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Matthew 25:31-46 shows that at the return of Jesus Christ the final judgment, eternal kingdom takes place.I am still waiting to hear somebody who believes that there will be no millennium (amillennialist)...... explain to me:
Isaiah 2:3
Isaiah 42:4
Isaiah 61:5 Isaiah 61:6
Zechariah 8:23
Zechariah 14:16
Habakkuk 2:14
Surely you have an explanation for these verses...... they are in your Bible ..... do you simply ignore them as if they were not there ?
I would love to hear what you think they mean...... and unless all of you are amillennialists ...... there are probably others reading our thread that would like to know what they mean also.
False .There will be earthly 1000 year kingdom to follow the second coming , you continue to delete the scripture that proves your error .There will be no earthly 1000 year kingdom to follow the second coming.
False .There will be earthly 1000 year kingdom to follow the second coming , you continue to delete the scripture that proves your error .
Your continued ignoring of the scriptural text that has been given to you by many people many times but you reject the scripture of Jesus . telling you that there will be humans on earth after the 1000 years that satan is locked away in the pit , but those that are human will be on earth , satan has already deceived you , your misunderstanding of scripture plagues you . it does not matter if you post the entire bible in your post it still says that after 1000 years satan will be loosed to deceive people , the immortal cannot be deceived proving that they will be mortal humansHow are your mortals going to survive the "flaming fire"?
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
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How are your mortals going to survive the "flaming fire"?
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
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Hebrews 11 shows the remnant "Elect" church, those whom God Foreknew and were chosen.
Appears you disregard the remnant "Church"and want to make two different groups of people saved by grace?
Those that receive Jesus Christ have inherited the promises and covenants, they are children of the promised seed.
Ezekiel 39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Ezekiel 39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.
Ezekiel 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.
12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.
Revelation 19:21 is apparently the fulfillment of Ezekiel 39:4. Revelation 19:21 involve the physical 2nd coming of Christ.
Ezekiel 39:9-10 appears to be in preperation of the following in Isaiah 2:4, and that these verses indicate---and they shall burn them with fire seven years. That has to mean once Gog and his multitude are given unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. When did Revelation 19:21 indicate that happens again? Was it not as of the 2nd coming?
Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Once Revelation 19:21 has been fulfilled, the text in Ezekiel 39:12 indicates---And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.
In light of all the above, how and why? If the entire planet goes up in flames like you apparently believe, why burn weapons for 7 years, why didn't the weapons simply go up in flames with the rest of the planet? Why bury the remains for 7 months in order to cleanse the land if land on the entire planet was engulfed in flames? And finally, how are birds of every sort, and the beasts of the field, expected to devour these dead bodies if the entire planet has gone up in flames?
And you are trying to be logical here with your post? If you are trying to be logical, why are you ignoring Scriptures that apparently prove you wrong? Maybe all of the above doesn't prove there might be mortals remaining on the earth following the 2nd coming, but it does at least seem to prove that it is ludicrous to assume the entire planet and everyone on it gets burned up alive once the 2nd coming happens. So if you are wrong about that part, maybe there are some other things you are wrong about as well. Maybe you're also wrong about no mortals surviving the 2nd coming.
It is their norm , they have been asked many many times to offer their interpretation and explain in their own words , but they refuse and simply post most scriptures with no explanation ., even posting scriptures that have no bearing or relevance to the topic in discussion ,OK...... now truth7t7 merely gives me a passage from Matthew and the statement that 'There will be no earthly 1000 year kingdom to follow the second coming.'and BABerean2 gives me a whole lot of passages from Revelation and one from Hebrews.So ..... my dear readers and viewers..... you notice that neither of them have actually TACKLED THE MEANING and INTERPRETATION of not even a single scripture that I gave them in my list..... and you must be wondering why ?
So ..... my dear readers and viewers..... you notice that neither of them have actually TACKLED THE MEANING and INTERPRETATION of not even a single scripture that I gave them in my list..... and you must be wondering why ?
Matthew 25:31-46OK...... now truth7t7 merely gives me a passage from Matthew and the statement that 'There will be no earthly 1000 year kingdom to follow the second coming.'
and BABerean2 gives me a whole lot of passages from Revelation and one from Hebrews.
So ..... my dear readers and viewers..... you notice that neither of them have actually TACKLED THE MEANING and INTERPRETATION of not even a single scripture that I gave them in my list..... and you must be wondering why ?
