Misconceptions (Homosexuality)

[Carri20]

It seems as though my gay agenda thread went out of control while I was away and was closed. I'm not here to reopen the same debate but to clear up some misconceptions. This will be my only post in this thread:

1. I made my post because I realize there is something off-balance within me. I realize that I should be bothered by all sin equally, but handle it with grace, and not let this one specific thing ruin my day. I thought I had made that obvious in the first post. I DO NOT need to be told these things. I DO NOT need to be lectured. I am very aware.

2. I made it very clear that I hate homosexuality as a concept, not homosexuals as people. Yet I notice at least one person directly accused me of hating homosexuals (and several others implied it). There is a huge difference and I would appreciate not being the target of slander. If I had a motto for this situation it would probably be this: Love what God loves, hate what God hates.

3. I am surrounded by homosexuality and homosexual issues almost on a daily basis. It's not something that can simply be ignored. If I do nothing about it, I have not been the "watchman" as God commanded and if anyone dies in their sin because I kept quiet, their blood is on my head. Something must be done to warn these people of the danger of homosexuality. Of that I'm certain. The only question is, what should be done and how should it be done to glorify God?

4. Sexuality and race are two completely different things. I most certainly am not a racist. Satan doesn't influence people to be black or white as he influences people to be gay, or murderous, or proud. And just for the record, we already do have perfectly equal rights. Gay people have just as much right as I do to marry someone of the opposite gender. No one is being oppressed here.

 

[beechy]

Gay people have just as much right as I do to marry someone of the opposite gender. No one is being oppressed here.

Isn't love and intimacy part of the marriage equation -- or will just any old opposite gender man do for you?

As for how you can best handle yourself and not let gayness ruin your day, I say live your life as an example, teach your children well, and chill out. If you think someone needs to be "saved" from their homosexuality, then you might lovingly try talking with them about it (maybe a forum is a good start, eh? or at least good practice ...) If there is something persuasive in what you're saying, maybe that person will change. Maybe they won't. But I don't think God is going to hold you personally responsible for "saving" every gay person you encounter. Especially those who don't feel they need "saving".

 

[Spinrad]

You still need psychiatric help.

 

[levi501]

1. then why make the post if you already knew?

2. when you deny them the same rights that you have, this isn't loving the sinner. Do you think Jesus would want you denying them the socio-economic benefits of marriage? It's fine to feel it's wrong, but when you force your opinions onto others without any secular reason... your rendering judgement. Shouldn't whatever evils someone commits in this life(when it doesn't hurt others) be left to God's judgement? Or should it be yours and your ilk?

3. In my opinion you don't stand even the slightest chance of convincing a homosexual to act as a hetero. You're wasting as much of your time as a homosexual would be if they tried to convince to be gay.

4. Yup, just like 60 years ago, african americans had the same rights as a white person to marry someone of their own race also. Everything was equal then right?
.

 

[JustJack!]

Gay people have just as much right as I do to marry someone of the opposite gender. No one is being oppressed here.

But...gays aren't straight. There is no reason a gay person should be forced to marry someone of the opposite gender. You do understand that in America, ppl are supposed to be free to pursue happiness. Gay couples are denied the civil and legal advantages of hetero couples for no other reason than because they are gay. It's discrimination.

 

[christalee4]

It seems as though my gay agenda thread went out of control while I was away and was closed. I'm not here to reopen the same debate but to clear up some misconceptions. This will be my only post in this thread: I think it's a little disingenuous to re-start a topic that was shut down because it got out of hand, and then state that this will be your only post because you obviously don't want discussion.

1. I made my post because I realize there is something off-balance within me. I realize that I should be bothered by all sin equally, but handle it with grace, and not let this one specific thing ruin my day. I thought I had made that obvious in the first post. I DO NOT need to be told these things. I DO NOT need to be lectured. I am very aware. It was probably the way in which your anger was expressed that alarmed people. You mentioned destroying homosexuality, that it is born of a demonic influence in a person. Gay people HAVE been socially slandered for hundreds of years; beaten up, murdered and put to death. When people get upset at your expression of hatred against homosexuality in that manner, naturally it's upsetting.

