Misconceptions

[LittleLambofJesus]

This guy equates saved with justifies & thus confuses them both.
Anybody else notice that

He is torn betwix the 2 me thinks.

 

[TraderJack]

My God is not a rapist who forces Himself on people

If God loves them so much then why does God send them to hell?

 

[Rick Otto]

There have been bad popes, there have been popes who are now probably in hell, as Judas proved, being an apostle does not mean you will be saved

NoDoubt, thank you for posting up those decrees from Trent

Judas was never meant to saved, and Jesus knew it when He made him an apostle.

 

[TraderJack]

I think that his actions just spoke for themselves...I'm sorry forgive me too.

JPII also taught that Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists or anyone could attain heaven as long as they lived a good life, even though they reject Christ.

 

[TraderJack]

And you will sit on the Judgement seat of Christ and every word you have spoken and written you will be judged on.

So will YOU.

 

[TraderJack]

What the pope is really telling the guy "how much money have ya got and I will get ya off the hook". Just kidding folks.

The caption reads, "I have a deal you cannot refuse. A special price on indulgences just for you."

 

[Rick Otto]

What does it matter what they follow? Don't Calvinists believe God has chosen who will go to Heaven all ready and it won't matter? Just curious.

That's a callous attitude. Predestination doesn't render scriptural commands, exhortations, & warnings meaningless any more than those things prove free will.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

JPII also taught that Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists or anyone could attain heaven as long as they lived a good life, even though they reject Christ.

Well, I have to be fair and bring up Joel Olsteen who's interview on LKL echoed throughout the Christian world.

He hedged himself with the famous words "I don't know"

http://christianforums.com/t1820702-osteen-joel-dont-dislike-him.html

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/osteen/king.htm

KING: Because we’ve had ministers on who said, your record don’t count. You either believe in Christ or you don’t. If you believe in Christ, you are, you are going to heaven. And if you don’t, no matter what you’ve done in your life, you ain’t.

OSTEEN: Yeah, I don’t know. There’s probably a balance between. I believe you have to know Christ. But I think that if you know Christ, if you’re a believer in God, you’re going to have some good works. I think it’s a cop-out to say I’m a Christian but I don’t ever do anything . . .

KING: What if you’re Jewish or Muslim, you don’t accept Christ at all?

OSTEEN: You know, I’m very careful about saying who would and wouldn’t go to heaven. I don’t know . . .

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They’re wrong, aren’t they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don’t know if I believe they’re wrong. I believe here’s what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God will judge a person’s heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don’t know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don’t know. I’ve seen their sincerity. So I don’t know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus. [Hindus love Jehovah God (Yahweh), and worship Him as Scripture commands? All sincere souls go to heaven? What about Christ’s claim that "no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6)?]

 

[Rick Otto]

wow.

I thought Christ was the judge.

Your judgement on that is partialy correct.

 

[Rick Otto]

You mean like this when he Forgave his would be assassin.

es Muzeyen Agca, mot

A great photo op that wasn't wasted!
(Except on people like me)

 

[Rick Otto]

But I know they love God

whatever that means.

 

[sunlover1]

That happens to be the Coptic Bible. And you will sit on the Judgement seat of Christ and every word you have spoken and written you will be judged on.

Doesnt it say that all of our 'thoughts' will be laid bare
as well Trento?
Do you know anything about that?
I have some REALLY bad thoughts sometimes,
and hard as I try to shut them up...

It's been on my mind alot lately.

Thanks,
sunlover

 

[Rick Otto]

Originally Posted by Rhamiel
My God is not a rapist who forces Himself on people

If God loves them so much then why does God send them to hell?

No shizzle,
if He's omnipotent, and He loves me, I'll take a rape over eternal immolation any time.
Point being, a loving parent forces his child not to walk off a cliff.

 

[Trento]

JPII also taught that Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists or anyone could attain heaven as long as they lived a good life, even though they reject Christ.

When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. (Rom 2:1-16; interestingly, in these two chapter of Romans St. Paul summarizes Wisdom 13-19)

The ``law unto themselves'' is man's participation in God's eternal law, sometimes known as the natural law. Significantly, St. Paul has not mentioned faith in Christ as a condition for knowledge of this natural law: it is a law knowable by all men without respect to creed. As St. Paul says, it is written on men's hearts, though it can be clouded by sin.

