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LittleLambofJesus

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These ideas will send many people to hell BUT the good news is that they'll feel better about themselves for whatever little time they have left before they die. ;)

Hi. I never listen to TV evangelical preachers myself, but my wife does like J.O. and to tell the truth, I have nothing against his type of preaching.
We do more in depth reading of the Scriptures in our church and we sing hyms of praise and worship and it does make me feel good.

On the other hand, a RC Mass is, well, LIFELESS to me, as Rodney Dangerfield once exlaimed:

"What is this, dance of the living dead?"
-Rodney Dangerfield :D

 
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NoDoubt

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With regards to this, the Roman Catholic Church is, more or less, split among three factions.

1) The Traditionalists - these guys wish for worship and other things to be like they were before Vatican II.
2) The Conservatives - these guys wish for things to remain as they are right now.
3) The Liberals - these guys are more from the ecumenist and change crowd.

The Roman Catholic parish I was raised in was a mix between traditional and conservative. It still had the high altar and other fancy stuff from before Vatican II. It was very Irish and I remember the priest would wear a vestment that had a big picture of St. Patrick on the back of it (from pre-Vatican II) that he would use on St. Patrick's day.
However, the RC parish I briefly went to before becoming Orthodox, was more liberal. It looked like a Protestant church on the inside and I remember there was once a priest who tried to bring in the more traditional way of thinking but was ousted by the liberal population.

The priest in this youtube clip is most likely from the Liberal crowd.
Why did Jesus come here and why did He die? Did He not say "I AM the Way the Truth and the Life? No one comes to the Father but by ME?"

Please....make up your minds.
 
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TraderJack

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Well, I have to be fair and bring up Joel Olsteen who's interview on LKL echoed throughout the Christian world.

He hedged himself with the famous words "I don't know"

http://christianforums.com/t1820702-osteen-joel-dont-dislike-him.html

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/osteen/king.htm

KING: Because we’ve had ministers on who said, your record don’t count. You either believe in Christ or you don’t. If you believe in Christ, you are, you are going to heaven. And if you don’t, no matter what you’ve done in your life, you ain’t.

OSTEEN: Yeah, I don’t know. There’s probably a balance between. I believe you have to know Christ. But I think that if you know Christ, if you’re a believer in God, you’re going to have some good works. I think it’s a cop-out to say I’m a Christian but I don’t ever do anything . . .

KING: What if you’re Jewish or Muslim, you don’t accept Christ at all?

OSTEEN: You know, I’m very careful about saying who would and wouldn’t go to heaven. I don’t know . . .

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They’re wrong, aren’t they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don’t know if I believe they’re wrong. I believe here’s what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God will judge a person’s heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don’t know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don’t know. I’ve seen their sincerity. So I don’t know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus. [Hindus love Jehovah God (Yahweh), and worship Him as Scripture commands? All sincere souls go to heaven? What about Christ’s claim that "no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6)?]

We can toss Osteen in with the false prophets too.

He is from the Word of Faith movement that mixed the Theosophy of Madame Blavatsky, which is nothing but occultic metaphysics in with pentecostalism, whereby faith is a universal force like electromagnetism, words are the container of the force, and by harnessing the force of faith, applying it to your words, can create your own reality, and having the same creative power as God, to speak things into existence.

Read the book by the WOF guru, Charles Capps, called: "The Tongue, A Creative Force", then pick up a medieval book on black magic, and they are saying the same thing, just as Blavatsky did.
 
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NoDoubt

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We can toss Osteen in with the false prophets too.

He is from the Word of Faith movement that mixed the Theosophy of Madame Blavatsky, which is nothing but occultic metaphysics in with pentecostalism, whereby faith is a universal force like electromagnetism, words are the container of the force, and by harnessing the force of faith, applying it to your words, can create your own reality, and having the same creative power as God, to speak things into existence.

Read the book by the WOF guru, Charles Capps, called: "The Tongue, A Creative Force", then pick up a medieval book on black magic, and they are saying the same thing, just as Blavatsky did.
Yes and let's not forget to mention Rick Warren.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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We can toss Osteen in with the false prophets too.

He is from the Word of Faith movement that mixed the Theosophy of Madame Blavatsky, which is nothing but occultic metaphysics in with pentecostalism, whereby faith is a universal force like electromagnetism, words are the container of the force, and by harnessing the force of faith, applying it to your words, can create your own reality, and having the same creative power as God, to speak things into existence.

Read the book by the WOF guru, Charles Capps, called: "The Tongue, A Creative Force", then pick up a medieval book on black magic, and they are saying the same thing, just as Blavatsky did.
No thanks. I rarely read books or even the newspaper.
If I want to hear the latest skinny on politics and religion I just head over to the Eschatology guru board. :D

http://christianforums.com/f14-eschatology.html

http://christianforums.com/t4604340-who-are-you-going-to-vote-for-in-2008-and-why.html
Who Are You Going To Vote For In 2008, And Why?