2. I made it very clear that I hate homosexuality as a concept, not homosexuals as people. It's not clear that there is a difference between the two. If homosexuals were born that way (as you stated it probably happens that way), then what is the difference? You can't pray sexual preference out of someone. You had mentioned that you had quite a few homosexuals in your life. Perhaps the source of your anger is that they are family members, and you can't reconcile that you are related to them? You also mentioned your fear that your children might become gay. Fear and hatred go hand in hand. Yet I notice at least one person directly accused me of hating homosexuals (and several others implied it). There is a huge difference and I would appreciate not being the target of slander. If I had a motto for this situation it would probably be this: Love what God loves, hate what God hates.

3. I am surrounded by homosexuality and homosexual issues almost on a daily basis. It's not something that can simply be ignored. If I do nothing about it, I have not been the "watchman" as God commanded and if anyone dies in their sin because I kept quiet, their blood is on my head. Something must be done to warn these people of the danger of homosexuality. Of that I'm certain. The only question is, what should be done and how should it be done to glorify God? If they are family members, the only thing you can do is to live your life in the manner that you choose as a Christian, and shine as an example. If they ask you questions about your faith, and want to know more, then share it with them. But you can't change people's nature of loving and living. Just glorify God by living your life as a Christian.

4. Sexuality and race are two completely different things. I most certainly am not a racist. Satan doesn't influence people to be black or white as he influences people to be gay, or murderous, or proud. There is more more proof that gay people are wired differently from heterosexual people. There was a recent finding that gay men's brains respond similarly to heterosexual women's brains in smelling male sexual pheremones. I am sure many gay people would choose not to be gay, in a world that vilifies homosexuality. And just for the record, we already do have perfectly equal rights. Gay people have just as much right as I do to marry someone of the opposite gender. No one is being oppressed here. But they don't have the right to marry the person they love, who may be of the same sex. Don't they deserve the same rights as other citizens? You are not forced to love or marry anyone of your same sex.

Rather than fixate on homosexuals and homosexuality, see them as people and human beings, especially if they are family members. Just like all of us, they work, worship, love, grieve, and love their families. Talking to a counselor might help.

 

[feral]

I made my post because I realize there is something off-balance within me. I realize that I should be bothered by all sin equally, but handle it with grace, and not let this one specific thing ruin my day. I thought I had made that obvious in the first post. I DO NOT need to be told these things. I DO NOT need to be lectured. I am very aware.

I'm glad you realise something is very wrong. That's the first step to correcting your problems. I hope you find the help you need and are able to address whatever issues have made this topic so problematic for you. Good luck.

Gay people have just as much right as I do to marry someone of the opposite gender. No one is being oppressed here.

Unfortunately, you're not seeing the issue here. To tell an adult that he or she cannot marry another consenting adult with whom there is mutual love and affection IS to oppress, and there is no way around that fact. To you, marrying someone of the opposite gender is ideal. What if you were told that no, sorry, you're not allowed to wed someone of a different gender, despite the fact that you're in love and plan to build a future with your love? Would you consider that oppressive? How about this -- you're a Christian, right? Would you feel oppressed if you were told you could practise Wicca with everyone else, but not Christianity, even though that's what you believe in and what you want? To pretend that limiting the rights of others is anything but oppressive is to lie, blatantly and with the full intention of keeping people down. As someone with a Christian symbol beneath your name, I'd advise you to read the Bible and see what Jesus had to say about oppressing others.

I made it very clear that I hate homosexuality as a concept, not homosexuals as people. Yet I notice at least one person directly accused me of hating homosexuals (and several others implied it). There is a huge difference and I would appreciate not being the target of slander. If I had a motto for this situation it would probably be this: Love what God loves, hate what God hates.

