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Miraculous "powers" in pastors/preachers, real or not?, from what source?

Neogaia777

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Miraculous "powers" in pastors/preachers, real or not?, from what source?

How do people explain pastors like Benny Hinn, or Rodney Howard Browne, having some kind of supernatural power over people that they claim is the Holy Spirit, but that the world is wondering whether or not they are being empowered by Satan...

Either way, it evidence of the supernatural, isn't it?

Thoughts? Comments?

God Bless!
 

orangeness365

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I don't know really much of anything about those pastors, but I know the Pharisees wondered if Jesus got his powers from Beelzebub/Satan.

Matthew 12:22-24
22Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. 23And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?” 24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.”
 
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Neogaia777

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I don't know really much of anything about those pastors, but I know the Pharisees wondered if Jesus got his powers from Beelzebub/Satan.

Matthew 12:22-24
22Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. 23And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?” 24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.”

And Jesus answer? (Matthew 12:25-30)

He seems to suggest that he bound Satan, and plundered his house...? but does this mean he "took" something from him (his power or position) He also said that if it is by God's power that I, ect. Then the kingdom of God has really overtaken you (the Pharisees)

You've never heard of or seen those pastors at work, really? You could quickly check it out by looking it up on YouTube...

Thanks for the reply,

God Bless!
 
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orangeness365

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I've heard of Benny Hinn before talking on Sid Roth's it's supernatural today on television, but I the other guy I don't think I've heard of. I've heard that Benny Hinn is controversial before, and I think I saw I youtube video about him where the narrator was saying that Benny Hinn says unbiblical stuff, and I see that he does have programs on tv. But I haven't watched that many of his shows.
 
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Neogaia777

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I've heard of Benny Hinn before talking on Sid Roth's it's supernatural today on television, but I the other guy I don't think I've heard of. I've heard that Benny Hinn is controversial before, and I think I saw I youtube video about him where the narrator was saying that Benny Hinn says unbiblical stuff, and I see that he does have programs on tv. But I haven't watched that many of his shows.

Well, Benny Hinn, in his youth used to say "fire" and make throngs of people fall, (knocked down) and then he would take their hand and lift them back up, in his latter years (now) he has toned down the "fire" thing, and in recent years he has cured paralytics, blind and/or deaf people, ect., various maladies...

Rodney Howard Browne makes people fall to the ground and they laugh when he touches them, all the while their eyes are closed, then he takes their hand, after a while, and lifts them up...

What I want to know, is this evidence of the supernatural? And, if it is what's behind their power?

God Bless!
 
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dragongunner

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The answer is that the Holy Ghost gives out gifts, healers, workers of miracles…..then it is up to these people to use it. There power does not come from Satan or else would be fighting his own kingdom as Jesus said. As for Benny I have seen enough to believe he is false, because of things he said would happen and did not happen as he prophesized. Now we come to another subject, can someone who was once given the gift backslide and fall from grace but still use what was given them…….I think some would agree there are those out there that are in it for the power, fame and money….turning back to INIQUITY, and having their names blotted out of the book of life.


Matthew 7:21-23


21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
 
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Neogaia777

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The answer is that the Holy Ghost gives out gifts, healers, workers of miracles…..then it is up to these people to use it. There power does not come from Satan or else would be fighting his own kingdom as Jesus said. As for Benny I have seen enough to believe he is false, because of things he said would happen and did not happen as he prophesized. Now we come to another subject, can someone who was once given the gift backslide and fall from grace but still use what was given them…….I think some would agree there are those out there that are in it for the power, fame and money….turning back to INIQUITY, and having their names blotted out of the book of life.


Matthew 7:21-23


21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Benny Hinn may have just got a little puffed up over his gift, give a person one supernatural gift, a little bit of power, and all of the sudden they think they have them all...

Benny Hinn clearly has a gift of healing, (and perhaps teaching) but not the gift of prophecy, (not a prophet) I think he just got a little full of himself and puffed up over the one gift he was given, and thought he could prophesy as well, but he was wrong...

We still cannot deny the fact that Benny Hinn has a supernatural gift of healing though, did he backslide and will he get into heaven?, I don't know?

As in the Bible verse you quoted, there will be many who can do powerful supernatural gifts and abilities that Jesus will deny knowing... Also I remember it says somewhere that if I have the power to move mountains (and perhaps perform miracles and cast out demons), but I don't love, I am nothing...

And in 1 John it says that anyone who hates his brother does not love, so if Benny Hinn hates anybody, then he is without love, and no matter how many supernatural acts he performs, Jesus may deny knowing him, I just don't know, only God knows his heart...

God Bless!
 
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Bobinator

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Miraculous "powers" in pastors/preachers, real or not?, from what source?

