Miracles of the Bible not observed today

[Temirlan]

When I talk with Christians, or other beleivers, I often hear about prayer as a kind of magical tool capable of performing miracles. Usually what is meant by that, is for completely natural things to happen, such as finding a job or recovering from an illness. And even when a less probable event is prayed for, anyway, it is usually expected it'll be manifested in a series of very natural, non-miraculous events.

As we read about supernatural in the Bible, it's quite a very, very different world from today. God and his represantatives aren't hiding, but are very active. Miracles are clearly supernatiral. Unlike anything we have ever observed happening. God and his representatives are in direct and frequent contact with human beings. He is involved in grand and petty matters of peoples and individuals. We also read about an abundance of supernatural objects or objects of unknown technology capable of performing powerful creative or destructive functions.

Why suddently the world and the method of God's operation is different? The Bible gives no explanation. It starts and ends assuming this is the only way to be.

One extra-Biblical explanation I was once given is that there exist Dispensations of God, historical time periods when miracles and supernatural beings and objects are normality, and later, due to a different purpose and situation, they are all forbidden, as counter-productive, and God prefers to hide rather than being near and open.

Why the change? Your theories? Thank you! Looking forward to hearing your explanations.

 

[Gideons300]

When I talk with Christians, or other beleivers, I often hear about prayer as a kind of magical tool capable of performing miracles. Usually what is meant by that, is for completely natural things to happen, such as finding a job or recovering from illness. And even when a less probable event is prayed for, then still, it is usually expected it'll be manifested in a series of very natural, non-miraculous events.

As we read about supernatural in the Bible, it's quite a very, very different world from today. God and his represantatives aren't hiding, but are very active. Miracles are clearly supernatiral. Unlike anything we have ever observed happening. God and his representatives are in direct and frequent contact with human beings. He is involved in grand and petty matters of individuals. We also read about an abundance of supernatural objects or objects of unknown technology capable of performing powerful creative or destructive actions.

Why suddently the world and the method of God's operation is different? The Bible gives no explanation. It starts and ends assuming this is the only way to be.

One extra-Biblical explanation I was once given is that there exist Dispensations of God, historical time periods when miracles and supernatural beings and objects are normality, and then, due to a different purpose and situation, they are all forbidden, as counter-productive, and God prefers to hide rather than being near and open.

Why the change? Your theories? Thank you! Looking forward to hearing your explanations.

God has told us that the fervent prayers of a righteous man avails much and enables our faith to receive from God. I suspect we may conclude that we lack fervency and righteous lives. But praise God, that can change..... and will!

Blessing,

Gideon

 

[Not David]

When I talk with Christians, or other beleivers, I often hear about prayer as a kind of magical tool capable of performing miracles. Usually what is meant by that, is for completely natural things to happen, such as finding a job or recovering from illness. And even when a less probable event is prayed for, then still, it is usually expected it'll be manifested in a series of very natural, non-miraculous events.

As we read about supernatural in the Bible, it's quite a very, very different world from today. God and his represantatives aren't hiding, but are very active. Miracles are clearly supernatiral. Unlike anything we have ever observed happening. God and his representatives are in direct and frequent contact with human beings. He is involved in grand and petty matters of individuals. We also read about an abundance of supernatural objects or objects of unknown technology capable of performing powerful creative or destructive actions.

Why suddently the world and the method of God's operation is different? The Bible gives no explanation. It starts and ends assuming this is the only way to be.

One extra-Biblical explanation I was once given is that there exist Dispensations of God, historical time periods when miracles and supernatural beings and objects are normality, and then, due to a different purpose and situation, they are all forbidden, as counter-productive, and God prefers to hide rather than being near and open.

Why the change? Your theories? Thank you! Looking forward to hearing your explanations.

God does stuff with the purpose of salvation for the person. He is not a genie who makes wishes come true.

Plus, the story of the Saints is full of miracles.

 

[Not David]

God has told us that the fervent prayers of a righteous man avails much and enables our faith to receive from God. I suspect we may conclude that we lack fervency and righteous lives. But praise God, that can change..... and will!

Blessing,

Gideon

True, and the righteous one will look for God's will, not his own.

 

[Sanoy]

Why the change? Your theories? Thank you! Looking forward to hearing your explanations.