BUT.... I on the other hand will not resort to their tactics by continuing to pour on more scriptures that I know they cannot or will not touch..... instead....
I will explain the proper interpretation of the Revelation, Hebrews and Matthew passages that they have chosen to use..... in my subsequent postings.
Since they continually refuse to engage any passages I give them..... I will expound and explain their passages and in so doing, the error in their Biblical interpretation will become apparent to you.
I do not do this for them.... because I fully expect them to protest .... and hurl more verses that they think suit their purpose.....
The reason I will take the time to explain and expound the passages is for others in the future who will read this thread and perhaps those that are reading right now but not commenting.
In all forums there are far more people reading that writing.... lots of people following but not contributing.
These will perhaps not be fully acquainted with the history of pre-millenialism versus amillennialism versus post-millennialism.....
I note with interest that there are "safe houses" on this site for both pre-millennialism and amillennialism which are now the competing views (post-millenialism having fallen out of favor.... or should I say been discredited by world events).
I do not need a 'safe house' ...... I am fully able to show from the scriptures the fallacy of the amillennial idea..... and what's more I can do it from the amillennialists 'favorite' verses..... I don't expect them to change their minds.... but I do know that others who are willing to objectively look at this will definitely be more inclined to go with the pre-millenial view once all the evidence has been examined.
I did Eschatology at Bible School and received a certificate in it..... having read numerous texts and debated this on other occasions I will do what I can in here as time allows (this could take months or even years if I go into the Hebrew and Greek... how deep down the 'rabbit hole' do you want to go ?).....
In earlier postings I had appealed to the more important Christian discipline of LIVING the Word.... rather than debating.... discussing.... arguing .... over the Word.
I assure you that 90% or more of the 'true' church of Jesus Christ .... the Bride of Christ.... know nothing of these eschatological and doctrinal contradictions..... they may not even be aware of the doctrines of the church they attended while in the flesh..... simple, humble souls who LIVED the Word totally surrendered to the Savior.
Nevertheless 'although not many wise, mighty, etc. are called' (1 Corinthians 1:26 ) ...... to those that are called, He yet grants even more wisdom and insight as they are able to bear it...... we did not make ourselves so there is nothing inherently wrong with being wise or talented.... but we must use these gifts to His Glory upon the earth..... so think of it not as 'my viewpoint' .... because it was only after I examined 'all sides to this' in light of the Word that I took any viewpoint at all.... originally I knew nothing of all this.
I am nothing but dust..... God must be Glorified in all that I do....
When I first read the Bible from cover to cover as a teenager...... nobody had yet impressed upon me all their various 'doctrines'...... I did not read it with any pre-suppositions.... concordances.... commentaries..... and it was an American Standard Version with no marginal notes.... references .... or maps and added stuff.
I read it as I would read any other book about which I knew NOTHING..... but I always preceded my reading with the prayer 'LORD this is YOUR BOOK please reveal to me out of it what you have to say to me'..... I did this because my mother, a simple humble woman, told me that was what I should pray before reading it.
Since I have been blessed with an almost photographic memory and a vivid imagination.... many times in later years when trying to decide concerning doctrines and dogma..... I have returned to that foundation..... what was the sense of it... when I read it with no preconceived ideas.... and only a simple child's prayer asking GOD to instruct me from HIS BOOK
Ezekiel 39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Ezekiel 39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.
Ezekiel 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.
12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.
Revelation 19:21 is apparently the fulfillment of Ezekiel 39:4. Revelation 19:21 involve the physical 2nd coming of Christ.
Ezekiel 39:9-10 appears to be in preperation of the following in Isaiah 2:4, and that these verses indicate---and they shall burn them with fire seven years. That has to mean once Gog and his multitude are given unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. When did Revelation 19:21 indicate that happens again? Was it not as of the 2nd coming?
Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Once Revelation 19:21 has been fulfilled, the text in Ezekiel 39:12 indicates---And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.
In light of all the above, how and why? If the entire planet goes up in flames like you apparently believe, why burn weapons for 7 years, why didn't the weapons simply go up in flames with the rest of the planet? Why bury the remains for 7 months in order to cleanse the land if land on the entire planet was engulfed in flames? And finally, how are birds of every sort, and the beasts of the field, expected to devour these dead bodies if the entire planet has gone up in flames?
