Missing soldiers reportedly found dead

[utdbear]

You're right. The Geneva Convention has nothing to do with whats going on over there, and it should be tossed. They aren't going to play by it, so lets end the hissyfits about the underwear on the heads of terrorists and go out and play some ball.

 

[Doctrine1st]

You're right. The Geneva Convention has nothing to do with whats going on over there, and it should be tossed. They aren't going to play by it, so lets end the hissyfits about the underwear on the heads of terrorists and go out and play some ball.

I agree that the Geneva convention has nothing to do with what's going on overthere, but don't forget, by justifiying torture through the Whitehouse, the Geneva Convention was the first casualty before the war started. They are barbaric, but it's kind of hard to show someone our way is better, that we are morally superiority, when we have tortured people to death. Our moral high ground in the world was being undermined from day one.

 

[MachZer0]

Why are you even bringing up the Geneva convention?

It has nothing to do with what's going on.

Any cursory review of the thread will show that I am not the one who introduced the Geneva Conventions to the discussion

 

[MercuryAndy]

if im correct the us didnt sign the human rights bill? or am i thinking of something else?

 

[Doctrine1st]

Any cursory review of the thread will show that I am not the one who introduced the Geneva Conventions to the discussion

Me bad, the right person stepped foward.

 

[TheBear]

"The two soldiers were killed and they were found in Yusufiya near an electricity plant," Major General Abdul Aziz Mohammed told a news conference in Baghdad, Reuters said.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/20/soldiers.missing/index.html


Three more Great Americans are dead.

Three more families are in mourning.

Three more reasons why supporting this vile and unnecessary bloodshed is abhorrent.

We are in no danger from Iraq. Bring our troops home!!

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM!!

Should we go after the people who brutally tortured and beheaded the two US servicemen, or do you want to give them a free pass, since you don't agree with the war?

 

[Patzak]

I'm certain that we'll soon be hearing the outrage from Amnesty International and other left wing groups. There will be calls for investigations, trials, and who knows, maybe the left wing organizations will even call for the insurgents to pull out their forces, cut and run so to speak.

I believe Amnesty International would be very happy if the perpetrators were actually investigated and tried. However, they're probably eventually just going to get bombed (along with perhaps some other people in the wrong place at the wrong time). Also, AI is usually "outraged" by the institutionalized actions of known entities which can hopefully be influenced or pressured to stop doing what they're doing. This has unfortunatelly not been the case with the Iraqi insurgency (or with the even more abstract "terrorists"), so whipping up a fury over what happened would be pointless and a waste of the organization's funds.

 

[MachZer0]

I believe Amnesty International would be very happy if the perpetrators were actually investigated and tried. However, they're probably eventually just going to get bombed (along with perhaps some other people in the wrong place at the wrong time). Also, AI is usually "outraged" by the institutionalized actions of known entities which can hopefully be influenced or pressured to stop doing what they're doing.

I consider Al Qaeda to be both known and institutionalized. To keep silent, in my opinion, betrays an anti-American bias by Amnesty International and others. They are more concerned about prisoners having panties placed on their heads than they are over prisoners literally losing their heads. AI is a disgusting organization which deserves to be ignored.

This has unfortunatelly not been the case with the Iraqi insurgency (or with the even more abstract "terrorists"), so whipping up a fury over what happened would be pointless and a waste of the organization's funds.

AI is pointless, and a waste of any funds

 

[Patzak]

I consider Al Qaeda to be both known and institutionalized. To keep silent, in my opinion, betrays an anti-American bias by Amnesty International and others.

No matter what you think, protesting against al Qaeda is highly unlikely to have any effect. Also, I'm not sure whether it's perfectly clear that the soldiers were killed by al Qaeda; perhaps it was the Mujahedeen Shura Council? Who should the AI be protesting against in this case? The specific individuals who did this? The Council? Al Qaeda? The Insurgency? Islam?

Furthermore, even if you were right, this would only betray a "pro-terrorist" bias. Your claim of this being anti-American betrays your own bias where every critique of the US has to be wrong and can never be the result of honest inquiry but only mindless anti-Americanism.

They are more concerned about prisoners having panties placed on their heads than they are over prisoners literally losing their heads.