St. Luke, who was a disciple of St. Paul, reports in his gospel the words of Jesus:

And that servant who knew his master's will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating. But he who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, shall receive a light beating. Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required; and of him to whom men commit much they will demand the more. (Lk 12:47-48, cf. Lk 19:26, Mt 25:29, Mk 4:25)

It is finally God alone who sees into men's hearts and what truth they have been given in life, and it is he who will judge on this basis. It is not for human judges to divide the sheep from the goats.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

no post........................

 

[Trento]

Doesnt it say that all of our 'thoughts' will be laid bare
as well Trento?
Do you know anything about that?
I have some REALLY bad thoughts sometimes,
and hard as I try to shut them up...

It's been on my mind alot lately.

Thanks,
sunlover

The Orthodox teaching on that is as long as you don't carry out what is in them and do your best to supress them there is no sin.

 

[E.C.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMgAbEhyUww

With regards to this, the Roman Catholic Church is, more or less, split among three factions.

1) The Traditionalists - these guys wish for worship and other things to be like they were before Vatican II.
2) The Conservatives - these guys wish for things to remain as they are right now.
3) The Liberals - these guys are more from the ecumenist and change crowd.

The Roman Catholic parish I was raised in was a mix between traditional and conservative. It still had the high altar and other fancy stuff from before Vatican II. It was very Irish and I remember the priest would wear a vestment that had a big picture of St. Patrick on the back of it (from pre-Vatican II) that he would use on St. Patrick's day.
However, the RC parish I briefly went to before becoming Orthodox, was more liberal. It looked like a Protestant church on the inside and I remember there was once a priest who tried to bring in the more traditional way of thinking but was ousted by the liberal population.

The priest in this youtube clip is most likely from the Liberal crowd.

 

[NoDoubt]

Well, I have to be fair and bring up Joel Olsteen who's interview on LKL echoed throughout the Christian world.

He hedged himself with the famous words "I don't know"

http://christianforums.com/t1820702-osteen-joel-dont-dislike-him.html

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/osteen/king.htm

KING: Because we’ve had ministers on who said, your record don’t count. You either believe in Christ or you don’t. If you believe in Christ, you are, you are going to heaven. And if you don’t, no matter what you’ve done in your life, you ain’t.

OSTEEN: Yeah, I don’t know. There’s probably a balance between. I believe you have to know Christ. But I think that if you know Christ, if you’re a believer in God, you’re going to have some good works. I think it’s a cop-out to say I’m a Christian but I don’t ever do anything . . .

KING: What if you’re Jewish or Muslim, you don’t accept Christ at all?

OSTEEN: You know, I’m very careful about saying who would and wouldn’t go to heaven. I don’t know . . .

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They’re wrong, aren’t they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don’t know if I believe they’re wrong. I believe here’s what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God will judge a person’s heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don’t know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don’t know. I’ve seen their sincerity. So I don’t know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus. [Hindus love Jehovah God (Yahweh), and worship Him as Scripture commands? All sincere souls go to heaven? What about Christ’s claim that "no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6)?]

Joel Oseen's Board Game!

If you haven't seen Joel Osteen's Game, then please take some time to familiarize yourself with it. To get the full effect, we strongly recommend that you take the time to read the games instructions. (Yes these are the real instructions. This is not satire)
The principles taught in this game as well as Osteen's books are all obsessed with self and success. These ideas will send many people to hell BUT the good news is that they'll feel better about themselves for whatever little time they have left before they die.

 

[sunlover1]

The Orthodox teaching on that is as long as you don't carry out what is in them and do your best to supress them there is no sin.

But it's missing the mark of a pure heart I'd think.
Ah well, I guess if we're going to be overcomers,
we need something to overcome.


I looked up the words verse and noticed it speaks
of "idle" words. Just in case you missed that..
I'm thinking idle would mean words that arent
productive..?

for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things:
and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak,
they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified,
and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. http://christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=6795364#_ftn1
http://christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=6795364#_ftnref1

 

[Rick Otto]

yeah, how can one be tempted if it isn't one's heart to stray?