Minimum Wage

[Second Phoenix]

I would like for every adult in the US to make at least $15 an hour. However, I just can't see how minimum wage makes sense. Companies only have so much money to spend on wages.

When wages go up, that makes hiring more difficult and now labor costs increase. As a result, there are fewer people being hired. This means that now there are not only people NOT producing for society, but actually taking away money from society through social services.

In other words, there is a bare minimum that society will have to provide, via employment or social services. When a person is not working, there is less overall output.

Without a minimum wage, we can make it easier to bring more people into employment. Lower employment means more demand for labor, which means companies will need to offer more money.

 

[Second Phoenix]

I am not advocating getting rid of it on libertarian values, but because we it seems more logical to get everyone employed as easily as possible.

 

[GutenbergPrintPress1454]

Minimum wage can really affect employment. I don't agree with minimum wage UNLESS
it is set to a low level.

 

[JoshuaCh1v9]

We had that arguement here about a dozen years ago.

If you bring in a minimum wage then unemployment will go up they said

We did. It didn't.

That arguement is bunk, and has been proven so in every country that has introduced a minimum wage

 

[Second Phoenix]

Can you show that logically or through any evidence?

I am not arguing against a minimum wage - I just see no logical reason why it is good for society.

 

[JoshuaCh1v9]

Can you show that logically or through any evidence?

I am not arguing against a minimum wage - I just see no logical reason why it is good for society.

It's good for society because living standards improve. People have wages they can actually live on.

I don't need to support a theoretical arguement. The evidence is plain. We brought in a minimum wage in 1999. Had it for 14 years now, and it has not led to job losses or increased unemployment.

In fact, employment levels were going just fine until the bankers got greedy.

 

[S.ilvio]

I really do despair when I read American (because that's where it tends to emenate from) Catholics who advocate openly for race to the bottom wage rates that only serves the rich to get richer while the unclean masses remain in their ghettos while grissing the mill of their high rolling, fat walleted betters.

Thankfully things are beginning to change in the States for the better.

In Europe, to varying degrees, the value of workers is recognised by society with a substantial minimum wage that gives men and women a standard of self worth that just doesn't exist among their American counterparts...

 

[JoshuaCh1v9]

I really do despair when I read American (because that's where it tends to emenate from) Catholics who advocate openly for race to the bottom wage rates that only serves the rich to get richer while the unclean masses remain in their ghettos while grissing the mill of their high rolling, fat walleted betters.

Thankfully things are beginning to change in the States for the better.

In Europe, to varying degrees, the value of workers is recognised by society with a substantial minimum wage that gives men and women a standard of self worth that just doesn't exist among their American counterparts...

+1

 

[Sword of the Lord]

The company I work for would so take advantage of no minimum wage, and everyone working for them would be homeless, living with someone, or never have lights or heat.

 

[sylverpiano]

As a business owner, The minimum wage laws are not a factor. I start a new hire at a wage level commensurate with their skill level. Entry level is more than $15.00 an hour. My average worker makes $25.00, plus benefits. I pay my people well because they are highly skilled, highly motivated and work very hard.

 

[Tallguy88]

As a business owner, The minimum wage laws are not a factor. I start a new hire at a wage level commensurate with their skill level. Entry level is more than $15.00 an hour. My average worker makes $25.00, plus benefits. I pay my people well because they are highly skilled, highly motivated and work very hard.

 

[Erose]

The problem with minimum wage isn't that the higher it is the less jobs out there. Minimum wage must be remember that it is meant to be an entry level wage, not a living wage. It was never intended to be a living wage.

No we have to realize what companies use the minimum wage. They are places like grocery stores, department stores, restaurants, gas stations, etc. These are bedrock businesses that everyone must partake in. So what happens when the minimum wage goes up? Well food prices increase, clothing prices increase, fuel prices increase and so on. So what really happens when the minimum wage goes up is a short period for those making a minimum wage where they see their paycheck stretch better, and then bam everything catches up and that paycheck stretches no further than it did before their wage went up.

But there is a side effect to this as well. Everyone making more than the minimum wage will begin to see that there paycheck not cover as much. Why because they are spending another $25 to $50 at the grocery store, the clothes they have to buy are more expensive, etc., etc.

So truly what happens when the minimum wage increases is that everyone who made more than minimum wage is in effect getting a paycut. Because the dollar figure of their paycheck doesn't mean as much as it used to. Then what happens is employees have to start adjusting paychecks to keep people or people move on, and they have to hire others at a higher salary. Either way it forces them to raise their prices, as well.

Grocery prices have skyrocketed over the last 10 years, and it isn't surprising that we have had quite a few minimum wage hikes during that time as well. Since 2007 we have had one every year, which when you add in the fuel price increases was well, we get a very bad economy.

 

[AMDG]

Just want to remind folks that when the "rich get richer", the can afford to employ more people (to allow them to get rich too--should they want to take advantage of the opportunity and work hard) plus give to charity.

Example? Try the secular Bill Gates of Microsoft. He didn't come into the business with a high paying job. Instead he had an idea which he developed in his parent's garage. The idea caught on. The business expanded. He had to build a place for all the expansion. He needed to hire more people (and as their skills developed, they were paid more so he could keep them working for him.) Many, many people profited by Bill Gates getting rich. Employees, Builders, etc. And along the way, he was able to donate a couple million dollars to different charities (hospitals, schools, etc.) so still more people benefited.

What if he was forced to pay people more than what he, as a business could afford and more than what the people were actually worth (until they eventually acquired the skill sets needed.) Well, that's pretty obvious. No Microsoft--he couldn't afford to leave his parent's garage. No many people benefiting. No charities benefiting.