I second that!
The man of sin cannot be revealed until the Church is removed from the midst of the world, as the Word of God documents in the OT and in the NT.
 
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TraderJack

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It is finally God alone who sees into men's hearts and what truth they have been given in life, and it is he who will judge on this basis. It is not for human judges to divide the sheep from the goats.


So you say.

Jesus says differently.

Matthew 7;
6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

Matthew 7;
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Jesus says we will know the false prophets who are ravenous wolves by their fruit. Jesus commands that we judge.

John the Beloved makes the same exhortation.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.


We are to test(judge) those who claim to be "supreme rulers of the church" to see if they are of God or are false prophets.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Here's a short list:

Benny Hinn

Kenneth Hagin

Kenneth Copeland

Joyce Meyers

Creflo Dollar(who denies the Deity of Christ by the way)

Morris Cerullo

and most of that TBN crowd.
:eek: They sound like they have the makings of the next pope!!!!! :D

James 5:6 Ye condemn, ye Murder/efoneusate <5407> (5656) the Righteous-One, not He is resisting to Ye.

Revelation 9:21 And not they reform/repent/metenohsan <3340> (5656) out of the Murders/fonwn <5408> of them, nor out from their sorceries,...........
 
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TraderJack

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Joel Oseen's Board Game!

If you haven't seen Joel Osteen's Game, then please take some time to familiarize yourself with it. To get the full effect, we strongly recommend that you take the time to read the games instructions. (Yes these are the real instructions. This is not satire)
The principles taught in this game as well as Osteen's books are all obsessed with self and success. These ideas will send many people to hell BUT the good news is that they'll feel better about themselves for whatever little time they have left before they die. ;)



yblnparts_2.jpg

Well, he has another mansion to buy.;)
 
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MoNiCa4316

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I think that his actions just spoke for themselves...I'm sorry forgive me too. :(

NoDoubt, I've read about Pope John Paul II, and he did many good works. People who criticize him pick on the few of his actions that they don't like, and conclude from them that He didn't know God. But even if he did a couple of things wrong (I don't know and have no right to judge), he still did many good works that were loving and Christian. That is why people loved him, and still do...and even if he made some mistakes, that's because he's human, and I'm sure God forgives him...so should everyone else.
 
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NoDoubt

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No thanks. I rarely read books or even the newspaper.
If I want to hear the latest skinny on politics and religion I just head over to the Eschatology guru board. :D

http://christianforums.com/f14-eschatology.html

http://christianforums.com/t4604340-who-are-you-going-to-vote-for-in-2008-and-why.html
Who Are You Going To Vote For In 2008, And Why?

I second that!
The man of sin cannot be revealed until the Church is removed from the midst of the world, as the Word of God documents in the OT and in the NT.
I have always been so interested in OT prophecy/Eschatology in light of current events and I believe we may be heading towards Daniel's 70th week. I am 'just a Canadian' but...

I think that if Clinton, Obama or McCain are president when Israel is next threatened, the US will not help Israel and the war of Gog/Magog will occur.

I might go even further and say that if any of them become President, the Islamofascists will see it as a sign of America's weakness and will be emboldened to attack us. And with Clinton, Obama or McCain at the helm, if we are attacked, our response will be capitulation - and Israel will be left alone.

Even so...come Lord Jesus.
 
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MoNiCa4316

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You mean like this when he Forgave his would be assassin.
shooter.jpg


and enbraces Muzenyen Agca mother of his would be assassin.


emembraces Muzeyen Agca, mother of Mehmet Ali embraces Muzeyen Agca, mother of Mehmet Ali Agca - the man who shoAgca - the embra
shootersmother.jpg
ces Muzeyen Agca, mother of Mehmet Ali Agca - the man who shoman who shobrIChris aces Muzeyen Agca, mother of MeChmEvery et Ali Agca -
That's what I meant...forgiving your enemies is a really Christian thing to do...
 
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TraderJack

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Hi. I never listen to TV evangelical preachers myself, but my wife does like J.O. and to tell the truth, I have nothing against his type of preaching.



I would recommend you telling your wife to run, not walk, but run like a banshee from Osteen. Not only is his message one of the theraputic gospel type, but he denies the sufficiency of the Cross, teaches that faith is a force that one can use to speak things into existence with, teaches that Jesus did not finish the Atonement on the Cross but had to be tortured in hell by Satan and demons until He died spiritually, only to be "born again spiritually", and that is for starters.

Osteen is bad news and full of spiritual poison.
 
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MoNiCa4316

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If God loves them so much then why does God send them to hell?

People have free will to choose to follow God, or not. If they choose not to, they send themselves to hell. The Bible says that God wants everyone to come to repentance and be saved, and does not delight in the death of sinners.
 
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TexasSky

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Try doing this, read what is said here in context. We do not make individual Romans to "be bad". We do however, scrutinize, test and oppose the Roman organization on those matters which are anti-Biblical and anti-Christian.