How do people explain pastors like Benny Hinn, or Rodney Howard Browne, having some kind of supernatural power over people that they claim is the Holy Spirit, but that the world is wondering whether or not they are being empowered by Satan...

Either way, it evidence of the supernatural, isn't it?

Thoughts? Comments?

God Bless!

Guess you'll have to judge a tree by it's fruit.
 
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South Bound

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Miraculous "powers" in pastors/preachers, real or not?, from what source?

Not real. The "powers" you're talking about were gifts given specifically to Apostles to verify their authority and the veracity of the Gospel. They ended with the closing of the canon. More to the point, the men you're talking about are not men of God, but wolves who have been allowed into the Church to fleece the flock.

How do people explain pastors like Benny Hinn, or Rodney Howard Browne, having some kind of supernatural power over people that they claim is the Holy Spirit, but that the world is wondering whether or not they are being empowered by Satan...

It's nothing a nigh club hypnotists doesn't do.

What part, specifically, do you believe is supernatural? The part where they go, "I'm sensing that there's somebody here named John. You're name is John, is it not? No? Well, God is telling me there's someone in your life named John. No, well his name starts with a 'J'. James or Jerry, perhaps?"

That's not supernatural. It's called "cold reading". All it is, is just throwing out random words until their body language gives a clue that the word means something to them. I used to be a salesman and employed the same tactic.

Is it the part where they command somebody to get up out of a wheelchair? You know those people are actors, right? That's why there are no documented cases of them actually healing anybody.

In fact, several years ago, the Trinity Foundation did an expose of Benny Hinn and discovered that three of his "miraculous healings" died soon after the show.

Come on. You're a smart person. Don't fall for this nonsense.

Either way, it evidence of the supernatural, isn't it?

No.

And, besides, you shouldn't be looking to miraculous events as evidence of the supernatural. That's what we have the Word of God for.
 
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Neogaia777

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Not real. The "powers" you're talking about were gifts given specifically to Apostles to verify their authority and the veracity of the Gospel. They ended with the closing of the canon. More to the point, the men you're talking about are not men of God, but wolves who have been allowed into the Church to fleece the flock.

So, you no longer believe people in this modern day age can be bestowed with supernatural powers and abilities that come from God?

It's nothing a nigh club hypnotists doesn't do.

There is some similarity between what hypnotists do, and what people with faith can have done to them (power of the mind/belief) Jesus asked many people "Do you have FAITH that I can do this, then they would say yes, and Jesus would oftentimes say to them "Go, your FAITH has made you well. Which can be the power of belief somehow opens up the mind to have mind over matter possibilities (if they are "open" to the fact of what the hypnotist OR FAITH HEALER can do, then it can happen for them

What part, specifically, do you believe is supernatural? The part where they go, "I'm sensing that there's somebody here named John. You're name is John, is it not? No? Well, God is telling me there's someone in your life named John. No, well his name starts with a 'J'. James or Jerry, perhaps?"

That's not supernatural. It's called "cold reading". All it is, is just throwing out random words until their body language gives a clue that the word means something to them. I used to be a salesman and employed the same tactic.

Is it the part where they command somebody to get up out of a wheelchair? You know those people are actors, right? That's why there are no documented cases of them actually healing anybody.

In fact, several years ago, the Trinity Foundation did an expose of Benny Hinn and discovered that three of his "miraculous healings" died soon after the show.

Come on. You're a smart person. Don't fall for this nonsense.

What about when they say "fire" or "Holy Spirit fire" and make throngs of people fall down, those can't all be actors, are they?


And, besides, you shouldn't be looking to miraculous events as evidence of the supernatural. That's what we have the Word of God for.

Why not?

Jesus said, unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe, I believe there's evidence of the supernatural in times past, and I personally have had some supernatural experiences of my own, in today's age that I believe is evidence of the supernatural, and I believe in the power of prayer having healed people in this modern day age...

God Bless!
 
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South Bound

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Why not?

Jesus said, unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe

Actually, He said it to one person, not "you people". And, as I said, nobody is arguing that Jesus and the Apostles did not do miracles.

In fact, if you go back and read my post, you'll see that I explained to you that the purpose of these miracles was to affirm their authority and to affirm the veracity of the Gospel, which is precisely what happened in this passage.

Second, He also said in Matthew 16 that it's a wicked an adulterous generation that seeks signs.

Third, what saves? Is it miracles or is it the preaching of the cross?

I personally have had some supernatural experiences of my own

How do you know?
 
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Neogaia777

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Actually, He said it to one person, not "you people". And, as I said, nobody is arguing that Jesus and the Apostles did not do miracles.