The minimum wage helps no one. Rent, food, services will end up going up at the exact rate of the minimum wage hike so the people will be in the position they were before. Worse, because many folks will be priced out of the job market and therefore will not be able to acquire the skills they need in their entry level jobs.

How do I know? Well, one of my husband's duty stations was a little town that depended solely on the military base near it. Everytime the military would get a raise in pay (they ALL got the raise and it wasn't staggered), food, shelter, services in the town went up the EXACT amount of the listed pay raise. There was no way to "get ahead".

Raise the minimum wage, and you'll not only be paying fifteen dollars for a tiny fast food hamburger (because the businesses have to pass on the extra expense to customers), but the people will be in the same position they were before (because of raising prices) and many will be priced out of the job market since they don't have the necessary skills and businesses will not be able to afford to "train them" at a entry level salary.

There have been studies noting this. Guess most simply ignore the studies.

 

[JoshuaCh1v9]

As a business owner, The minimum wage laws are not a factor. I start a new hire at a wage level commensurate with their skill level. Entry level is more than $15.00 an hour. My average worker makes $25.00, plus benefits. I pay my people well because they are highly skilled, highly motivated and work very hard.

And you are to be applauded for that. However, few companies value their staff the way you do.

The minimum wage, in this country at least, helps and benefiits large numbers of low paid workers, a great many of them part time workers, and a high proportion of those women.

The company I work for would so take advantage of no minimum wage, and everyone working for them would be homeless, living with someone, or never have lights or heat.

This, sadly, is very true, and the minimum wage protects people from that

 

[JoshuaCh1v9]

The problem with minimum wage isn't that the higher it is the less jobs out there. Minimum wage must be remember that it is meant to be an entry level wage, not a living wage. It was never intended to be a living wage.

No we have to realize what companies use the minimum wage. They are places like grocery stores, department stores, restaurants, gas stations, etc. These are bedrock businesses that everyone must partake in. So what happens when the minimum wage goes up? Well food prices increase, clothing prices increase, fuel prices increase and so on. So what really happens when the minimum wage goes up is a short period for those making a minimum wage where they see their paycheck stretch better, and then bam everything catches up and that paycheck stretches no further than it did before their wage went up.

But there is a side effect to this as well. Everyone making more than the minimum wage will begin to see that there paycheck not cover as much. Why because they are spending another $25 to $50 at the grocery store, the clothes they have to buy are more expensive, etc., etc.

So truly what happens when the minimum wage increases is that everyone who made more than minimum wage is in effect getting a paycut. Because the dollar figure of their paycheck doesn't mean as much as it used to. Then what happens is employees have to start adjusting paychecks to keep people or people move on, and they have to hire others at a higher salary. Either way it forces them to raise their prices, as well.

Grocery prices have skyrocketed over the last 10 years, and it isn't surprising that we have had quite a few minimum wage hikes during that time as well. Since 2007 we have had one every year, which when you add in the fuel price increases was well, we get a very bad economy.

We've had min wage here for 14 years now and that has NOT been the case (and I spent a few years ON the min wage so I know of which I speak)

Prices have increased, but that is almost entirely due to the increase in the oil price.

 

[Boidae]

I know that without a minimum wage, when I was working as an EMT and moved to Upstate New York, my wage would have been much less than it was at $7.12/hr. I was making $11.51 in New Jersey.

They company paid the bare minimum it could to it's employees. Paramedics were o ly making a little over $9/hr. People working at McDonald's were making more than I was.

I was thankful for minimum wage.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

It's good for society because living standards improve. People have wages they can actually live on.

I don't need to support a theoretical arguement. The evidence is plain. We brought in a minimum wage in 1999. Had it for 14 years now, and it has not led to job losses or increased unemployment.

In fact, employment levels were going just fine until the bankers got greedy.

Well that depends on where you live. It costs a lot more to live in Boston or NYC than it does in Little Rock or Greensboro.

In addition, I wouldn't use Europe as an example of how we should value employment. Europe has a history of high unemployment. A clear fact is that people work hard and further their education due to incentive. This has suited the US well for hundreds of years.

The closer we have moved toward the European model, the more our workforce has seen a decline. We now have a large number of unemployed and those that have dropped out of the workforce. These are facts.

 

[Anhelyna]

It's no good Andy - the Americans cannot understand that with us, the minimum wage works - but then we do have the NHS [ with all its faults ] so everyone gets medical care , and a State Pension . and Sickness benefits , not to mention maternity benefits , child benefit - and all of these are available to all - unemployed and employed alike though they are to some degree means tested.

It's just a different system and mindset

 

[JimR-OCDS]

As long as there is greed, minimum wages will remain in place, but also have little effect in helping people at the bottom earn a living wage.


Perhaps the solution would be to have wage gap laws, where the CEO of a corporation can't make more than 25%, or some other figure, over the lowest paid employee ?



I remember reading how the wage-gap between top executives and employees in US corporations, was far greater than in other nations.

FYI, I'm just throwing out ideas here.


The bottom line is, without a change of heart, nothing will ever happen to close the gap between rich and poor.

I lost my job as a designer when the company sent all the design work to China. They didn't send the work there because they weren't making good profit with me, but because they could make more by eliminating myself and two other employees and paying a person in China $2500 per year do the same work. The manager that laid me off, got a bonus for cutting cost in the US office he was in charge of.


Jim

 

[MikeK]

Just want to remind folks that when the "rich get richer", the can afford to employ more people (to allow them to get rich too--should they want to take advantage of the opportunity and work hard) plus give to charity.

The rich have been getting richer for several consecutive decades. The gap between the rich and the poor has been increasing for several consecutive decades.