic, they should be hunted down and die in the same manner.

Thank you for proving how inhumane your group is at it's core.
"Justice for Americans"....screw everybody else!!
Wow, now that is truly Christian.
No, let me THANK YOU for revealing yourself and your kind!!!

 

[IndigoRose7]

The next time a criminal in the U.S. is beat down from the cops for running from them, shut your liberal ass whining up about police brutality.

Please forgive me but your comment is not logical. It does not make any sense. As for you telling me, "shut your liberal ass"....hmmm....that is really a very kind thing to say. I see why your group supports this war... nothing but a bunch of bullies here!

 

[Yusuf Evans]

Please forgive me but your comment is not logical. It does not make any sense. As for you telling me, "shut your liberal ass"....hmmm....that is really a very kind thing to say. I see why your group supports this war... nothing but a bunch of bullies here!

See the icon, it says Indy. This means I don't show loyaltly to a particular party. I stated what I said because I'm a U.S. Marine and it matters to me what happens to U.S. troops. The analogy I used ties along with what you said, "You live by the sword, you die by the sword."

 

[IndigoRose7]

See the icon, it says Indy. This means I don't show loyaltly to a particular party. I stated what I said because I'm a U.S. Marine and it matters to me what happens to U.S. troops. The analogy I used ties along with what you said, "You live by the sword, you die by the sword."

Those words aren't mine, Sir...but the Lord's.

Then Jesus *said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword.
The New American Standard Bible, (La Habra, California: The Lockman Foundation) 1977.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

Those words aren't mine, Sir...but the Lord's.

Then Jesus *said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword.
The New American Standard Bible, (La Habra, California: The Lockman Foundation) 1977.

Christ also one should buy a sword or two. However, you justified it as saying that the enemy we're fighting does not deserve to die, but rather the U.S. military.

Christ also said that "No greater love than a man who lays his life down for his friends." That's who my fellow servicemembers are dying for, not for the politicians. So when they are tortured and murdered, I take it personally.

 

[IndigoRose7]

Christ also one should buy a sword or two. However, you justified it as saying that the enemy we're fighting does not deserve to die, but rather the U.S. military.

Christ also said that "No greater love than a man who lays his life down for his friends." That's who my fellow servicemembers are dying for, not for the politicians. So when they are tortured and murdered, I take it personally.

Enemy? The people of Iraq are our enemies? Why?
As for the US military, you should be offended that the US government has taken good men and women, like you, who are willing to fight for America and put them into a bogus War.
This is NOT about defending American soil, but about gaining OIL so that rich greedy men may only become richer, and more powerful.

As for taking it "personally" that our soldiers are dying I think you really need to step back here. Don't you think the innocent children and civilians who are murdered by US soliders deserve a voice?
Are they not valuable in the eyes of the Creator?
I don't wish harm on our Soldiers...I pray for them. I feel they have been betrayed, and they stand fighting the wrong enemy. The real enemy is within......it is our Government.

Peace

 

[k]

You didn't answer the question.

Try to set aside the anti-Bush, anti-war fever before answering.

Two US servicemen were brutally and savagely tortured, mutilated and beheaded. Their body parts were then dumped outside of Baghdad.

Should we hunt down the men who did this? Yes or no?

The question was answered.

 

[k]

To that I say, the alleged killers are under arrest pending a trial. The question remains, should we hunt down the men who brutally killed our two soldiers or not? Funny that nobody wants to answer that question. Hmmmm

I will answer "Yes" to that question when I see a "Yes" to this question:

Should Iraqis go after the Nation who has murdered hundreds of thousands of its Civillians?

 

[k]

I hear it was the simple trick to devert forces to a deversion, and attack the true objective.

The forces, need to realize, there is no surrender. Torture and death is the only thing surrender brings.

We are not fighting a force controlled by ANY rules of war.

That's because the US CREATED a War without any rules. This does not excuse the behaviour on anyone's part but to try and claim the Resistance is fighting without rules while ignoring how many rules the US violated, including the invasion itself, is a bit strange, IMAO.

 

[TheBear]

Thank you for proving how inhumane your group is at it's core.

My 'group'? And just who who do you assume that 'group' is? You have no idea who you're dealing with. I do not speak for any 'group'. Your contempt is with me, not any 'group'. Should others agree, so be it. But, don't use this as an opportunity to broadbrush any 'group'. Deal with me.

"Justice for Americans"....screw everybody else!!
Wow, now that is truly Christian.

Don't put words in my mouth, and don't ascribe your religious tenets to me. Again, you have no idea who you're dealing with.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

As for taking it "personally" that our soldiers are dying I think you really need to step back here. Don't you think the innocent children and civilians who are murdered by US soliders deserve a voice?

Wait a second. One minute your saying that the U.S. soldiers have been betrayed as if you care about us, and then in the very same breath you are calling us baby killers.

 

[IndigoRose7]

My 'group'? And just who who do you assume that 'group' is? You have no idea who you're dealing with. I do not speak for any 'group'. Your contempt is with me, not any 'group'. Should others agree, so be it. But, don't use this as an opportunity to broadbrush any 'group'. Deal with me.

Don't put words in my mouth, and don't ascribe your religious tenets to me. Again, you have no idea who you're dealing with.

While I may not "know" WHO I am dealing with....by your comments, it is obvious WHAT I am dealing with in YOU!! As for broadbrushing, forget it. I am no coward...I will shoot it straight to YOU. Yet, your comments are quite in line with the "group" I was referring to...so in that way my assumptions seem quite appropriate!

 

[IndigoRose7]

Wait a second. One minute your saying that the U.S. soldiers have been betrayed as if you care about us, and then in the very same breath you are calling us baby killers.

Yes, US soldiers have been and are being betrayed everyday by the lying excuse for a government that keeps them in harms way. As for the baby killers...those are your words, not mine...Sir.