Minimum Wage - who was right

[iluvatar5150]

Well it's both.

In my individual case the company was not willing to correct for the problems the higher base pay was giving me, after all, it isn't really their problem, if the public demands a higher minimum wage then the public is going to have to live with it.

Again, WM volunteered to raise the base pay across the country regardless of what individual states were doing.

And WM's choosing to jerk you around on your schedule is entirely their doing. IME, this is a pretty regular thing with them - who knows, it may even be deliberate. They don't have to run things this way, but they do.

They're part of why I laugh every time somebody talks minimum wage jobs being good places to learn skills that prepare you to move up the income ladder. I've held several minimum wage jobs and every one was a mismanaged joke. In almost every case, there was no real training, no leadership, no pathways for advancement, no thoughtful insight into what we did and why we were doing it. At best, I was told to do a certain thing at a certain time. That's it.

And if I recall it was known that 11 dollars an hour was the point at which automation would be brought in to replace a lot of the jobs, so they know what the result was going to be.

And they still chose to raise the base pay across the country.

But even in the big stores, auto checkouts don't replace that many people - maybe 2-3 per shift. Each machine is MUCH slower than going through a regular checker, so it's not like adding 10 machines replaces 10 cashiers; and you still need a person to babysit the machines. Given Walmart's high turnover, they could easily handle that labor reduction through attrition alone.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Automation in retailing is a big change if you remember to include Amazon which is replacing a lot of workers in local retail stores.

The overall change is to save the shopper from paying for sales staff, which leaves the government in many cases to pick up the cost of the unemployed person for a while.

This transfer of costs is core to neoliberalism where the consumer can buy from where ever is cheapest to the customer, even though the money leaving the country is unlikely to ever come back and the now unemployed American worker is still going to need sustenance.

It saves the customer money while being detrimental to the country.

 

[MorkandMindy]

I guess my conclusion is raising the minimum wage could work well in the higher cost of living parts of the country, and may work in some situations and not in others (like mine!).

A core belief behind it though that it will pump more money into the economy and make everyone better off doesn't really make any sense in the type of economy we have, one I don't think we should have, but the 'share the wealth' and sundry other platitudes have a cost and it's us. Pump the money in and it will go straight out.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I guess my conclusion is raising the minimum wage could work well in the higher cost of living parts of the country, and may work in some situations and not in others (like mine!).

A core belief behind it though that it will pump more money into the economy and make everyone better off doesn't really make any sense in the type of economy we have, one I don't think we should have, but the 'share the wealth' and sundry other platitudes have a cost and it's us. Pump the money in and it will go straight out.

Albuquerque isn't an especially low cost-of-living area.

Also, I just looked up the minimum wage laws for NM and Albuquerque in particular and the minimum wage is not $11, but $9.35, and it only took effect a couple weeks ago:

Albuquerque Minimum Wage - 2020 — City of Albuquerque

IOW, the wage hikes had nothing to do with the minimum wage law.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Half of who? Unemployment is at record lows. Where I live the min wage was raised to 12.50 and there are plenty of jobs, especially min wage jobs.

How many of those jobs where you live are full time and permanent and have good employer benefits? In order to brag about the economy based on the unemployment rate, you must know for a fact that they're not temporary or seasonal jobs and that workers have excellent job security.

 

[Sparagmos]

How many of those jobs where you live are full time and permanent and have good employer benefits? In order to brag about the economy based on the unemployment rate, you must know for a fact that they're not temporary or seasonal jobs and that workers have excellent job security.

Whoa, slow down there. I’m not making claims about the economy or quality jobs, just refuting the OP’s claim that raising the min wage has reduced the number of jobs, or that people got laid off as a result. That’s it. This economy is full of crappy low wage jobs without proper benefits or protection.

 

[Sparagmos]

The point I made was we don't have a closed economy, and pumping money into our economy will not in itself fix it nor will rising consumer confidence.

Raising the min wage isn’t pumping money into the economy, it’s moving it from the owners to the laborers who generate profit. Nobody is “pumping” anything. The last 40 years or so money has been flowing from the bottom up, it’s time for a jubilee.

 

[Sparagmos]

Well it's both.

In my individual case the company was not willing to correct for the problems the higher base pay was giving me, after all, it isn't really their problem, if the public demands a higher minimum wage then the public is going to have to live with it.

And if I recall it was known that 11 dollars an hour was the point at which automation would be brought in to replace a lot of the jobs, so they know what the result was going to be.

As for 15 dollar an hour minimum wage, I doubt if they do know what the consequences will be.

It sounds like wal-mart has done a great job of convincing you that the minimum wage going up would be a horrible thing for you. The people at wal-mart here make at least 12.50 an hour, and there’s no more automation than in your store. Wal-mart should be providing you affordable healthcare, not forcing you to live on poverty wages so that you qualify for taxpayer funded healthcare.