And you are trying to be logical here with your post? If you are trying to be logical, why are you ignoring Scriptures that apparently prove you wrong? Maybe all of the above doesn't prove there might be mortals remaining on the earth following the 2nd coming, but it does at least seem to prove that it is ludicrous to assume the entire planet and everyone on it gets burned up alive once the 2nd coming happens. So if you are wrong about that part, maybe there are some other things you are wrong about as well. Maybe you're also wrong about no mortals surviving the 2nd coming.
It is their norm , they have been asked many many times to offer their interpretation and explain in their own words , but they refuse and simply post most scriptures with no explanation ., even posting scriptures that have no bearing or relevance to the topic in discussion ,
There is no future 1000 year earthly kingdom found in scripture, post them two at a time.Hello seventysevens,
Thank you for joining the discussion..... I am showiyou have made this observation and I am sure others who are reading but not posting are also coming to this same conclusion...... I attempt to discuss certain specific verses..... and they come back with totally unrelated Scripture and without showing how it applies to what I have written.
Anybody who reads this thread..... whether now or in the future..... can easily see this..... the record speaks for itself much louder than anything that I or they have actually said.
I am perfectly willing to explain the real meaning of their passages..... looking at the context..... going back to the root meaning of the Greek or Hebrew words if required IN SEARCH OF A REASONABLE EXPLANATION THAT DOES NOT VIOLATE OTHER SCRIPTURES..... I did such exegesis with Matthew 21:43 and absolutely NOBODY challenged or even noticed that post...... just went on and on throwing up other scriptures with no attempt to reconcile them.... because of our universal, fundamental conviction that the Word does not contradict itself (it may only 'appear' to do so on the surface.... but as we really get into it such apparent contradiction is readily resolved) ..... this may be entirely intentional on God's part..... for He has said 'that those who seek Him must do so with their whole heart' (Jeremiah 29:13)...... and the Word is a 'two-edged sword' which will cut those who use it improperly.
If we really RESPECT the Word we will not be satisfied with 'verses that seem to contradict each other' but we will harmonize all of Scripture in such a manner that everything can be explained...... the principles we use to exegete the passages must be consistent ..... we cannot choose one method in one place and another method somewhere else... otherwise it becomes totally arbitrary... and we cannot tell what it sayeth.
The problem with amillennial theology, eschatology and soteriology is that there is not this bedrock foundation of logical hermeneutics .... and as a result of this ..... there is literally confusion in the amillennialist camp..... as many 'interpretations' as they are people doing the interpreting.... and the absolute impossibility of rationally explaining large chunks of the Word.... so they are simply avoided in the hope that the people they are trying to 'convert' don't even know of their existence..... and since most people have never actually gone through the entire Bible in SEQUENCE and/or REMEMBERED what they read ..... these YOUTUBE videos 'explaining' the so-called flaws of sound church teachings find a ready audience and host of blind followers..... who love the sensational aspect of ......"you have been lied to all your life.... what you think is true is all wrong" ..... do you know how many millions swallow that .... hook, line and sinker ?
There has been a massive upsurge in 'conspiracy theories' and 'hidden knowledge' videos by people looking to cash-in on Youtube popularity by capturing the attention of a gullible public..... I am amazed at what people are willing to 'believe'.
It's 'open season' on sound doctrine my dear brother.
For the persons holding to the amillennialist position... consider this .... there are at least 1,845 references in the Old Testament and 318 references in the New Testament to the promise of an earthly kingdom with a literal Messiah ruling the world from His throne in Jerusalem.
That's a lot of verses to reconcile with your 'favorites'...... so get cracking and I look forward to reading some really creative 'explanations' ...... that will keep this thread going for the next 3 years.
Have a wonderful day everybody..... I love all of ya ..... whether readers of posters..... controversial or otherwise.
Rule #1 you must respond with a quote of my original post, no one sided debate.So that's great debate.t7.....
So start explaining the passage in Revelation chapter 20 where Satan is bound for a time (oops... it actually SAYS a thousand years)..... and then released again for a season to go out and deceive the people once again.
Now we know that Satan has never been bound up to now..... so it must be future.... if it was so simple as you say..... what the point of letting him out again..... and who are those people that he is going out to deceive once he is let out ?
And please start explaining those 2,000+ passages throughout the entire Bible that I mentioned in my last post.
You can start with the verses I mentioned in post #138
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