I believe that miracles happen today but I recognize the same drop in intensity as you. We actually find such drops in intensity in the Gospels as well, and they explain why. The majority of miracles happening today are in the mission field, in strugling nations turning themselves over to God. I believe those differences are due to the cultural backdrop of a region and it's effects on faith. In the Gospels, faith plays a role in whether healing occurs. In cities where faith was strong many miracles occured. In cities where it was weak, like Jesus's hometown in Mark 6:5, few miracles occured. I think Jesus reveals the reason for this in Matthew 11:21-22. That the greater revelation that one receives the more accountable a person is for their hearts response to that revelation.

 

[Temirlan]

God has told us that the fervent prayers of a righteous man avails much and enables our faith to receive from God. I suspect we may conclude that we lack fervency and righteous lives. But praise God, that can change..... and will!

Blessing,

Gideon

Have you ever experienced a true miracle? Not a natural event, no matter how unusual or unecpected?

 

[Temirlan]

God does stuff with the purpose of salvation for the person. He is not a genie who makes wishes come true.

Plus, the story of the Saints is full of miracles.

OK, God is not doing miracles because He's not manipulated by humans. But it seems He stopped altogether. The Saints are of the past, too.

 

[Temirlan]

True, and the righteous one will look for God's will, not his own.

Great. But that's no way an answer to my question.

 

[Temirlan]

I believe that miracles happen today but I recognize the same drop in intensity as you. We actually find such drops in intensity in the Gospels as well, and they explain why. The majority of miracles happening today are in the mission field, in strugling nations turning themselves over to God. I believe those differences are due to the cultural backdrop of a region and it's effects on faith. In the Gospels faith plays a role in whether healing occurs. In cities where faith was strong many miracles occured. In cities where it was weak, like Jesus's hometown in Mark 6:5, few miracles occured. I think Jesus reveals the reason for this in Matthew 11:21-22. That the greater revelation that one receives the more accountable a person is for their hearts response to that revelation.

Apostles performed pretty powerful miracles not depending on presence or lack of faith. I see no drop in intensity in the Bible. The OT, the NT.

You say miracles occur today, too, especially where there's great obstacles for Christianity to spread. Examples? The sun stands still or people are raised feom the dead? Or good old natural events (however unique or rare) interpreted as miracles?

 

[Sanoy]

Apostles performed pretty powerful miracles not depending on presence or lack of faith. I see no drop in intensity in the Bible. The OT, the NT.

You say miracles occur today, too, especially where there's great obstacles for Christianity to spread. Examples? The sun stands still or people are raised feom the dead? Or good old natural events (however unique or rare) interpreted as miracles?

We don't always know the level of faith in a given area unless it is explicitly revealed by the writer of the Gospel, and the writers very much reveal a varied intensity in both directions. That is a theological fact.

I don't know of any accounts where the sun stood still. I have heard of dead to life accounts but haven't really looked into them. That exhausts my two alloted categories.

 

[Temirlan]

We don't always know the level of faith in a given area unless it is explicitly revealed by the writer of the Gospel, and the writers very much reveal a varied intensity in both directions. That is a theological fact.

I don't know of any accounts where the sun stood still. I have heard of dead to life accounts but haven't really looked into them. That exhausts my two alloted categories.

Doesn't sound very convincing to me, so my original question stands.

 

[Sanoy]

Doesn't sound very convincing to me, so my original question stands.

What doesn't sound very convincing?

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

One extra-Biblical explanation I was once given is that there exist Dispensations of God, historical time periods when miracles and supernatural beings and objects are normality, and then, due to a different purpose and situation, they are all forbidden, as counter-productive, and God prefers to hide rather than being near and open.

I agree with your assessment. God is (generally) silent in that obviously miraculous way. No matter how much people get worked up, they cannot reproduce the freely spontaneous acts of the Acts! Shabby imitations won’t do.

 

[Temirlan]

What doesn't sound very convincing?

That miracles in the Bible experienced a sudden drop of intensity at some point, and that there are modern day supernatural miracles.

 

[Temirlan]

I agree with your assessment. God is (generally) silent in that obviously miraculous way. No matter how much people get worked up, they cannot reproduce the freely spontaneous acts of the Acts! Shabby imitations won’t do.

When did the miracles dry up and why?

 

[Sanoy]

That miracles in the Bible experienced a sudden drop of intensity at some point, and that there are modern day supernatural miracles.