 

[Sparagmos]

Automation in retailing is a big change if you remember to include Amazon which is replacing a lot of workers in local retail stores.

The overall change is to save the shopper from paying for sales staff, which leaves the government in many cases to pick up the cost of the unemployed person for a while.

This transfer of costs is core to neoliberalism where the consumer can buy from where ever is cheapest to the customer, even though the money leaving the country is unlikely to ever come back and the now unemployed American worker is still going to need sustenance.

It saves the customer money while being detrimental to the country.

Automation means we can reduce the workday. If less work is required to produce something, that is a good thing. It’s only bad because the owners are greedy. We can change that.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Automation means we can reduce the workday. If less work is required to produce something, that is a good thing. It’s only bad because the owners are greedy. We can change that.

Fewer hours = fewer dollars because it is an hourly wage. That is why I always say we must consider how many hours people work, not just whether they are employed or not, when judging the economy.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Fewer hours = fewer dollars because it is an hourly wage. That is why I always say we must consider how many hours people work, not just whether they are employed or not, when judging the economy.

Increasing automation is going to require a rethinking of our entire employment system and pay structure. There are a number of possible ways of handling it:

1. Hourly pay could rise to match the corresponding drop in hours. So if you work for 8 hours a day at $10/hour now, then if you end up working 4 hours per day because of automation, you might make $20/hour (or maybe slightly less)

2. More companies move to a salary system rather than hourly. So you get paid a fixed wage every month, and no one really cares exactly how many hours you work as long as your work gets done.

3. We adopt a universal basic income, paid for (at least in part) by those employers who are abandoning human employees in favor of robots.

 

[GodLovesCats]

The problem with #2 is many people have temporary jobs. Don't forget seasonal workers at places where holiday gifts and decorations are sold or produced. And what about people who are employed by agencies that offer temporary jobs instead of the companies where they work?

 

[Sparagmos]

Fewer hours = fewer dollars because it is an hourly wage. That is why I always say we must consider how many hours people work, not just whether they are employed or not, when judging the economy.

The Eight-Hour Day | Unions Making History in America
But if the hourly wage goes up, it doesn’t have to mean fewer hours = less wages. We got a 40 hour workweek by fighting for the same pay for fewer hours, we can go down to a 30 hour workweek and keep the same pay.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

The problem with #2 is many people have temporary jobs. Don't forget seasonal workers at places where holiday gifts and decorations are sold or produced. And what about people who are employed by agencies that offer temporary jobs instead of the companies where they work?

I never said that any one of those was a foolproof fix-all solution - I literally just thought them up in the five minutes it took to write the post.

Obviously not everything can be a salary-based job. But lots of jobs have shifted from salaried to hourly as companies have become more reluctant to cover benefits for their employees. Many of those jobs could transition back if we adopted a universal healthcare system, for example. There are lots of moving parts involved in any situation like this.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I think a single-payer health care system would help because employers would not have to provide all the full-time employees health insurance. One common complaint about the ACA is employers downsized just to pay employees mandatory health insurance and Walmart was accused of making its products cheap by not offering health care benefits. Another reason I want a single-payer system is workers can avoid losing health insurance when they lose their jobs or resign. But there is one thing stopping me short of the MFA: What will happen to the thousands of employees who work for private health insurance companies?

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

At work in retailing, a very successful retailer, a lot of pressure was applied by the public to raise the base pay.

It was raised to 10.00 per hour in 2017 and again to 11.00 per hour in 2018 and now half of us are out of work.

Doesnt the government help with school loans?
If you're working for so little. I would look into a better job.

 

[GodLovesCats]

No, the government does not help with school loans. The interest rates are high and students struggle for years to pay it off.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

I think a single-payer health care system would help because employers would not have to provide all the full-time employees health insurance. One common complaint about the ACA is employers downsized just to pay employees mandatory health insurance and Walmart was accused of making its products cheap by not offering health care benefits. Another reason I want a single-payer system is workers can avoid losing health insurance when they lose their jobs or resign. But there is one thing stopping me short of the MFA: What will happen to the thousands of employees who work for private health insurance companies?

We could retrain them for different jobs. The same idea as is used for coal miners.

 

[Erik Nelson]

base pay...was raised to 10.00 per hour in 2017 and again to 11.00 per hour in 2018 and now half of us are out of work.

You walk into Walmart

Gov't has imposed a "minimum price"

Nothing on the shelves is or can be less than $15

How do you feel? React? Just keep buying as much as usual? Or try desperately to economize & cut back??

Tipping Point - Why the $15 Min Wage Hurts America with Rep. Pete Sessions

 

[MorkandMindy]

It looks like the proposal aims to raise the purchasing power of the minimum wage to something like it was in 1956. What's wrong with that?

Medical costs are far higher than they were in 1956.