I am surrounded by homosexuality and homosexual issues almost on a daily basis. It's not something that can simply be ignored. If I do nothing about it, I have not been the "watchman" as God commanded and if anyone dies in their sin because I kept quiet, their blood is on my head. Something must be done to warn these people of the danger of homosexuality. Of that I'm certain. The only question is, what should be done and how should it be done to glorify God?

Any time you bring hate into the equation, you have already closed off any chance of open dialogue. To some, not all homosexuals, sexuality is one of the ways they define themselves. If you hate what they do, you hate who they are...which means you hate them. Your hatred will bar you from any hope of ever reaching a single homosexual, because you've already erected a wall of separation and made your disgust towards homosexuals clear. You will never help a single soul as long as you remain aloof and apart handing out judgements instead of getting involved on a personal level and making every effort to reach out, communicate and befriend those you wish to help. Why would any homosexual turn to you for information about Jesus? As a Christian, you are a representative of Jesus on this earth, and if you are unwilling to reach out and swallow your pride as well as eliminate your prejudice, what sort of witness can you possibly make for God? A far better way would be to examine the deep seated issues that have made you so virulent in your hatred of homosexuality and to come to terms with your own problems, and then to go out into the world as a welcoming light, demonstrating truth with love and open arms instead of sneering and making it clear that everything about homosexuals sickens you.

You do not have to surrender your Biblical belief that homosexuality is a sin in order to look past the sin into the eyes of the person you wish to help. Every man, woman and child you will meet in this life is a sinner, including yourself, and you will need to accept that fact before you can be of assistance to them. Being a watchdog doesn't mean pointing out the flaws in other people or acting disgusted around homosexuals, but that doesn't mean you need to be quiet. If you want to help, you'll need to get past the gut reaction that's holding you back. That's the first step, because you won't be able to reach anyone when you feel so negatively about them and what they are doing. After that, there are all sorts of ways to help.

The best ways would be to makes friends with homosexual people and treat them as friends, not as projects. Invite them to church or religious events where they can learn about God, but not just those designed to address homosexuality. So many people think the only way to help homosexuals is to drill it into their head how sinful they are -- believe me, there is no homosexual in the western world ignorant of what the Bible says. Not one. It gets to be an old, meaningless message after a while, especially because lots of religious people take on gays and lesbians are projects and get bored or frustrated when the people don't immediately change. Sometimes all you can do is plant the seed and be a listening ear, and to continue to show love and support (not necessarily complete acceptance) even when your gay and lesbian friends don't do what you'd like. Reach out to gays and lesbians as people, not as sinners you plan to fix, and provide for them a positive, loving example of a Christian, because many have never seen a Christian who respects them as people and doesn't just want to change them. Sometimes, that will make a real big difference, but even if it doesn't you'll have brought the person closer to God. Treat your gay and lesbian friends as you would anyone else. You can talk about homosexuality, ask questions and make known your beliefs, as long as that's not all you talk about and you allow for the fact that not everyone is going to be pleased with what you have to say. It's sort of like being friends with someone who smokes. You might ask them occasionally why they smoke, support them when they try to quit and ask them not to smoke in your apartment and car, but your friendship can't be built on getting them to quit smoking.

Other ways to help, when you're ready would be through any Christian ministry. There are those programs like Exodus Int'l of course, but just being part of a church board or encouraging people to come to church is something you can do. Maybe you can be the representative for your church that serves as a liason between the church and the gay community or your local PFLAG, or the person that welcomes new gay and lesbian visitors and makes them feel at home. Volunteer in an AIDS clinic or someplace else where you have the opportunity to share your faith and your friendship with people in need. That's what a watchdog is, and you want to be a helpful watchdog like a seeing eye dog, not an attack dog that scares people away from Christianity. I wish you luck with it.

 

[Sitting Duck]

Something must be done to warn these people of the danger of homosexuality. Of that I'm certain. The only question is, what should be done and how should it be done to glorify God?

