Missing pages from one's bible

[Xeno.of.athens]

For a council that was intended to unite the East and West, it failed spectacularly in its purpose.

One could reply by noting that the those who attended agreed with union but that the public in Constantinople steadfastly refused it. And such seems to be the public view to this day.

 

[Servus]

I wish there was a nice "boo" icon

It appears to me that you're projecting your fear of papal authority onto others.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Perhaps, but you're not going to backdoor the authority of men by assuming they have correctly set the canon.

Fear if it existed in this case would be fear of authority.

That is correct; the post shown above expresses apprehension about "the authority of men".

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

It appears to me that you're projecting your fear of papal authority onto others.

See post 443 above.

 

[prodromos]

One could reply by noting that the those who attended agreed with union but that the public in Constantinople steadfastly refused it. And such seems to be the public view to this day.

If by "public" you mean other bishops, priests, monastics and laity, then you would be right.

 

[Servus]

See post 443 above.

It still looks to me like you're projecting you're own fear and apprehension. Hypothetically speaking, if you got a letter from the pope that expressed he was angry with you over something, and summoned you to his office, I expect you'd probably be full of apprehension and fear. Whereas Fervent wouldn't. It's like expecting someone to be afraid of the CEO and board of directors of the company you work for, when that person isn't an employee.

 

[The Liturgist]

Many of them also drive on the wrong side of the road

Indeed, those British, Irish, Indiana, Japanese, Jamaicans and their ilk will never accept that the right side is actually the right side, unlike the population of South America and most or all of Africa below the equator.

Also as much as I love trams, or streetcars as we call them on this continent, the thought of having to make a ”hook turn” at every intersection, which no North American city, even Toronto with its relatively substantial streetcar network, requires, is enough to scare me off attempting to drive in Melbourne altogether. Which is potentially a problem because for the life of me I cannot figure out how train service between Flinders Street and the City Circle and, say, Southern Cross, is supposed to work.

 

[The Liturgist]

If by "public" you mean other bishops, priests, monastics and laity, then you would be right.

Indeed, and unlike in the Roman Catholic church, where a Pope can uniltaterally making a sweeping and unpopular decision like Traditiones Custodes, in the Orthodox Church no single bishop has that much power, and to the extent synods and councils do have power, the laity can reject them. This is why for example the Arian synods like the Council of Antioch have no canonical status despite being theoretically valid assemblies of bishops in apostolic succession.

Now I do pray for eventual unity between Rome and the Orthodox respecting the autocephaly Orthodox bishops enjoy under Canons 6 and 7 of Nicaea, however, had Florence been adopted in the fifteenth century, during the Avignon Papacy, the Borgias, etc, everything Catholics love about the Orthodox church today including the mystical theology, the monasticism, Hesychasm, the liturgies, the iconostasis, the Octoechos, Palamist theology, etc, would have likely been lost due to Latinization, and while we might have kept Constantinople as a Christian city, visiting it would be a bit like visiting Ravenna, with predominantly Latin services in Byzantine churches. It is also possible such a union would have done nothing to prevent the Protestant Reformation and indeed, if aggressive Latinization happened in the Byzantine Empire, it could have spread to it due to people being annoyed with non-vernacular liturgies and communion in one kind, as it happened in that selfsame century in Moravia, where the formerly Orthodox people led by St. Jan Hus (venerated as a martyr in the Orthodox Church of the Czech Lands and Slovakia) rose up to reclaim what they had previously had before the Hapsburgs conquered Prague and the surrounding environs and everything was Latinized.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Hypothetically speaking, if you got a letter from the pope that expressed he was angry with you over something, and summoned you to his office, I expect you'd probably be full of apprehension and fear.

Nope.

Whereas Fervent wouldn't.

Fervent's posts expressed apprehension about human authority which is what I pointed to.

It still looks to me like you're projecting you're own fear and apprehension. Hypothetically speaking, if you got a letter from the pope that expressed he was angry with you over something, and summoned you to his office, I expect you'd probably be full of apprehension and fear. Whereas Fervent wouldn't. It's like expecting someone to be afraid of the CEO and board of directors of the company you work for, when that person isn't an employee.

I am not in the least bit concerned about a papal letter. Nor am I apprehensive about human authority.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

scare me off attempting to drive in Melbourne altogether.

Driving in the Melbourne CBD is scary!

 

[The Liturgist]

Driving in the Melbourne CBD is scary!

As an amusing aside, the abbreviation Australians use instead of saying “Downtown” (in America, only city planners will use the phrase “Central Business District”) in the US increasingly refers to a product derived from that herb which Rastafarians presume to be sacred. As someone so allergic to smoke from tobacco and, shall we say, Rastafarian herbal items, the thought of walking through a downtown actually called the “CBD” makes my lungs panic.

 

[Servus]

Nope.

Fervent's posts expressed apprehension about human authority which is what I pointed to.

I am not in the least bit concerned about a papal letter. Nor am I apprehensive about human authority.

Then could you please explain exactly what you mean regarding all the times you've posted about fear/apprehension of papal and hierarchy authority?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Then could you please explain exactly what you mean regarding all the times you've posted about fear/apprehension of papal and hierarchy authority?

I didn't spend much time on that, just one post expressing the view that one of your posts expresses apprehension about human authority.

 

[Servus]

I didn't spend much time on that, just one post expressing the view that one of your posts expresses apprehension about human authority.

Why are you avoiding answering the question?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Why are you avoiding answering the question?

I would like to say way, but I may get in trouble if I do

 

[BNR32FAN]

The earliest fragment of the Masoretic text is many centuries later than the Septuagint.

Yes that error was brought to my attention earlier in the thread, but thanks for the information. I will strive to be more accurate in the future.

 

[Servus]

I would like to say way, but I may get in trouble if I do

So you fear saying why you accused someone of being in fear.

I'm getting the impression you don't want to be taken seriously.

 

[Fervent]

That is correct; the post shown above expresses apprehension about "the authority of men".

Not recognizing usurpers as an authority is not an expression of fear, it's simply a statement about illegitimate authorities.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Not recognizing usurpers as an authority is not an expression of fear, it's simply a statement about illegitimate authorities.

That's one point of view. It isn't the point of view that I hold.

 

[Fervent]

That's one point of view. It isn't the point of view that I hold.

And that's the whole disagreement, with the trivial dispute over the canon being one expression of it.