Petros2015

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Her approach actually reminded me of a saying I would learn letter from a role playing game concerning Chinese poetry, that hand writing was the most important thing much more so than lyrical content.

Legend of the 5 Rings? I remember calligraphy was an important skill.

I remembered the professor Dr. Dalip Basu who seemed kind of like a cool guy, and I liked to hear him lecture on Indian culture and history for the class.

Loved my Indian History class in college. The guy was great; I never thought I would have been interested but he made it one of my favorites.

But being a psych student and especially well versed in Social psychology and persuasion I was about as armed against it as I could be

Heh. Reminds me of the time I was a junior salesperson for Cutco Knives, and the guy taught me "Order Form Close" technique to use on customers (basically you fill everything out as though they are OK with it and then pass them the form and the pen to sign with so its hard for them to refuse) and within 60 minutes used it on me to try to get me to sign up for a sales training retreat I expressed reluctance towards.

lol.

He seemed surprised when I resigned and walked out.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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Legend of the 5 Rings? I remember calligraphy was an important skill.

It actually was Dungeons and Dragon, "Oriental Adventurers" which kind of created an eastern version of the regular game of Advanced Dungeons and Dragon in the mid 80s, a few years before they came out with Second Edition ADD.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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Heh. Reminds me of the time I was a junior salesperson for Cutco Knives, and they guy taught me "Order Form Close" technique to use on customers (basically you fill everything out as though they are OK with it and then pass them the form and the pen to sign with so its hard for them to refuse) and within 60 minutes used it on me to try to get me to sign up for a sales training retreat I expressed reluctance towards.

lol oh I had a good friend who tried to sell those!


Yeah there are different names for that kind of technique but it uses commitment and consistency principal.
 
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paul1149

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To call this stuff merely dystopian sounds clinical and anodyne. A nation based on these principles would be a hell on earth actively suppressing truth and goodness. And we are already well along the path to that end, as the headlines every day, and as much of our culture, even including many a poster here, even Christians, show.
 
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DragonFox91

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OK I retell some of my stories.


1) Language in Mind, the Summer of 1988, UC Santa Cruz

I took this elective class called "Language and Mind" for Summer school as an elective. It was an interdisciplinary class in Cybernetics, that also referred to psychology, computer programming and probably a few other things.

Things went well in the class. I didn't really run into problems in the class until my oral presentation, and it was only the end of it where their was some fireworks.

I was really interested in the psychology of being a different culture. So I explored every book I could find on it. There are lot of interesting things between cultures:

A) Spatial zones. What your bubble of personal space is, where you don't want people crowding into it.
We Americans have the biggest personal space bubbles compared to I think everybody else.


B) Personal Boundaries regarding you personal space. this covers things like leaving a door open in your bedroom. or office. With Americans a person can be in the threshold of a doorway, but not invaded the space. Which is different than Germans. Where they are kind of absolutist about personal boundaries. e.g. they want you either behind the door, or in the house talking to them. Some kind of fence sitting thing of being in a doorway or just before a doorway talking to a person in the room is going to annoy them.


C) I got into a study that dealt with hand gestures across cultures. Things like the thumbs up sign, OK sign, various "phallic insults" etc. which was kind of fun.


And I should have stopped there... would have got a good evaluation (UC Santa Cruz was a university founded on an evaluation system rather than a traditional grade one). But I did do some reading on language vocabulary between cultures for point D)


And with feminism etc. being an important thing people talked about, and used to Critique things I mentioned a few interesting points I forget what they were except the big one that got me into trouble.
Growing up in my neighborhood their was a family that moved in that had done some lucrative contracting/ construction work in Saudi Arabia and Arab Emirates. But it seemed like the wife while living over their had some traumatic experiences. Like it seemed like she was sexually assaulted but we didn't know the details. But she told stories of living oversees and living in a compound for foreigners and basically being like a prisoner. Like playing tennis, in one of those little skirts, hitting the ball over fence but not being able to retrieve it lest you might be attacked etc.


Anyway that made an impression on me growing up. And it seemed like their was always something wrong with Islam or at least Arab culture. Anyway I read in this book that in Arabic there is not a "word for rape" (You have to use an entire phrase or sentence e.g. "he took her against her will") and I shared this with the class. And mentioned how I thought this kind of showed a problem in that society. And by the way this sort of Critique had been done by Feminism in other areas, Malcom X did something like it when came to looking at the use of light vs dark as literary tropes etc.

lol but boy did I step into it! The instructor said that I should have had some kind of warning statement before covering that last topic. (He basically wanted a "Trigger warning" disclaimer before that term was invented). He mentioned how if I said that kind of thing in this area of campus, where international students and other international studies majors are that I could be "Shouted down!" and face some kind of unrest / riot! But I pointed out, "Isn't that a problem?"


It was kind of funny I was sort of in the middle of a battle of perspectives between two liberal Jewish academics. I had a professor in junior college Don Rosenberg, who really encouraged people to push the envelope when it came to exploring the truth, and discussing things (believing in Dialectics) To not white wash things. But he did encourage people to "play the game" when it came to politics (a little bit of the be wise as serpents and peaceful as doves). Anyway this professor had a big impact on me. He especially took a great interest in his students, he tried to have really frank discussion of topics in class etc.


But this other guy, whose name I forget really was the first generation of people that wanted people to censure themselves. He was interesting he was "Jewish" but I didn't see any sign of him practicing, and had a black Muslim girl friend.


Anyway he tried to "deconstruct" my position. Trying to show how things are not "black and white". On average yeah, women in the Islamic world probably have it a little worse than folks here. But there is lots of variation etc. and recited some of the variations in dress etc. between cultures etc. But by and large his whole aim was to not unnecessarily offend people, while my point was trying to apply a universal standard of decency because the university will make every effort possible to show problems in "Western" culture. But why does it not practice this across the board to make the World a better place? Instead there is this giant elephant in the room that the most misogynistic society is also the most protected because it is "not western" thus it is off limits.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

See that's an example, of what I was talking about too.

It used to be just a 'oh it's wackos at universities.' Guess what, their students aren't students anymore.

Of course this stuff was going on back then. I know people who were concerned about this kind of stuff, that it'd spread, that it wouldn't just stay on campuses. They were right. And I suspect the group that said 'oh, you're too concerned about the youth, making a mountain out of a molehill, it's not a big deal' didn't believe that for an instant. They liked it or agreed w/ it, it just still wasn't the norm to say it. Now it is. It just took time for enough students to get thru the system.
 
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Miles

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I'd simply call it the miseducation of America's children. Elitism has little to do with it. Things like racism and sexism are very real problems, but the answer isn't to emphasize sex and race. That's the problem, and what makes recent developments so disturbing. We need to move *away* from these categorizations, not toward them.

People are individuals. A better message would be to not stereotype, and try to understand where each person is coming from. To emphasize the fact that prejudice harms people, and that a victim mindset leads to self-fulfilling prophecy.
 
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