I don't think you should try to witness directly (I apologise if this isn't the right term to use, I'm not a christian) to homosexuals as long as homosexuality triggers anger in you. People can and will feel your anger. They won't hear what you say if your anger is louder than your words. Anger builds walls between people.

It's one thing if people walk away from the Christian God out of their own choice. It's another if they do so because of the anger a christian targeted at them. In the second case, you contributed to build a wall between those you call sinners and your God. I doubt that would be glorifying him.

Leave sinners alone if their sin makes you angry. Choose instead to support those who can witness to them without anger in their heart. No one has ever been called to do everything in this world (except maybe people like Jesus?). Concentrate on the things you can do to glorify your God that bring you peace and happiness (helping other young mothers such as yourself for exemple. I'm sure you have experiences you could share with them).

In short, you can't do everything. There's just too much that needs to be done. Do what you can do well, trust others to do the rest and support them when they do it.

I wish you to find peace.

 

[Jetgirl]

2. I made it very clear that I hate homosexuality as a concept, not homosexuals as people. Yet I notice at least one person directly accused me of hating homosexuals (and several others implied it). There is a huge difference and I would appreciate not being the target of slander. If I had a motto for this situation it would probably be this: Love what God loves, hate what God hates.

You have stated this several times... but your posts are also dripping with vitrol about how angry and worked up you get when confronted by gay people...

Imagine for a moment if someone said to you, perhaps not knowing your prefernces "Wow, I think Christians are so stupid and it's utterly ridiculous that they think they way they do, I think they should be kicked out of the country... of course, I don't hate them, just their religion."

Now to this person, it may be obvious that religion is just a choice someone makes, and they can un-choose it at whim. To you it's an integral part of your core being. (As to you "gay" is a choice, but the vast majority of gay people contradict you on that.)

Could you honestly manage to not be personally hurt by such a statement, even knowing that the person making the statement clearly things that what you do can be surgically seperated from who you are?

 

[Jetgirl]

Leave sinners alone if their sin makes you angry. Choose instead to support those who can witness to them without anger in their heart. No one has ever been called to do everything in this world (except maybe people like Jesus?). Concentrate on the things you can do to glorify your God that bring you peace and happiness (helping other young mothers such as yourself for exemple. I'm sure you have experiences you could share with them).

In short, you can't do everything. There's just too much that needs to be done. Do what you can do well, trust others to do the rest and support them when they do it.

I wish you to find peace.

I agree with Sitting Duck here greatly.

I've been witnessed at a few times by people who were genuinely angered by the fact that I don't agree with them, and approached me with that anger in their mind toward me and people like me before we even spoke, and it's more offputting toward said religion that just about anything.

Spread your efforts in places where you can with joy, it will work much better, and not stress you out.

 

[Ledifni]

And just for the record, we already do have perfectly equal rights. Gay people have just as much right as I do to marry someone of the opposite gender. No one is being oppressed here.

The right to marry another's choice hardly qualifies as a right to marry.

 

[Ledifni]

It seems as though my gay agenda thread went out of control while I was away and was closed. I'm not here to reopen the same debate but to clear up some misconceptions. This will be my only post in this thread:

1. I made my post because I realize there is something off-balance within me. I realize that I should be bothered by all sin equally, but handle it with grace, and not let this one specific thing ruin my day. I thought I had made that obvious in the first post. I DO NOT need to be told these things. I DO NOT need to be lectured. I am very aware.

2. I made it very clear that I hate homosexuality as a concept, not homosexuals as people. Yet I notice at least one person directly accused me of hating homosexuals (and several others implied it). There is a huge difference and I would appreciate not being the target of slander. If I had a motto for this situation it would probably be this: Love what God loves, hate what God hates.

3. I am surrounded by homosexuality and homosexual issues almost on a daily basis. It's not something that can simply be ignored. If I do nothing about it, I have not been the "watchman" as God commanded and if anyone dies in their sin because I kept quiet, their blood is on my head. Something must be done to warn these people of the danger of homosexuality. Of that I'm certain. The only question is, what should be done and how should it be done to glorify God?