Our source of information about miracles in the New Testament is actually the New Testament, and I gave you the verse in the Bible to back up my statement. I can add Acts 19 as well, and the fact that Paul was unable to heal his own friend Trophimus. The New Testament itself should be sufficient to convince you of what is contained in itself, though you can certainly sit there and refuse to be convinced.

The miracles you asked for are greater than those Chorazin received in Matthew 11:21-22. You can sit there with your arms crossed retorting "unconvinced" if you want but you exemplify the exact reason in Matthew 11:21-22 why such miracles are likely not happening.

 

[Temirlan]

Our source of information about miracles in the New Testament is actually the New Testament, and I gave you the verse in the Bible to back up my statement. I can add Acts 19 as well, and the fact that Paul was unable to heal his own friend Trophimus. The New Testament itself should be sufficient to convince you of what is contained in itself, though you can certainly sit there and refuse to be convinced.

The miracles you asked for are greater than those Chorazin received in Matthew 11:21-22. You can sit there with your arms crossed retorting "unconvinced" if you want but you exemplify the exact reason in Matthew 11:21-22 why such miracles are likely not happening.

The fact that somebody couldn't perform a miracle in one location, but next day could perform in another, is in no way an indication miracles stopped altogether, for good, like somebody up above flipped an off switch.

You say generic words, but you only confirm what I'm saying. Tons of super miracles in the Bible. No miracles today, not even the minutest ones. Nada. Only boring laws of Mother Nature, never ever broken. God went into hiding, skipping our planet Earth

 

[Acts2:38]

I often hear about prayer as a kind of magical tool capable of performing miracles.

With careful study of the scripture, I would say prayer is NOT a miracle, in the way most Christians fling that word around.

Prayer is a spiritual blessing to those who are "in Christ", example Ephesians 1:3.

As we read about supernatural in the Bible, it's quite a very, very different world from today. God and his represantatives aren't hiding, but are very active. Miracles are clearly supernatiral. Unlike anything we have ever observed happening.

Why suddently the world and the method of God's operation is different? The Bible gives no explanation. It starts and ends assuming this is the only way to be.

You are correct in stating that miracles, supernatural things, do not happen today, nor can anyone do them anymore.

1 Corinthians 13 tells us that "when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away"

Since Jesus is not a "that", it would be safe to say it refers to the bible/scriptures being fully completed. 1 Corinthians was written LONG before John's book of Revelation (the last book). The scriptures are the perfect word of God, 2 Timothy 3:16.

Miraculous gifts were also only passed on by apostles laying hands on people. Since the last apostle died (john) then no one can pass that on.

Also, miracles were to confirm the word of God. Since the bible is complete, the word does not need that confirmation anymore.

 

[jacks]

Good question, as you are probably aware many people say they have experienced miracles. And of course many things happen that seem to defy explanation. I'm assuming you mean some sort of grand, public miracle visible to all, that stands up to the scrutiny of a skeptical world community? Perhaps like someone saying "I'm about to perform a miracle; tune in at 11:00" and then parts a large body of water and walks through it? If that is what you mean, perhaps God just doesn't think it is necessary at this point in our spiritual development or knows that it would actually be counter to His plans to do so. I think miracles only occur when they serve God's purpose.

 

[Temirlan]

1 Corinthians 13 tells us that "when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away"

Since Jesus is not a "that", it would be safe to say it refers to the bible/scriptures being fully completed. 1 Corinthians was written LONG before John's book of Revelation (the last book). The scriptures are the perfect word of God, 2 Timothy 3:16.

Miraculous gifts were also only passed on by apostles laying hands on people. Since the last apostle died (john) then no one can pass that on.

Also, miracles were to confirm the word of God. Since the bible is complete, the word does not need that confirmation anymore.

Thank you. Dispensation of Grace, I heard it explained exactly as you just did. So Jesus and writing of the Bible did away with the need of the miracles, as no proof of divinity is required anymore. Makes sense as an idea. I don't see it supported as much in the Bible, as miracles are done right and left well before and during the NT times, with or without the Apostles' hand-laying.

Anyways. A new question. Why then Christians always expect miracles? There wasn't a single Christian, and I've met a lot of them, who would deny being able to make God perform a miracle for them right now. They firmly beleive in such possibility, and regularly pray for those miracles. Not that they ever get them. Are they confused? Shouldn't they be told that miracles are no more, just mundane laws of physics and chemistry? But would that maybe destroy the motivation to adhere to this faith? Absolutely no perks, like cutting corners of this life with their Big Daddy's gracious help?