Not true. They are, however, more concerned with what happens in the developed world and with human rights abuses that are perpetrated by western governments. This is not because they think these human rights abuses are somehow worse than others, but because protesting against them is much more likely to be successful. AI's purpose isn't to expose every human rights violation in the world and take direct action against it, but to pressure governments into improving their human rights record - something that is much easier to accomplish when you actually have a government you're speaking against, rather than a loosely defined entity whose stated purpose is to destroy the western civilization and is therefore highly unlikely to pay any heed to protests.

AI is a disgusting organization which deserves to be ignored.

Then go ahead and ignore it. If you had done so, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

AI is pointless, and a waste of any funds

That's for the AI's donators to decide. They apparently don't agree with your misinterpretation of the AI's mission.

 

[MachZer0]

No matter what you think, protesting against al Qaeda is highly unlikely to have any effect. Also, I'm not sure whether it's perfectly clear that the soldiers were killed by al Qaeda; perhaps it was the Mujahedeen Shura Council? Who should the AI be protesting against in this case? The specific individuals who did this? The Council? Al Qaeda? The Insurgency? Islam?

Al Qaeda has claimed responsibility

Furthermore, even if you were right, this would only betray a "pro-terrorist" bias. Your claim of this being anti-American betrays your own bias where every critique of the US has to be wrong and can never be the result of honest inquiry but only mindless anti-Americanism.

Sorry, this statement is far too convoluted for me to begin to interpret the meaning

Not true. They are, however, more concerned with what happens in the developed world and with human rights abuses that are perpetrated by western governments. This is not because they think these human rights abuses are somehow worse than others, but because protesting against them is much more likely to be successful.

That's cool. they can hope to prevent captured terrorists from having panties placed over their heads while ignoring true torture and beheadings. Gotcha

AI's purpose isn't to expose every human rights violation in the world and take direct action against it, but to pressure governments into improving their human rights record - something that is much easier to accomplish when you actually have a government you're speaking against, rather than a loosely defined entity whose stated purpose is to destroy the western civilization and is therefore highly unlikely to pay any heed to protests.

As you stated before, their target is the West, which by the way has a far better record than the rest of the world. Odd that AI would all but ignore the greatest violators of human rights

Then go ahead and ignore it. If you had done so, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I ignore their rants, but do to pint out their hypocrisy.

That's for the AI's donators to decide. They apparently don't agree with your misinterpretation of the AI's mission.

That's their problem, throwing money into a left wing hole in the Earth

 

[WhoeverLovesGod01]

The Geneva Convention has nothing to do with whats going on over there, and it should be tossed.

The Geneva Convention has something to do with every battlefield.

 

[k]

Should we go after the people who brutally tortured and beheaded the two US servicemen, or do you want to give them a free pass, since you don't agree with the war?

I've had enough of the bloodshed, funerals, and lousy explanations why more are justified.

What happened to those Brave men was appalling but let's put the entire situation into context. The US has murdered tens and tens and tens of thousands of INNOCENT CIVILLIANS in Iraq. It would be utterly disrespectful to call their murders anything than what they are because euphemisms such as "Casualties" are not just dishonest, but downright mean.

I find the indignation strange.......when our US troops are murdered why does it seem like some people forget the US has tortured to death Iraqis and been killing Iraqis in general for the past 16 years. Yeah, we're innocent.

 

[Patzak]

That's cool. they can hope to prevent captured terrorists from having panties placed over their heads while ignoring true torture and beheadings. Gotcha

So as long as there's a worse place in the world, nobody has any business speaking up against what goes on in the US? Sure, we torture people but the other guys torture them even more, so shut up until the situation with the other guys is fixed? But if you're happy with your country being just as good as the lowest common denominator, I guess that's fine with me.

As you stated before, their target is the West, which by the way has a far better record than the rest of the world. Odd that AI would all but ignore the greatest violators of human rights

If you can't be bothered to take five minutes to inform yourself about their "targets", I don't know what to say. If you had, for example, checked their website, you would have noticed that their current activities pertain to: Darfur, Jordan, Jamaica, Syria. I really don't see where your allegations of anti-Americanism come from. Speaking up against Guantanamo is about the only recent case I can think of where the target was specifically the US. If that's enough for you to call them disgusting and anti-American, that says much more about yourself than it does about the AI.