4. Sexuality and race are two completely different things. I most certainly am not a racist. Satan doesn't influence people to be black or white as he influences people to be gay, or murderous, or proud. And just for the record, we already do have perfectly equal rights. Gay people have just as much right as I do to marry someone of the opposite gender. No one is being oppressed here.

It does not sound like you wish to help homosexuals as you claim. Rather, it seems you wish to help yourself by forcing them to behave as you do. If you disagree, I suggest you read the above post and especially your "agenda" post and tell me how much love you find in them. I think you have no love whatsoever for homosexuals -- that you hate them for making you fear them. But I think you believe it is your duty to love them and so you try to go through the motions of love while expressing your hate with frightening vitriol.

I ask you, then -- is hatred that occasionally acts as if it were love any kind of love at all? The Bible speaks of love, and your behavior is not what it describes.

 

[atoborch]

It seems as though my gay agenda thread went out of control while I was away and was closed. I'm not here to reopen the same debate but to clear up some misconceptions. This will be my only post in this thread:

Here we go again more people just not seeing the light here is an overview
1)Knowns
a)free choice first and highest gift given to us by God with makes us different than any other living organism
b)people are evil, that is why we need Jesus
c)evil people sin, sence we are all evil we all sin

now lets get into the line by line

1. I made my post because I realize there is something off-balance within me. I realize that I should be bothered by all sin equally, but handle it with grace, and not let this one specific thing ruin my day. I thought I had made that obvious in the first post. I DO NOT need to be told these things. I DO NOT need to be lectured. I am very aware.

1)the only thing off-balance here that is see is trying to futher justfy what you perviously said
2)to piggy back on that statement discourse is action, it does affect reality both of the person comnucating it and to thoes that are subjected to it
3)you have come to a partaital relization now lets get to the rest

2. I made it very clear that

I hate

homosexuality as a concept, not homosexuals as people. Yet I notice at least one person directly accused me of hating homosexuals (and several others implied it). There is a huge difference and I would appreciate not being the target of slander. If I had a motto for this situation it would probably be this: Love what God loves, hate what God hates.

1)maybe i made the point up there i'll quote you "I HATE" ok that is enough, hate in and of its slef is a sin, more over its morally and socially unaceable by any religous, dogmatic, or humanist stand point
2)saying you hate a concept and saying you can care about the people is like saying that you hate the Jewish religon but like Jews either way its an anti-secmatic point of view
3)again i don't think God is much of a hater, his name means love, the polar opisist of hate, please quit implying that my God hate any part of his creation

3. I am surrounded by homosexuality and homosexual issues almost on a daily basis. It's not something that can simply be ignored. If I do nothing about it, I have not been the "watchman" as God commanded and if anyone dies in their sin because I kept quiet, their blood is on my head. Something must be done to warn these people of the danger of homosexuality. Of that I'm certain. The only question is, what should be done and how should it be done to glorify God?

1) who said to ingore it, it is quite obvious that you can't
2) sure you can talk about the love of God and how he loves a certian person regladless of their sexual preferance.....that is not hard, nor do i see why you are making this har
3) you are surrounded by all sorts of things of the world that are sinfull, why are they not bothering you as much as this issues?

4. Sexuality and race are two completely different things. I most certainly am not a racist. Satan doesn't influence people to be black or white as he influences people to be gay, or murderous, or proud. And just for the record, we already do have perfectly equal rights. Gay people have just as much right as I do to marry someone of the opposite gender. No one is being oppressed here.