So please be honest to make the disctinction between the opposition to the heirarchy and dogma of Rome and the individual Romans themselves, as we do.
I am afraid I have to ask you to follow your own advice.

It is so much easier for protestants to point at mistakes the Catholic Church made over time, especially the time of the anti-popes, or when a pedophile sneaks ends up in their pulpit, than it is to actually get to know Catholics, as individuals, and understand their faith.

They are not the only church that has made mistakes.
They are not the only church that has questionable dogma.

I've heard Baptists say "all this love stuff is crap". To which my reaction is, "Be sure and tell Christ that when you get to heaven. IF you get to heaven."

I've heard it taught from Baptist pulpits, the same pulpit and the same minister in fact, that the wine Christ created at the wedding feast and drank at the last supper was not fermented grapes, and was really just grape juice, yet, in the NEXT sermon, teach that Paul recommended wine to Timothy because fermented grapes have a healing affect on certain stomach problems. Hello?

There have been protestant pedophiles.
There have been people like Jim Jones in this world, and people who make the mistakes of Oral Roberts.

There are people who swear "dancing is a sin," and "not tithing will send you to hell," while at the same time preaching, "You are saved by grace, not of works."

There are people who teach a piano is a sin.
There are people who teach dancing is the same thing as adultery.

Do I believe that the Pope is the chosen representative of God on earth?
No more than any other Christian is.
Does that mean I think the Pope is evil?
Absolutely not. The Pope, as near as I can tell, tries harder to actually live by God's word than any human being I know.

Do I think babies should be baptized?
According to all the Catholic priests I know, that is basically a version of "child dedication," and is not meant to substitute for a personal relationship with Christ.

Do I think that baptism should be a believers confession? Yes, actually I do. So I disagree with Catholics on when it should take place, HOWEVER, I was also taught, as a Baptist, that baptism is an act of obedience, and NOT what actually saves you. Ergo - - I feel pretty sure that when told, "I'm sorry, Lord, I really thought I understood what you wanted," the Lord will be more interested in the attempt to do His will than He will in the tiny detail of the law.

I am sure of that because His word tells me that. "The law was made to serve men, not men the law." "You have made the traditions of men, above the word of God."

Etc.

Now, if you have a specific issue with any particular Catholic belief (and I do), discuss that ONE ISSUE in LOVE and Tolerance and BROTHERHOOD and with a Christian attitude.

I try to do that.

I don't agree with a whole lot of Protestants either.

But to say that a person is not a Christian, simply because they are Catholic is not just wrong, it is very unChristian.

Christ said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." Now, I know, and you should know, believe in this use means, 'Surrender your life to Christ." Can you HONESTLY say that you think that Catholics do NOT love Christ, and do NOT try to serve Christ?

They do not worship the pope as if he is god.
They look to him to interpret scripture. They look to him for guideance.
Or at least MOST of them do.

Sure, there will be a few that go beyond that to idolatry toward him, but that is NOT what the doctrine of the Catholic church teaches.
 
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TexasSky

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Buddhist do that too.

Hindus do that too.

Mormons do that too.

Some Muslims do that too.

Does that make them legitimate?
No, of course it doesn't make them legitimate,

But - REFUSING to do what Christ TOLD you to do, puts something about your own faith into question. Christ told you to love your enemies, to forgive others as often as it takes. He told you, flat out, "Judge not, lest ye be judged," and He told you that you would be judged using the same measure and method you use against others.

Christ said that if your brother has anything against you, leave your gift at the alter and make it right with your brother.

Christ said if your brother is sinning, to go to him in love, and TEACH him, and if he doesn't change, then take others, and talk to him, and if he STILL doesn't change, to take it to the whole church. How is Catholic bashing doing any of that?

When I meet someone who says they are a Christian, and they share a believe that I think is wrong, I ask them to get a bible and show me why they believe that. I do not say, "You can't be a Christian." Or, "You're as unChristian as people who worship false gods."

How do you justify doing that?
Like it or not, historically, everything points to the Catholics being correct when they say that Peter is the official founder of the Catholic church.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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[/font][/size]


I would recommend you telling your wife to run, not walk, but run like a banshee from Osteen. Not only is his message one of the theraputic gospel type, but he denies the sufficiency of the Cross, teaches that faith is a force that one can use to speak things into existence with, teaches that Jesus did not finish the Atonement on the Cross but had to be tortured in hell by Satan and demons until He died spiritually, only to be "born again spiritually", and that is for starters.

Osteen is bad news and full of spiritual poison.
Hi. Actually my wife likes the singers and music played on it more than the preaching.
I can hear it when I am on the 'puter and makes me want to get up and do this:

:D
 
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MoNiCa4316

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Here's a short list:

Benny Hinn

Kenneth Hagin

Kenneth Copeland

Joyce Meyers

Creflo Dollar(who denies the Deity of Christ by the way)

Morris Cerullo

and most of that TBN crowd.

:thumbsup: I don't know what's in these people's hearts but I really disagree with much of their teaching.
 
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