And again: AI is a pressure group, not an army that could take direct action agains entities guilty of human rights abuses. Pressure works when there is someone to be pressured. People in the west care more about human rights and can therefore demand a better record from their governments. The government of Sudan apparently cares about them very little - still, something can be done by reporting the abuses and trying to persuade other governments to take some sort of action. Action is already being taken against al Qaeda - pointing out their human rights abuses serves absolutely nothing, as al Qaeda itself doesn't seem to be susceptible to pressure, while governments of other countries are already taking action against al Qaeda and don't need to be persuaded to do so.

 

[MachZer0]

So as long as there's a worse place in the world, nobody has any business speaking up against what goes on in the US? Sure, we torture people but the other guys torture them even more, so shut up until the situation with the other guys is fixed? But if you're happy with your country being just as good as the lowest common denominator, I guess that's fine with me.

That isn't the point. America is being accused of torture for putting panties on prisoners heads and there is outrage. Two American soldiers lost their heads literally and brutally and there is silence from Amnesty International and other similar groups. It's called hypocrisy and reveals an agenda

If you can't be bothered to take five minutes to inform yourself about their "targets", I don't know what to say. If you had, for example, checked their website, you would have noticed that their current activities pertain to: Darfur, Jordan, Jamaica, Syria. I really don't see where your allegations of anti-Americanism come from. Speaking up against Guantanamo is about the only recent case I can think of where the target was specifically the US. If that's enough for you to call them disgusting and anti-American, that says much more about yourself than it does about the AI.

And again: AI is a pressure group, not an army that could take direct action agains entities guilty of human rights abuses. Pressure works when there is someone to be pressured. People in the west care more about human rights and can therefore demand a better record from their governments. The government of Sudan apparently cares about them very little - still, something can be done by reporting the abuses and trying to persuade other governments to take some sort of action. Action is already being taken against al Qaeda - pointing out their human rights abuses serves absolutely nothing, as al Qaeda itself doesn't seem to be susceptible to pressure, while governments of other countries are already taking action against al Qaeda and don't need to be persuaded to do so.

AI is another Marxist, anti-America, hate freedom and capitalism group. Their silence on this event reveals them for what they are.

 

[peepnklown]

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM!

It’s time to be responsible…the US government lied to the American people and it’s time to bring our troops home.
I found something quite ironic…the media focusing on the torture of these American soldiers.

 

[TheBear]

I've had enough of the bloodshed, funerals, and lousy explanations why more are justified.

What happened to those Brave men was appalling but let's put the entire situation into context. The US has murdered tens and tens and tens of thousands of INNOCENT CIVILLIANS in Iraq. It would be utterly disrespectful to call their murders anything than what they are because euphemisms such as "Casualties" are not just dishonest, but downright mean.

I find the indignation strange.......when our US troops are murdered why does it seem like some people forget the US has tortured to death Iraqis and been killing Iraqis in general for the past 16 years. Yeah, we're innocent.

You didn't answer the question.

Try to set aside the anti-Bush, anti-war fever before answering.

Two US servicemen were brutally and savagely tortured, mutilated and beheaded. Their body parts were then dumped outside of Baghdad.

Should we hunt down the men who did this? Yes or no?

 

[IndigoRose7]

Two US servicemen were brutally and savagely tortured, mutilated and beheaded. Their body parts were then dumped outside of Baghdad.

Should we hunt down the men who did this? Yes or no?

OK...well, to that I say....what about the disabled Iraqi veteran who was taken from his home and brutally murdered.
Hmmmm......

"Those who live by the sword"....well you know the rest...

 

[MachZer0]

OK...well, to that I say....what about the disabled Iraqi veteran who was taken from his home and brutally murdered.

To that I say, the alleged killers are under arrest pending a trial. The question remains, should we hunt down the men who brutally killed our two soldiers or not? Funny that nobody wants to answer that question. Hmmmm

 

[IndigoRose7]

To that I say, the alleged killers are under arrest pending a trial. The question remains, should we hunt down the men who brutally killed our two soldiers or not? Funny that nobody wants to answer that question. Hmmmm

Nope we shouldn't hunt them down.
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Hey you all wanted a war....well now we have one.

 

[Billnew]

I didn't read the article, but if it's the same people me and my fellow Marines were talking about yesterday then the leadership of those soldiers needs to be put on trial. How do you put just three soldiers at a checkpoint in the middle of nowhere?

I hear it was the simple trick to devert forces to a deversion, and attack the true objective.

The forces, need to realize, there is no surrender. Torture and death is the only thing surrender brings.

We are not fighting a force controlled by ANY rules of war.