1) your feelings are one of the hardest things to control, your fellings when you see or are exposed to a certain thing are just as unquie as there race
2)equal rights are you even kidding me, we are allowed to marry the person we love, while the homosexual has to denie there personal feeling and marry someone they don't love just becuase you want to live in a world where we don't have free will, are you kidding me that is not equal rights that is like saying if homosexualty was the norm that stright people could not marry some on of the opposite sex just becuase it went aginst the socialtial norm, unbelieveable that you think this is in any way equatable, that is by far one of the most ludics arguments i have ever heard, moreover it is offencive and i'm stright as an arrow, and if you are reading the above post are not is some way offened or at least applaued i question your ablity to tolerate other points of view just as much as the author of the post

Thank you

 

[Zaac]

It seems as though my gay agenda thread went out of control while I was away and was closed. I'm not here to reopen the same debate but to clear up some misconceptions. This will be my only post in this thread:

1. I made my post because I realize there is something off-balance within me. I realize that I should be bothered by all sin equally, but handle it with grace, and not let this one specific thing ruin my day. I thought I had made that obvious in the first post. I DO NOT need to be told these things. I DO NOT need to be lectured. I am very aware.

2. I made it very clear that I hate homosexuality as a concept, not homosexuals as people. Yet I notice at least one person directly accused me of hating homosexuals (and several others implied it). There is a huge difference and I would appreciate not being the target of slander. If I had a motto for this situation it would probably be this: Love what God loves, hate what God hates.

3. I am surrounded by homosexuality and homosexual issues almost on a daily basis. It's not something that can simply be ignored. If I do nothing about it, I have not been the "watchman" as God commanded and if anyone dies in their sin because I kept quiet, their blood is on my head. Something must be done to warn these people of the danger of homosexuality. Of that I'm certain. The only question is, what should be done and how should it be done to glorify God?

4. Sexuality and race are two completely different things. I most certainly am not a racist. Satan doesn't influence people to be black or white as he influences people to be gay, or murderous, or proud. And just for the record, we already do have perfectly equal rights. Gay people have just as much right as I do to marry someone of the opposite gender. No one is being oppressed here.

Well said Carri.

 

[atoborch]

Well said Carri.

are you saying that you agree with number 4 of her post???

 

[Zaac]

2. when you deny them the same rights that you have, this isn't loving the sinner.

I don't have a right to marry someone of the same sex either so what same right is being denied?

Do you think Jesus would want you denying them the socio-economic benefits of marriage?

Jesus wants us to teach His Word and in accordance with His Word as our standard, the committing of homosexual acts is not to be encouraged by endowing people with this notion that because they CHOOSE to commit homosexual acts that they be rewarded for disobedience. SIngle people who want to shack up don't get the economic benefits of marriage either.

If you want the benefits of marriage, then get on the right page as to what marriage is supposed to be.

It's fine to feel it's wrong, but when you force your opinions onto others without any secular reason... your rendering judgement.

By that measure, the issue of same-sex marriage should never have come up because they shouldn't be forcing their opinions with or without a secular reason.

Shouldn't whatever evils someone commits in this life(when it doesn't hurt others) be left to God's judgement? Or should it be yours and your ilk?

I'm called by God to righteously judge ALL THINGS including the behavior of people who think that their behavior's are okay just because they aren't hurting anyone.

3. In my opinion you don't stand even the slightest chance of convincing a homosexual to act as a hetero. You're wasting as much of your time as a homosexual would be if they tried to convince to be gay.

That's why Christians aren't called to convince those who are mired in blatant sin to do anything. It is God that changes a person's heart. We are just to deliver the Word by which He will change them and set them free.

4. Yup, just like 60 years ago, african americans had the same rights as a white person to marry someone of their own race also. Everything was equal then right?

Where do ya'll keep getting this idea that God says we are to be equal with people who are blatantly disobeying Him and in blatant denial about it?

 

[Zaac]

are you saying that you agree with number 4 of her post???

Yep. Sure do.

 

[beechy]

Yep. Sure do.

With respect to marriage as a civil institution I just don't understand this position.

 

[Zaac]

With respect to marriage as a civil institution I just don't understand this position.

With respect to marriage as a covenant with Jesus Christ, I don't understand any other position.

 

[Spinrad]

With respect to marriage as a covenant with Jesus Christ, I don't understand any other position.

If I remember correctly you believe that government shouldn't recognise any marriages, right? All mariages should be sectarian.