In fact, if you go back and read my post, you'll see that I explained to you that the purpose of these miracles was to affirm their authority and to affirm the veracity of the Gospel, which is precisely what happened in this passage.

Second, He also said in Matthew 16 that it's a wicked an adulterous generation that seeks signs.

Jesus also said "if you do not believe my words, then believe on account of the miracles themselves"

Third, what saves? Is it miracles or is it the preaching of the cross?

Both, as you said the purpose of the miracles was to affirm their (the apostles/disciples/Jesus authority and to affirm the veracity of the Gospel

How do you know?

How do I know? Well, let's just say I have many, many experiences where/when even my logical mind was led to conclude "That HAD TO BE GOD"

If you've never had experiences like these, then I would probably fail in trying to explain them, but let's say coincidental experiences that were way, way to coincidental to be just mere coincidence, coupled along with dreams connected to the coincidences, and voices connected to the coincidences and dreams, and signs and wonders in/though environmental forces, animals, and people, again, that were connected to the coincidences, dreams, and voices.

Times when I could clearly "feel" and was made well aware of a supernatural spirit's presence, the only problem I'm having now is deciphering whether it was a Holy presence, or an Unholy one, but either way "proof" to/for me of the supernatural spirit realm where God and Spirit's operate from...

God Bless!
 
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South Bound

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Neogaia777 said:
If you've never had experiences like these, then I would probably fail in trying to explain them, but let's say coincidental experiences that were way, way to coincidental to be just mere coincidence, coupled along with dreams connected to the coincidences, and voices connected to the coincidences and dreams, and signs and wonders in/though environmental forces, animals, and people, again, that were connected to the coincidences, dreams, and voices.

I see. Do these voices ever tell you to harm yourself or others?
 
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Neogaia777

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I see. Do these voices ever tell you to harm yourself or others?

No, but when I first started hearing them "outside" my head, not inside, when I first started hearing them I was in the process of coming to faith (about five years ago) they stayed about ten yards away from me, and they mocked me and what I was doing trying to mature in my faith, they bullied me by calling me names, and this was just when I was first maturing in my faith, and had not called upon Jesus name yet, one night, it was so bad, that I finally got on my knees and cried out for Jesus to save me, shortly afterward, I heard a voice right next to me, right beside me say one word and this voice spoke with authority and said simply "Go!" in a commanding voice, which was right next to me, and all the other voices that were mocking me, bullying me, calling me names, and making fun of me (a group of them) were silenced for about three months, after daily (nightly) occourances, the voice right next to me that commanded them to "Go!" made them disappear and stop occuring...

But three months later, I started to hear whispers afar off, like a television or stereo going off in another room, they wouldn't get as close to me as they did before, but were afar off whispers that I couldn't make out (about a hundred yards away from me), what I could tell is that these whispers were no longer focused on bullying me, mocking me, or calling me names, but they were discussing things (something) among themselves within my earshot, but far away so I couldn't make out what they were saying or discussing...

The voices still scare me, even though now their just whispers afar off... I keep a fan running on high every night so I can sleep so it drowns out the whispers, but it doesn't always work...

I believe the voices that came to me at the start were demons, and or Satan and his brood, but the voice that said "Go!" was Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit (God) and this was the only time I heard his voice, and it was just one word. I'm not sure about the source of the voices that returned in afar off whispers that I can't make out though...

I detailed some of my experiences in this thread if you wish to explore it:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7843548/

God Bless!
 
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dragongunner

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Actually, He said it to one person, not "you people". And, as I said, nobody is arguing that Jesus and the Apostles did not do miracles.

In fact, if you go back and read my post, you'll see that I explained to you that the purpose of these miracles was to affirm their authority and to affirm the veracity of the Gospel, which is precisely what happened in this passage.

Second, He also said in Matthew 16 that it's a wicked an adulterous generation that seeks signs.

Third, what saves? Is it miracles or is it the preaching of the cross?



How do you know?

It says the wicked and adulteress generation seeketh signs…..He did not say that signs were wicked or wrong.

Mark 16:17-18

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


I have seen many, many people healed of sickness….I being one of the them on several occasions. Miracles and healings and the above signs are still alive today.

I hope you don't paint all healers or miracle workers with the same broad brush?
 
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revrobor

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Miraculous "powers" in pastors/preachers, real or not?, from what source?

How do people explain pastors like Benny Hinn, or Rodney Howard Browne, having some kind of supernatural power over people that they claim is the Holy Spirit, but that the world is wondering whether or not they are being empowered by Satan...

Either way, it evidence of the supernatural, isn't it?

Thoughts? Comments?

God Bless!

"You shall know them by their fruit". If you are not sitting under their ministry don't worry about it. God will deal with them.
 
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