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Mis-conceptions about Patristic Universalism

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cupid dave

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I agree.
But everyone will also be changed in some way you do not explain.

The flood wiped out all men who were not saved.
It seems to me that what we look forward to is a Bible insight that all men will accept, even the atheist.

There must be some change in what we understand such that everyoene is "savable."

It is the proposal of us Theistic Evolution Buble people that thi new all encompassing insight is a marriage between Science and the Bible which weds the Truth of both together into one whole statement of fact that can not be ignored.

What we see is that sociology becomes a support to the prophecies the nations will fall one after the other if they do not behave sexually moral.

We see that America is 50% pagan now (Democrat/liberal), she will either change and be saved or representthe perfect example of Islam invading and destroying this magnificent technological heaven on earth.
 
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H

Huram Abi

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If you haven't noticed, the Quran is a holy book that already does a much better job at reconciling Science and Scripture than you will ever be able to do with the bible by the "insight" you keep claiming to have, yet atheists aren't scurryong to become Muslims.

How can you expect that pretending there is already a group of followers of your book or that being derogatory about over half of the people in the country (Democrats + women in general) is going to make your case?
 
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msmorality

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Are you blaming Islam for immorality ? I am confused .
 
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msmorality

Wendy
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Wow, thank you. What a great statement that the instilling of ' fear ' of punishment did nothing to transform your mind, heart and direction. May I ask what eventually ' saved' you from the self destruction ?
 
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Hillsage

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Wow, thank you. What a great statement that the instilling of ' fear ' of punishment did nothing to transform your mind, heart and direction. May I ask what eventually ' saved' you from the self destruction ?

The following was copied from my 'public profile'/'about me'/personal testimony.
Coming to 'know him' as He is that night (which really was just 'loving me' as I was) made me want to become, like HE IS. This was simply the cry of my spirit resonating/'becoming one' with His Spirit. Of course good old 'indoctrination' changed what 'He is like' for a number of years.
 
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msmorality

Wendy
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Thank you. You have an amazing testimony.
 
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IndieVisible

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Most interesting and civil thread, I will be subscribing to it. I'm 56 years old and started out very young (7) in my journey. I've always had difficulty with reconciling a loving God with eternal punishment, but equally had difficulty with the main doctrines of Universalism. Of course this is no where near as hard to grasp as Calvinism and St Augustin theology. Certainly God is just and there must be a Just solution.

There is problems with any "model" we use, so it's possible it could be some thing else all together or a little of each? Or none of the above. The Bible is not as clear cut as many would like to believe it is, again it depends on what ever your main model of belief is and you interpret the rest accordingly. Thank God for free thinkers that keep all of us thinking
 
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msmorality

Wendy
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Absolutely. I found that between Armenian and Augustinian Theology. Patristic Universal-ism brings balance to both.

I think it was Thomas Talbott who said.:

The free will model teaches God is very loving, but is not powerful enough to save everyone.

The Calvinism Model teaches God is very powerful, but lacks enough love to save everyone.

In the Universal model God is both loving and powerful. And accomplishes victory for salvation for everyone..

I like another quote from an unknown Author.

If believing God is both loving enough and powerful enough to save everyone makes me a heretic so be it..,
 
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C

cupid dave

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I agree with your analysis of te bible debaters and the denominatinal environment.
It is impossible to dicuss the bibe on a level where the people involved are unbiased and open to new points of view, just because they are really defending a view they already are faithful to, instead of faithful to The Truth.

They forget that Christ IS The Truth and the way to the light into a saved life.
They are faithful to their churches dogma and teachings, which is carried to the extreme when it concerns interpretations of the Bible.

They forget that the Bible is a closed book, and that we await the one to come who can open it.
 
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The Gnostic

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I like to give you a slight different view on what the black crusty gooey stuff is.In one simple word I believe it represents ignorance whereas any light seen in your dreams may represent Wisdom.
 
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C

cupid dave

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Are you blaming Islam for immorality ? I am confused .


?

I did not see Islqam mmentioned in the quote above.

What I see is pagan liberal America full with one half of all families raising fatherless children.
I do not see thatsocial behavior in Islam, which is actually setting a good example in that regard.

What I do see is the same vise about sexual immorality today and what happened in 1960.

That vise was between Malcolm X on one side and the Rev christian Martin Luther King on the other side of Civil Rights changes in America.

I see the Truth about promiscuous feminist women and liberal immoral dwemocrats like Bill Mahr coming face toface with Christians on the facts of social problems, or else sword to sword with muslims.
 
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msmorality

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Thank you for expanding . I am passionate about this topic as well, and believe that the feminist movement has had a lot of influence , unfortunately on immorality. But.... this would make a good topic in another thread..
 
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C

cupid dave

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Thank you for expanding . I am passionate about this topic as well, and believe that the feminist movement has had a lot of influence , unfortunately on immorality. But.... this would make a good topic in another thread..


Yes, it ought be a new thread especially today when the churches have their heads in the sand as their own children are actually responsible ofr 2/3 of the 1.5 million annual abortions today.

They need a revival that starts with admiting that the Torah is the focus of love god and neighbor, Christ is Truth.
 
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msmorality

Wendy
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Good points, let me know if you start a thread..
 
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C

cupid dave

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Good points, let me know if you start a thread..


Well what I havebeen doing is interjecting these ideas and statistical observations into discussion especially with atheists and non believers in order to explain hy the bible is so biased against straight and homosexual pressures to make promiscuous sex a more and more liberal and common behavioral practice in America.

The liberal feminist pressure for Gay Marriage, and out of the closet aggressive sexual behaviors, skin bare dress codes, and abortions, coupled to the acceptance of No Fault Divorce, and multiple marriages and pre-maritlal sex are the reasons people like Billaher ridiculae the Bible as archaic and out of touch.

So, I focus on responding to those forums and discussions which ignore or do not know that the Single Mother Family is 50% in America and the children represent 75% of all social problems in the Nation.

This says nothing about the tremendous public expense in so many areas due to this behavior we INTENTIONALLY teach the next generation to duplicate.
 
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msmorality

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Keep up the good work..
 
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agape101

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knowing right from wrong and having to believe in a person named Jesus whom you've never met, are irrespective of one another.....
 
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agape101

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it is not important to note. it was a dream. last night i dreamt that my brother had killed someone.
 
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plmarquette

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one life, then judgement.....>>> up or <<<<<< down...end story

God of ... yes, on earth as it is in heaven, He is the boss, here and there, everywhere

revelation .... Jesus..... judge the quick and the dead, second death, sins unto death, to everlasting torment....
 
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