millennial views

[Tom Kirkham]

Just curious about what the distribution is for millennialistic beliefs within the members that post here. I am assuming anyone posting here would be a Reformist.

Thanks ><)))))*>

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

I tend toward the optimistic amillennial view.

 

[BrotherBob]

There seems to be three prominent views. Myself, I hold to a premillennialist view (Christ's second coming will occur prior to His millennial kingdom and that the kingdom is a literal 1000-year reign.)

I am currently studying scriptural postmillennialism (Christ will return after Christians, not Christ Himself, has established the Kingdom on this earth) and
especially amillennialism (the view that there is no literal millennium-a literal 1000-year reign of Christ on earth).

Should be some lively discussions on this thread.

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

There are four major views, two of those views are premillennial. There is historic premil and there is the Dispensational premill which began in the 1820's and is based on the heterodoxy teachings of Dispensatianal theology.

Kenith

 

[BrotherBob]

There are four major views, two of those views are premillennial. There is historic premil and there is the Dispensational premill which began in the 1820's and is based on the heterodoxy teachings of Dispensatianal theology.

Kenith

I stand corrected brother. I know within each category there are variations.

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

I stand corrected brother. I know within each category there are variations.

Brother Bob,

You you are correct, there are subsets to each major millennial position, but Dispensationalism is has a millennial view based on a radical departure of the churches understanding of what is Israel and what is the Church and how are they related, if at all.

In the traditional (orthodox) view you can can be an "a" - "post" or "pre." If you are a dispensationalist you must be a "pre" and you must part with what all the church (prior to 1820) believed concerning Israel and the church.

Kenith

 

[BrotherBob]

Kenith,

Some of the early church fathers distinguished between a first and second resurrection, and held that there would be an intervening millennial kingdom in which Christ would reign with His saints upon the earth. This view may be found in Papias, Barnabas, Hemas, Justin Martyr, and Tertullian (all from the second century). By the time of Luther and Calvin (maybe due to the influence of Augustine) rejected the doctrine of an earthly millennium. As far as dispensation-covenant doctrine I find myself somewhere in between.

 

[oworm]

I tend more toward Amillenialism based upon Prof John Murray and Cornelis Venema's exposition of the Olivet discourse

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

Kenith,

Some of the early church fathers distinguished between a first and second resurrection, and held that there would be an intervening millennial kingdom in which Christ would reign with His saints upon the earth. This view may be found in Papias, Barnabas, Hemas, Justin Martyr, and Tertullian (all from the second century). By the time of Luther and Calvin (maybe due to the influence of Augustine) rejected the doctrine of an earthly millennium. As far as dispensation-covenant doctrine I find myself somewhere in between.

Hey Brother Bob, wave: back attcha)

I've read all that we still have of Justin Martyr's works and agree with you that he has what today we we call a premillennial view. I would add that his view of the relationship between the Church and Israel is along orthodox (i.e. anti-dispensational) lines.

Dispensationalists used to claim Justin as one of their own, but now days he his considered to hold to what they refer to as "replacement theology."

Justin's view of the relationship of Israel and the church is the view of the whole church up until John Darby "discovered" his dispensational teachings.

Later,
Kenith

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

Just curious about what the distribution is for millennialistic beliefs within the members that post here. I am assuming anyone posting here would be a Reformist.

Thanks ><)))))*>

A-mill, partial preterist.

 

[AMR]

A-mill, partial preterist.

Yup! Me, too.

 

[JM]

Amillennial Historicist.

 

[BrotherBob]

One of the problems I have with the amillennial view is the use of an inconsistent (dual) heremeneutics , namely, interpreting unfulfilled differently from fulfilled prophecy. According to amillennialism non-prophetic Scripture and fulfilled prophecy are interpreted literally or normally, but unfulfilled prophecy is to be interpreted spiritually, or non-literal.
The prophecies concerning Christ's first coming were all fulfilled literally. Therefore, I think, prophecies concerning Christ's second coming should also be expected to be fulfilled literally.

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

Brother Bob,

I dont think that is correct. It was prophesied that Elijah would come to make the way straight for Messiah. That was fulfilled but not literally, because Elijah was not returned to earth but it was fulfilled by John the Baptiser because he came in the spirit and power of Elijah.

We also read in the Old Covenant Scriptures that the New Covenant is literally to be made with the Houses of Israel and Judah (which is one reason old time disp's said there were two New Covenants) but we read in the New Covenant Scriptures that we (the Church) are in the New Covenant and or its heirs.

Just a view non-literal prophesies we see that have been fulfilled.

Kenith

 

[BrotherBob]

Brother Bob,

I dont think that is correct. It was prophesied that Elijah would come to make the way straight for Messiah. That was fulfilled but not literally, because Elijah was not returned to earth but it was fulfilled by John the Baptiser because he came in the spirit and power of Elijah.

We also read in the Old Covenant Scriptures that the New Covenant is literally to be made with the Houses of Israel and Judah (which is one reason old time disp's said there were two New Covenants) but we read in the New Covenant Scriptures that we (the Church) are in the New Covenant and or its heirs.

Just a view non-literal prophesies we see that have been fulfilled.

Kenith

Excellent response. Not to clog up this thread with the long response
I'm starting a new thread on Malachi's prophecy -Elijah's return. You'll
have to give me a couple of days to organize the scriptures. Look for
it coming soon to reformed theology.

 

[cajunhillbilly]

optimistic amillenial, partial pretreist here

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

optimistic amillenial, partial pretreist here

I did not mention partial preterist in my first post, but that fits my views also.

Kenith

 

[the particular baptist]

Amillennial Historicist.

Ditto. What he said.

 

[JM]

Ditto. What he said.

It's good to know I'm not alone.

 

[cajunhillbilly]

It's good to know I'm not alone.

I know what you mean. At the Lakepointe Baptist Church I attend I am one of the few amills there. It gets me when I hear the dispys going on and on about rebuilding the temple, etc.